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Release - 8/25/2008 3:24:05 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Several of the latest threads have touched on the totally owned slave, what is expected of her, what she should expect, and what the limits the Master might place on himself or if she is actually controlling him.  The topic of willing a slave, sharing, etc. all assume complete ownership, the ability to do with them as you will, even if it is something that she finds difficult.

Let me bound the topic with these two caveats:  I am really only talking about the slave that you believe is totally yours.  Unpoachable, completely focused on your wants and needs, happily committing any act that might be ordered.  I am also going to make the assumption that due to the structures in our society (I mean the larger society, not what we might wish was reality) certain things are unwise, illegal, or just plain stupid to demand of a slave.  Examples would be drinking poison, cutting off her arm and other things that might be brought up when this thread eventually travels to the absurd.

So, here is the topic:  A couple of posters have owned slaves in the past, but don't currently have any.  Or they have moved on to someone new.  Or they released the slave due to some action or incompatibility.  So, if at one time, you completely enslaved a woman, took responsibilty for her ownership and all that that entails, and theoretically follow the Gorean ideals...What are the situations that would or did cause you to tell her to be on her way?  For the slaves, if you have been released or begged release, why? 

I can think of only a handfull of situations that would make me consider release of my girl (but I also keep my cars untill they can't be fixed and I am admittedly a bit of a pack rat).  

FW, This really isn't a question that you have the experience to answer, because if you are free now, you probably weren't ever a totally owned slave (my own predjudice, I don't think the two veiwpoints are compatible).
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 3:57:18 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1584
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings Ph0enixF1re....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

<snip>

So, here is the topic:  A couple of posters have owned slaves in the past, but don't currently have any.  Or they have moved on to someone new.  Or they released the slave due to some action or incompatibility.  So, if at one time, you completely enslaved a woman, took responsibilty for her ownership and all that that entails, and theoretically follow the Gorean ideals...What are the situations that would or did cause you to tell her to be on her way?  For the slaves, if you have been released or begged release, why? 

FW, This really isn't a question that you have the experience to answer, because if you are free now, you probably weren't ever a totally owned slave (my own predjudice, I don't think the two veiwpoints are compatible).


There is some things you are missing here and they are fundamental points to your argument. Most slaves, in fact almost all, are never completely enslaved by their owner. Sometimes this is the choice of the owner, sometimes it is the inability of the owner to do so. I think most often it is the latter. Thus, it is not so difficult for the slave to be released or to be given/sold/transferred to a new owner.

In my own case, I have no intention of taking a slave as far as I know can be gone. I have owned slaves I know will move on after a time. My goal and intention is to prepare them for their next Master. That is much of what I do. Yes, I also enjoy them while they are with me. <grins>

Most women who want to be slaves are looking for love as much as for servitude. They want a Mister more than a Master. Eventually they will get what they are looking for. This group will almost never go deeply into slavery. They serve out of love and for love. Some want both about equally. They can go much deeper, possibly as deeply as can be gone into surrender, especially if the love is reciprocated. The last group has service as their main focus. Yes, they often do come to love their Master. That is almost unavoidable in a consensual slave. My experience is that this group has the easiest chance of surrendering the deepest to a Master. That does not mean it will happen. They can serve even men they don't care much for and serve well.

Just as the mindsets and intentions of the slaves vary, so do the mindsets and intentions of those who would own slaves. Some just want easy sex and a bit of housecleaning. Some want a very submissive lover. Some want someone they can control and dominate to release whatever is inside of them. Some, like me, are teachers and trainers and is as important as any other part of ownership. The reasons are to many to know.

In my case, I release when the slave will go to a long term Master or she is no longer training with me. No, it is not always easy to do so, especially when you have owned a slave for years, but sometimes, men don't think only of what they want but what is best.

Be well....

Malkinius



_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is beauty.

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 5:23:36 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Exactly the kind of thought I was looking for, thank you.  I agree that few women will ever approach a total slave.  I would assume though, and please correct me if I am wrong, that the slaves you are training or have trained, knew at some point early on that the time with you was bounded, and they would be passed on or released when they had attained some level of submission or training?  However, even if they knew that the time was bounded, during that time, you owned them as completely as possible, correct?   Yours is a pretty good reason for release....They are going to a situation that is better suited to them or at least have the tools to find that situation. 

I'll add it to my list

(in reply to Malkinius)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 5:30:55 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

FW, This really isn't a question that you have the experience to answer,



Greetings PhoenixFire,

Your thinking would be flawed then.
Personaly I have *owned 2 slaves in my life, that would be considered real. at least IMO, meaning, not just an online ownership.
The first slave I owned was co owned when I was FCed, when My Companionship came to an end, I kept the girl and the other slave was owned souly by me for over a yr.
My reasons for releasing them are simple. the first was released because she had found a  man that she felt could hold her in a total Mastery and made her feel her submission so completelt that it literaly made her heart flutter and she finally felt ready to be worthy to serve him. ie I had done my job . then released her to go live her life as it was naturally meant to be lived.
the second slave...well..was worthless and a major waste of my time, not gonna get into details.
So, I feel FW can and do have the experience to participate in your question. Not all FW of course, but there are more then enough to be considered a worth while participant.

I wish you well,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 6:10:17 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Maashatti,
Thanks for playing, but no....You may have owned a slave, but for the purposes of the discussion as I framed it, you have no input.  The question was asked of the Masters and slaves.  Since you are neither, it's not valid input.  Now, if you have experience from a Master and how he dealt with the question, I would be interested.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 6:18:53 PM   
Trevelyan


Posts: 528
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Mountain View, CA
Status: offline 		Ph0enixF1re,

So that I can better frame my answer, which, if any, of the Gor books have you read?

Trevelyan

< Message edited by Trevelyan -- 8/25/2008 6:19:16 PM >

_____________________________

"In short the differences between the men of Earth and those of Gor were almost certain to be primarily cultural, and not physiological."
Mercenaries of Gor

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 6:21:34 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		All of them.  Also, a number of other things that Norman wrote.

(in reply to Trevelyan)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 6:27:57 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 8570
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~

If the cost of owning me outweighs the benefit of keeping me, I have no doubt he'll release me. It is in my best interest to make sure the benefits of keeping me are very high while the cost remains very low.

High costs would be things like temper tantrums, excessive expenditures which aren't in keeping with his budget, pestering him when he wants to be left alone ect.

_____________________________

۩ "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." ۩
~Oliver Wendell Holmes~

(in reply to Trevelyan)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 7:07:02 PM   
slavetaboo


Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Ph0enixF1re,

I was released once as I was given away from one owner to another. I believe that I will never understand why. I can tell you that I hold a deep respect and admiration for that man even though I felt traumatized by the events. I will even confess that I tried to hate him and wished that I could. I could not. I would have rather had those moments as his than to have never had them at all.

I attempted to fulfill my previous owners wishes with my new owner for two months. I began to realize that I was now the property of a man who did not master me and who did not want me. I did not have it in me to hold myself in slavery even though I tried so desperately to do so out of hope in pleasing my previous owner. I realized he was not coming back for me. I begged release which was immediately granted.

I was and remain to be a changed person after the experience of this ownership and of this release. Sometimes I wonder to myself if I will ever be as carefree as I once was. It disappoints me that I don't believe I will.

It is my hope that I might be found pleasing for answering your very personal question though I did worry of what others might think or say in response. I know my answer is both honest and heartfelt. In no way do I intend to cast a shadow of question over either man as I still respect the one who did not master me and would die for the one who did.

slavetaboo

_____________________________

For I long for a man with nests of wild things in his hair.

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 7:19:35 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Now, if you have experience from a Master and how he dealt with the question, I would be interested.


Im not sure I understand your question here.

if you mean,Have I experienced being Mastered by a man?..yes I have. I was a slave when I began learning and experiencing Gor. I have experienced from an online viewpoint and offline. So yes, I do understand it plus I still feel my first post was valid, but obviously, that is only my opinion.

I wish you well,
Maahsatti

PS. When I was released, I was made a FW by a man who was and still is I believe in good standing with the Gorean community and the men within it.Although He does not use online as a way of communication with the Gorean community anymore and has not for many years. Due to all the BS and what Gor online has turned into

PSS. Maashatti,
Thanks for playing,

I do not play at this.



< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 8/25/2008 7:26:48 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 7:36:08 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Maashatti,
My very question is why you were released as a slave, not why you decided to release your slaves.  I see the enslavement by a FW (if it is even a natural state) as fundamentally different from enslavement by a Man, which is why I put the caveat on the question.  I assumed that as an active member of the community, Masters that you may have known would have come up against this situation and you may be able to impart their point of view.  That was what I meant as "experience by a Master."

slavetaboo, I appreciate your honesty.  Your confusion is exactly what I want to understand....what causes a Master to release a girl?  What is the motivation behind trading/selling/releasing once you have a well trained and pleasing slave?

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 7:48:59 PM   
Trevelyan


Posts: 528
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Mountain View, CA
Status: offline 		Ph0enixf1re

I have been wrestling with my answer, and your rephrasing of your question has made it easier for me.

I own a slave because she has a satisfactory level of value to me, or because I believe I can bring her to a satisfactory level of value, for the level of effort I am willing to invest to master her.

Changes may occur in my life that have nothing to do with the slave that make me unwilling or unable to invest the same level of effort in mastering her. 

I may become convinced that the level of effort required to keep her at or bring her to the level of value I desire is more than I am willing to invest.

Trevelyan

_____________________________

"In short the differences between the men of Earth and those of Gor were almost certain to be primarily cultural, and not physiological."
Mercenaries of Gor

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Release - 8/25/2008 8:08:55 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings PhoenixFire,

Alright, I  understand where you are coming from now. Thank you for clarifying.
He released me and made me a FW because he felt that was my true nature and how i could better serve this community.
I hope that makes sense for you.

I wish you well,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 3:10:52 AM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Maashatti,
It absolutely makes sense, and would be valid reason for release.  No point in keeping a slave if she isn't one, can't be made one (and it's still consensual because of all those silly laws), or isn't ready to make that leap yet.   Perhaps a topic for another thread.....How does a former slave adjust?  I don't remember the situation...someone with a photographic memory could help but something about once the brand was applied a woman was forever a slave.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 8:29:17 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 16506
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Phoenix Fire,
Your question about how an unowned slave adjusts has been a rather indepth discussion on the slave thread recently.  FYI.

peace,
sunshine 

_____________________________

¿me preguntas por que compro arroz y flores? compro arroz para vivir y flores para tener algo por lo que vivir.
~Confucio

Yes, I am a wonton hussy.

Head Hib Harem Hottie

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 1:42:40 PM   
Ph0enixF1re


Posts: 91
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Sunshinemiss,
Not so much how an unowned slave adjusts, but rather how a Freed slave adjusts to her role as a Free woman.  That may have been covered as well, but I don't remember seeing it.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 8:10:54 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 898
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline 		 Tal PhoenixFire,
FYI, a freed slave is not necessarily a Free Woman. I think it was Braveheart who coined the term nominally free, which is a girl who has the nature of a slave, and will not be happy except as a slave, but who is unowned at the moment. Sometimes also reffered to as a freeneck, or a stray. There is a considerable difference between being unowned and Free.

                                                                          I wish you well,
                                                                                                  Shreve

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 8:20:27 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Shreve,
 
Personally i think of myself as more of a free-range slave....i like the open air
 
live well,
 
phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to ShreveportMaster)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 8:21:58 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 898
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline 		which would explain the high beams

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Release - 8/26/2008 8:24:26 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShreveportMaster

which would explain the high beams


Indeed, Master, it's cold at night now..

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to ShreveportMaster)
Profile   Post #: 20
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