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Working girl - 7/11/2008 11:05:00 AM   
evadne


Posts: 49
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters and Mistresses,
Greetings girls,

I wanted to springboard off of the 'realities of keeping a girl thread' to bring up a specific issue that I have been personally struggling with for some time now.  And although I have never read 'Beasts of Gor', Master Tim provided a quote that directly mentioned the topic.  

“Can she work outside the compartments?” asked Audrey.

“If it is permitted by the master,” I said, “and it does not in any way compromise her slavery.” I smiled. “Some women,” I said, “wear to their work the garments of a free woman but, when they return to their compartments, don as they must the silk of a slave, which is their true condition.”


Before I got into Gor, I was a professional career woman.  After being involved in Gor for over 3 years now, I am struggling to figure out how to mentally deal with the transition from slave, to professonal during the day, back to slave again.

The issue, for me, is that especially in Gorean slavery, we are taught that we are chattel, we are kept in such a state of submission, it is a struggle to figure out how to deal with any responsibility in the real world that requires us not to be that way. 

What kind of job, here on earth, would not in any way compromise her slavery?  Most jobs require a person to be assertive, make decisions, etc.  Using these attributes do compromise her slavery... especially gorean slavery which is more complete than other lifestyles in which the girl is only slave to her Master.

This is a real mental struggle for me, as I do want to remain true to my nature, yet I need to work and make decent money to survive.

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,
~evadne

< Message edited by evadne -- 7/11/2008 11:06:21 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 11:07:41 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello evadne,

Are you owned now? 

Take care,

Liz

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 11:47:05 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 1600
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings evadne. I don't see why there should be a conflict. When you go to the grocery store are you not your masters slave? Then why does anything change when you go to work? Unless your master works under you? Ownership is not dependant on distance. When you go off to work you are still his. Being assertive at work to others other than your master  don't change anything for you really. If it pleases your master for you to work then you do your masters will.

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 12:05:46 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello Blacksword,

I thought about different answers for her.   But really IF she is owned, she should ask her owner these questions.    At that point there is only one opinion that would matter to her, his.  If she isn't owned....why worry about it?  It's no one's business what she does for a living.  And then if she is ever owned, - well you get my idea here.

Take care,

Elizabeth

(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 12:17:39 PM   
Anarrus


Posts: 475
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings girl,

Not too long ago there was a similiar thread asking much the same though worded a bit differently. Search it out if you'd like to read the thoughts there.
Bottom line is you do what pleases your owner.

Be well

Anarrus



_____________________________

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."...Goethe
"Send lawyers, guns and money" ..Warren Zevon

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 12:27:11 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Quick reply:

Hopefully you will get some sound advice though I'd second that Liz's advice to talk to your owner is by far the best. My issue was just the opposite, my slavery compromised my job. R took care of it by not altering my slavery but by altering my work environment so it was more complimentary to the way he keeps me. I would bring this to your owner's feet and ask him for help.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 1:26:38 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The issue, for me, is that especially in Gorean slavery, we are taught that we are chattel, we are kept in such a state of submission, it is a struggle to figure out how to deal with any responsibility in the real world that requires us not to be that way. 

What kind of job, here on earth, would not in any way compromise her slavery?  Most jobs require a person to be assertive, make decisions, etc.  Using these attributes do compromise her slavery... especially gorean slavery which is more complete than other lifestyles in which the girl is only slave to her Master.

This is a real mental struggle for me, as I do want to remain true to my nature, yet I need to work and make decent money to survive.


I have four issues with this.

1) you use "chattel" in the sense of worthless, and that's simply not the case. A girl has many uses, and she is of value to her owner--or he wouldn't own her.

2) I can think of many jobs that would be fine. After all, I'm gone most of the day much of the year, and a girl could do many things during that time. When I am home, I'm often working. Also, alone time is good too--just so it isn't always that way.

3) What you describe is essentially no different that what a vanilla couple must face--if they never see each other, they don't have much of a relationship.

4) your last point seems to indicate you're on your own. If that's the case, there's no issue here. Should you become owned, you and your Master will work out the appropriate approach, just as any couple would.

Tim

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/11/2008 1:29:11 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 2:09:22 PM   
evadne


Posts: 49
Status: offline 		Hello Mistress Liz,

Yes I am owned.  I do speak to him about it, and he is working with me to help me overcome the mental blocks I am having.

It seems to be an easy answer, if you are not Gorean... you are not a slave to anyone else, so you do the job to the best of your ability, including being assertive and 'tough' when needed. In doing so on the job, I am pleasing to Him.

Somehow, though, it is a struggle for me... and I guess you're point is right on Mistress... no one else can really guide me through this but Him.   I suppose it is an issue each woman must be honest about and discuss with her Master... if she feels a job is negatively impacting her submission, and look to Him for direction on how he wants to deal with it, since He in fact, is the one leading her on the journey.

Thank you Mistress,
~evadne

< Message edited by evadne -- 7/11/2008 2:21:03 PM >

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 2:18:53 PM   
evadne


Posts: 49
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Tim,

Thank you for your response. I wasn't really addressing the 'away from each other' issue with work.  I was just addressing the 'character traits' required on the job vs. a submissive nature, and how to deal with almost 'flipping the switch' on an ongoing, daily basis.  Or if the swich can really get flipped at all, once you get to such a submissive state, it is difficult to do. 

Sincerely,
~evadne

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 2:25:52 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3650
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		May I recommend a service-oriented job... Administrative Assistant (Senior AA, Exectutive Assistant). These jobs are challenging, under the right circumstance -- they require attention to detail, extreme awareness of both one's environment and the individual(s) that one is responsible to care for, and allows the expression of service. Not only that, but for a person who has experience in the business world, there is also the possibility of bringing a substantial paycheck, which I am guessing would be both helpful and pleasing.

I know of a couple of women who have found fulfillment as both slaves and administrative support -- and who have been able to see their Master (or Mistress) represented in their service to their boss at work.

Firestorm


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 3:26:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

Geez, my last slave owned her own business, employees and all-----

Life doesn't come to us in neat little baskets. We make it and earn it.

Also, Norman stresses at several points the three key qualities in a slave----intelligence, beauty, femininity.

Doesn't exactly fit the checkout girl at 7/11 (necessarily).

;-)

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 3:57:10 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evadne

Greetings Master Tim,

Thank you for your response. I wasn't really addressing the 'away from each other' issue with work.  I was just addressing the 'character traits' required on the job vs. a submissive nature, and how to deal with almost 'flipping the switch' on an ongoing, daily basis.  Or if the swich can really get flipped at all, once you get to such a submissive state, it is difficult to do. 

Sincerely,
~evadne


As mentioned on another thread, you might look into the qualities of the girl Eta, a slave who was certainly in charge, yet certainly a slave.

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Working girl - 7/11/2008 7:58:59 PM   
OTRDad


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		Hmmmm, in such cases you have the reality of real time conflicting with the fantasy created by one man. Or is it fantasy. The issues created are the conflict between your private life and public. It isnt easy. But it can be done, my simple advice is that you step away and out of the box, and look at the situation from different perspectives, this is something my FC must do at times. I have talked to buisness professionals who have the same trouble, they handle it by making the defined line of where they are free to be who they are and where they must be for the public eye. Your Master should help you with this, define the boundries, the limits that must be set. Unless he wishes you to be 24/7 these lines will become a necessity. Simple ones would be when you leave the house to go to work you mentaly subvert the slave, but once home free yourself from that stricture and become what he wishes you to be. I wish you well with this.

I walk in the shadows and watch, only those daring the darkness will find me.
Be Well, Drive Safe
Dragon Rider

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Working girl - 7/12/2008 4:45:49 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evadne

It seems to be an easy answer, if you are not Gorean... you are not a slave to anyone else, so you do the job to the best of your ability, including being assertive and 'tough' when needed.




This isn't exactly true, not being a "slave "to everyone else doesn't mean you are not submissive to other people, in fact some are very submissive to anyone in authority over them or even perceived authority or they are such people pleasers that they have trouble trying to please everyone they come in contact with. That's me..I try and make the decisions that will best please the other people, I never care about myself only what will please the other people so they don't get upset with, put out by, or angry at me. I have trouble dealing with anyone in authority, I can't say "no" very easily to anyone..so not being a "slave" to everyone doesn't mean much when you break it down...the only difference is R keeps me on a real short chain so I'm only focused on pleasing him, only submitting him to the extent he can control it.  He doesn't want to eliminate that drive in me to please but it was proving hazardous to my health in the workplace( people placing me in positions of authority over others and piling more and more work on me because I can't say "no" etc.). If he didn't step in,  he'd have a slave who was overwrought and upset all the time because she didn't know how to please 10 people at once who all wanted different things. I'm not assertive unless really backed into a corner of being spread to thin..I do not like people upset with me and loathe confrontation of any kind. So being owned isn't the cause of the struggle, an internal desire and drive to please everyone in autority is the more likely culprit.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Working girl - 7/12/2008 10:35:30 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16522
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

Yoiu know, time and time again I see some version of this theme pop up on various threads: "There just isn't time."

Yet, every one of these girls has time to read and post on the forums.

I'm just saying.

Best,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Working girl - 7/15/2008 6:34:48 AM   
seababy


Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

May I recommend a service-oriented job... Administrative Assistant (Senior AA, Exectutive Assistant). These jobs are challenging, under the right circumstance -- they require attention to detail, extreme awareness of both one's environment and the individual(s) that one is responsible to care for, and allows the expression of service. Not only that, but for a person who has experience in the business world, there is also the possibility of bringing a substantial paycheck, which I am guessing would be both helpful and pleasing.

I know of a couple of women who have found fulfillment as both slaves and administrative support -- and who have been able to see their Master (or Mistress) represented in their service to their boss at work.

Firestorm



I'm very interested in peoples response to this post.
Thanks evadne for bringing this up as a topic for discussion.
I'm not Gorean and my knowledge of Gorean philosphy is limited, so my view point may not be entirely suitable for a Gorean slave, but here goes.
In terms of being submissive natured when I've been in a position of authority at work I  found it was wearing me down despite enjoying the challenges and liking being able to pay my bills! I was stressed and unhappy, "flipping the switch" really wasnt working for me.
Rather than try and go against my nature I adapted my thinking. There are two kinds of people at work, the people with authority over me (The Free) and those who I have authority over (fellow slaves *grin* ).
Its made it easier to be assertive in the right ways at work and it kicks into my service mentality. I love it when I know that something I have done has really helped out someone at work. Ok so I do have to imagine some of the guys under my authority as "girly slave types" or Id never be able to be direct them, but what they dont know wont hurt them. (ok so I suspect that part wont get Gorean stamp of approval)
I agree with CallaFirestorm as far as perfect submissive career positions to have, what a wonderful way to express your nature.
Good luck on your journey.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Working girl - 7/17/2008 5:46:28 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6908
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		evadne,

I can't help but think that the subject line of the thread contains an answer that should fit right in....

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to evadne)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Working girl - 7/17/2008 1:55:16 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 898
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

evadne,

I can't help but think that the subject line of the thread contains an answer that should fit right in....

Health,
al-Aswad.



Tal Aswad,
Wellll, I have no idea of what the laws are like on that subject in Your neck of the woods...but in the U.S.of A (with the exception of a few sparsely populated counties in Nevada) being a coin girl will get you an all expense paid vacation at the illustrious gray-bar hotel. To say nothing of the risks involved not only to the girl, but to her Master. Jeff Foxworthy makes an excellent comparrison between such girls, and rental cars... "anything that's been driven that much, and that hard; you just realllly don't want to put your key in!"

                                                          I wish you well,
                                                                                 Shreve

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Working girl - 7/17/2008 5:04:10 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		Here are a bunch of jobs that I would consider to be appropriate for a gorean slave  (In no particular order)

1.  Waitress (not bar tender) 
2.  Secretary/administrative assistant: 
3.  Stripper  (Yeah, I know most find it empowering - but it doesn't have to be.)
4.  Any job in a kitchen except the master chef.
5.  Dog walker
6.  Maid
7.  Fluffer for porn
8.  Rickshaw driver (real job in NYC - they use a bicycle to pull tourists around.)

(in reply to ShreveportMaster)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Working girl - 7/17/2008 5:11:12 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I just have to ask.. why not a bartender..

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to StrongSpirit)
Profile   Post #: 20
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