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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 8:27:21 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The intent is to live life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I'm simply making the point that the books are like the bible. You can cherry-pick them to say almost anything you want them to. They are full of superfluous crap that only served to vary the plots.

But the intent is what should be sought.

This I can agree with-to it's fullest potential. Rather than as a stunted parody of that potential.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 8:38:46 PM

OrionTheWolf

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I believe your conclusions are based upon assumptions, which is where I see the miscommunication occuring. Life does not begin or end with the word of Norman, or Tarl. It is merely better understood when put in a context that some identify. If life were stunted to just the series, then Goreans would never shit or piss.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 8:52:22 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

They are full of superfluous crap that only served to vary the plots.

You are being unrealistically dismissive. It is not Lange's habit to write "superfluous crap" of any kind. It is true that the books return to the major themes of the philosophy in many different personal and cultural contexts, but the rest of your statement is starting to sound like it's about you.

K.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 8:53:24 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

They are full of superfluous crap that only served to vary the plots.

You are being unrealistically dismissive. It is not Lange's habit to write "superfluous crap" of any kind. It is true that the books return to the major themes of the philosophy in many different personal and cultural contexts, but the rest of your statement is starting to sound like it's about you.

K.

What is the particular point being made in "preist kings" then?

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 9:01:06 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

What is the particular point being made in "preist kings" then?

When did we establish that Priest-Kings was written in order to make some particular singular "point"? Or rather, when did you establish that? And on what basis?

K.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 9:01:21 PM

opposingtwilight

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Well, think about it ... What stopped man on Gor from tech. advancement? The Priest Kings with their blue flame death stuff.

If men on Gor had advanced in the same ways as men on Earth, there wouldn't have been much of a reason to write about them.

There had to be some explanation of why they didn't ever figure out how to make a gun when they -did- make some pretty darn cool medical advancements like age stabilizing serum (or whatever they were called) and slave wine and etc.

< Message edited by opposingtwilight -- 8/15/2008 9:02:53 PM >

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Post #: 46

RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 9:04:05 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

Well, think about it ... What stopped man on Gor from tech. advancement? The Priest Kings with their blue flame death stuff.

If men on Gor had advanced in the same ways as men on Earth, there wouldn't have been much of a reason to write about them.

I liked the way that the alien race objectified *all* other beings as mere "animals".

And how a slave's performance was stressed with them, over emotion. It was a pretty pure expression of a total authority dynamic. A bug had no desire to mate with an animal, it just wanted jobs done.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 9:10:22 PM

ShreveportMaster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Then why not take the ideas and use them-but refuse to refer to yourself as "gorean"?

Norman's Chronicles of Gor embody a view of the world and of masculine and feminine human nature that in my opinion captures reality. I did not "adopt" Norman's view, I agreed with it. But the books articulated it more fully than I had ever given thought to doing, and gave it a name. I claim that name, because I share that view of the world and human nature, and because saying so allows people of like mind to come together while saving everyone else a lot of trouble.

Kirata

Tal K,
Spot on! I could not have said it better Myself. That answer should be made a sticky under "Why do you call yourself Gorean"

I wish you well,
Shreve

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Post #: 48

RE: "In the books..." - 8/15/2008 9:16:30 PM

Leatherist

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And guys? I DID read up through at least book ten.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/16/2008 11:11:16 AM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I'm simply making the point that the books are like the bible. You can cherry-pick them to say almost anything you want them to. They are full of superfluous crap that only served to vary the plots.

But the intent is what should be sought.

Actually, this point shows that PEOPLE "are full of superfluous crap" when they choose to so narcissistically and falsely justify their already engrained assumptions, evidence be damned.

There is nothing wrong in fiction with an unreliable narrator---it's a common device, even in the best fiction. The author assumes the reader is an equal who can see through that to the points illustrated.

Every one of us engages in such careful discrimination daily---we don't entirely believe the speaker, but we wade through to pull out the parts we can substantiate by other means to arrive at the facts.

Even children are taught to watch cartoons by separating reality from fantasy--but that doesn't mean important themes don't emerge (at least at times--been a while since I've watched cartoons).

As one famous poetry essay puts it---"imaginery gardens with real toads in them." Gardens are crafted, not entirely natural occurences---but they really certainly on nature and nature will take over despite the best intent of the cultivator.

Live well,

Tim

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/16/2008 11:15:59 AM >

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/16/2008 9:18:32 PM

Cherylmazana

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Priest Kings is a very interesting book, many philosophers like to have their characters entering caves and coming out knowing something new.

If you look at the Priest Kings as being there for a philosophical reason as many anthropomorphic animals are and not just a giant bug in a sci fi book you can come up with some interesting theories as to their purpose.

My own favourite is they are there to show the side of humanity that is obsessed with laws and order, the side that dislikes change and is rigid. Those who would see us still living in caves rather than embracing new technology, and the struggle between wanting everything to remain the same forever and the change that is necessary to prevent stagnation and ultimately death.

Everyone has a place and laws to follow and you do not step out of that place, life becoming a machine with people as cogs within it.

It all depends on how you read the books.

Cheryl

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/16/2008 9:24:37 PM

Leatherist

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"Priest kings" rather reminding me of aspects of Orwell's "1984"

I wonder if Lange was trying to escape from the rigidity of the entire Gorean system he created as well in that book. How the humans rather mimicked the bugs in unreasoning structure?

Such as the caste system......

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/17/2008 6:09:25 AM

Luther6

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First, I think Priest-Kings of Gor was partially written to continue Norman's thematic connection to Burrough's John Carter of Mars series. There are several significant connections between "Priest-Kings of Gor" and Burrough's "The Gods of Mars."

Second, Priest-Kings of Gor also contains plenty of other information which helps support and explain Gorean philosophy. I think one of the more important quotes is near the end of Priest-Kings, when Om, the High Initiate of Ar, speaks to Tarl and explains the rationale for the Initiate Caste (p.300-301). I also think you can find many quotes in Priest-Kings pointing out the general flaws and failings of man. One just needs to look beyond the surface.

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RE: "In the books..." - 8/17/2008 10:25:38 PM

Cherylmazana

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That’s a good point Luther, when I first read the books too many years ago I groaned at the start of book 2, the ploy was so obvious a copy of Burroughs and since I had read and enjoyed Burroughs before Norman I was not impressed. Not sure just dressing in jewelled straps would be comfortable though. (What is it with men and naked women lol)

But we al have to start somewhere and they do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Cheryl

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Post #: 54

RE: "In the books..." - 8/18/2008 3:41:32 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

"Priest kings" rather reminding me of aspects of Orwell's "1984"

I wonder if Lange was trying to escape from the rigidity of the entire Gorean system he created as well in that book. How the humans rather mimicked the bugs in unreasoning structure?

Such as the caste system......

Sigh.

Read more than ten books. Then we'll talk.

Not a slight. I mean seriously. Finish the series. You'll find it instructive.

Tim

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