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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/28/2008 10:05:35 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

I think I have asked before, because I think I read in one of the books that when a FW messes up she can be "face stripped" and treated as a slave would be treated...when it comes to an environment like this...what are the real and genuine consequences for our actions?

Lithium,

There is a difference, even in the books, between the threat of face-stripping and the reality of how FW, in general, appear to have been treated. While a FW -could- be face-stripped and enslaved, it is more likely that she would be given the opportunity to correct her behavior and refrain from making the same mistakes again.

My experience with the Gorean world came during my early years with the House that I am still with. During that time, while EB was alive, the House was run as a Gorean household. At the time, SR was EB's Free Companion. Though she is, and always has been, a strong, forthright, and direct woman, she -did- maintain civility and decorum, especially on the occasions when she found it necessary to provide EB with information that might -- redirect- some direction he'd set himself in.

On only -one- occasion did she ever do something that caused EB to remind SR that she was a woman, and subject to his discipline, regardless of her opinion. It impressed me, at the time, that she retained her dignity, despite the discipline, managed to accept her complicity in her situation, served her time under EB's constraints, and returned to her status in the household without rancor.

In the end, for the most part, according to the books, there were 40 Free Women to every Gorean slave, and in general, unless she's given a reason to be treated otherwise, aside from a simple mistake or the occasional venial error in judgment, a Gorean Free Woman is regarded according to her behavior, and face-stripping is an extreme punishment. While the possibility exists, it is unlikely that it was often used, and even less so among those practicing the Gorean way of life on Earth in our modern times.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 9/28/2008 10:06:01 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/28/2008 10:14:41 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

You're not the only one who's noticed this. I actually think it's a shame that she's so negative because she has lots of interesting things to say. I'm sure lots of people miss that since those nuggets of wisdom tend to be introduced in the context of "you all who are actually living this life are doing it wrong; that's not the way things worked in my (failed) relationship a decade ago."

I really do wonder why she continues to advocate things that obviously *didn't* work for her and her former Master.

There are many reasons why a situation may end that have nothing to do with the success or failure of the relationship. Also, just because some aspects of a relationship did not work and caused the end of that relationship doesn't mean that -everything- about the relationship wasn't working. Just as an example, though I was trained in Gorean style, our household is no longer Gorean. It has nothing to do with 'failure'. We no longer have a male 'head of household', due to the deaths of the two key male members of our House. Since we are on Earth, and since SR and I are both strong, dominant women, and have no intention of entering into Companionship again (the chances of our finding compatible men to do so with are less than slim to none), it seemed.... inappropriate to continue to claim something that we cannot practice. We did not "fail"... we evolved in a direction that no longer included the core of Gor.

That -also- does not automatically cause all that SR and I -learned- during our years as a functioning Gorean household to disappear. We have the same information, knowledge, experience and resources as we did then... only the composition of our household has changed.

It is important to consider one's words, and to consider the accuracy with which one speaks. It is also important not to make assumptions when one does not have full information on which to base that assumption.

Calla Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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Post #: 42

RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/28/2008 6:34:05 PM

xXLithiumXx

Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

I think I have asked before, because I think I read in one of the books that when a FW messes up she can be "face stripped" and treated as a slave would be treated...when it comes to an environment like this...what are the real and genuine consequences for our actions?

Lithium,

There is a difference, even in the books, between the threat of face-stripping and the reality of how FW, in general, appear to have been treated. While a FW -could- be face-stripped and enslaved, it is more likely that she would be given the opportunity to correct her behavior and refrain from making the same mistakes again.

My experience with the Gorean world came during my early years with the House that I am still with. During that time, while EB was alive, the House was run as a Gorean household. At the time, SR was EB's Free Companion. Though she is, and always has been, a strong, forthright, and direct woman, she -did- maintain civility and decorum, especially on the occasions when she found it necessary to provide EB with information that might -- redirect- some direction he'd set himself in.

On only -one- occasion did she ever do something that caused EB to remind SR that she was a woman, and subject to his discipline, regardless of her opinion. It impressed me, at the time, that she retained her dignity, despite the discipline, managed to accept her complicity in her situation, served her time under EB's constraints, and returned to her status in the household without rancor.

In the end, for the most part, according to the books, there were 40 Free Women to every Gorean slave, and in general, unless she's given a reason to be treated otherwise, aside from a simple mistake or the occasional venial error in judgment, a Gorean Free Woman is regarded according to her behavior, and face-stripping is an extreme punishment. While the possibility exists, it is unlikely that it was often used, and even less so among those practicing the Gorean way of life on Earth in our modern times.

Calla Firestorm

Calla,

I thank you for clearing that up for me. I appreciate you taking the time to respond honestly, and with a straightforward manner.

Well wishes,

Lithium

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/29/2008 7:16:20 AM

dawntreader

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

I have a few questions from you girls, be you Free, single, slaves, what have you, and I am hoping to get a wide variety of answers...Or at least some food for thought.

Greetings Lithi.

i think i qualify under your generous umbrella although aside from a submissive nature for Dominant men, i do not fit any labels except that of a journeywoman.

When i began my journey, i was often told i was a slave by those that desired me to be so and then chastised when i did not fit the preconcieved mold. i have allowed myself to feel like a failure many times. Yes it hurts to be found inadequate and undesirable and my feeling have been hurt more than there are tissues to dry my tears...but i have learned

Curently, i have served 2 seperate Mistresses at the request of the Dominant Men in my life at those times. i enjoyed both experiences, as much for the uniqueness of the situation and the caliber of the Women. However, this could never be a longterm situation for me as i am wired toward Male Dominance and the primary influence behind my service was the men i served.

Sexuality is very important to me and all my relationships with Dominant Men have had that at the core. Service only, while very admirable to me by those that do, is not in my genetic make-up and i feel very little sexual desire for women ( and yes, i have experienced them )

i do believe in Women leaders and guides who would obviously have need of dominant personalities. i see myself in this role in several of my current obligations and duties. However, it does not negate my desire for the arms of the Dominant Man~

i also realized during these periods of service - both sexual and service only, that i am not wired with a slave-mindset as i see here on the Gorean forums or even the BDSM side. While i do agree slavery is dependant upon the Mastery of the Man, there must be love for me as in all thing in my life. There is nothing more important to me than love - not even dignity and honour. Love is worth serving and so i do....in many ways and all it's forms.

i do wish you well with your "sub"...my journey has been worth it and will continue to be so - but so painful in the parts i tried to be what i was not for the sake of pleasing another. When we realize this life is not a dress rehearsal and the first act has come and gone with us unaware, it is quite a dose of reality...there is no time to be anything except yourself~

pax et lumina,
j

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/29/2008 5:32:35 PM

xXLithiumXx

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j,

Thank you for your reply.

I have found in my own journey that many would like to stop me, or detur me, or change my path, feeling that I do not have the right, or that I have not passed some secret right of passage. I do not let them discourage me, or change my steps and stride upon this path to learning and self discovery.

I agree, from the aspect of a woman, not so much as from the aspect of a Free Woman, or any "life style" aspect, that it is nice to have the arms of a strong man around you, some one to buffer you from the world, and even at times from yourself. But more so, just to remind you that you are a woman and it's okay to be fragile, or to be cared for.

I agree with the statement that long term service to a woman from a female slave would be difficult in that, there are many aspects that could be left wanting. It can be an extreamly erotic experience, but it can also be a very trying one, as I have learned, because emotions come into play, and not all women can deal with the emotions of another female.

I think, also, that women do need to take a more dominant role as guides, leaders and teachers of female slaves, and even to that end, of male slaves if for no other reason to prepare them for the service to a man, or even to the woman (how ever that may work for them.) as women do tend to be natural teachers and can alter the way that they teach to get the best from a person. That is just in my experience and I would consider that a matter of perception.

I think, and it seems to be common here, and from what I can tell in general, that it is difficult for a woman who is heterosexual, to submit to another woman, and that could be the issue I am having, in combination with the fact that I do tend to train more like a slave than like a sub, in this instance. So, I can see there are things I need to adjust and I have learned from this thread. More so, I have learned from my exposure to the people with in it.

So, again, and I dont think I can say this enough for the shared thoughts and emotions, as to most I am thought to be a stranger, thank you for sharing with me, thank you for being candid with me.

Well wishes,

Lithi

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement

You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/30/2008 8:21:08 AM

dawntreader

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx

j,

Thank you for your reply. ...

..... So, again, and I dont think I can say this enough for the shared thoughts and emotions, as to most I am thought to be a stranger, thank you for sharing with me, thank you for being candid with me.

Well wishes,

Lithi

You are welcome

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 9/30/2008 4:21:16 PM

kimaya

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Greetings Mistress Lithi,
Here are my answers to your questions. This has been an interesting thread thank you for starting it & encouraging participation. :)

Do you have days where you feel you do nothing right? even if some one is standing over you telling you that you are?
-- I do have days I feel I do nothing right. Sometimes even if Master says I am doing things right, its hard to really see that I am. But I am getting better at dropping the negativity and focusing on the fact that if I'm NOT doing something right - Master will tell me.

Do you get emotional when you get corrected? And if so, why? What makes that better for you?
-- I do get emotional. I get upset, frustrated at myself, etc. I'm not sure there is a way to make it "better" for me other than trying to learn from my mistakes so I don't get corrected for the same thing again.

How do you feel the best way to correct or be corrected so that your feelings dont get hurt may be?
-- I can honestly say that Master has never hurt my feelings by correcting me. I hurt my own feelings by beating myself up over it. Really Master doesn't correct me to try and hurt me, he corrects me to try and improve me as a slave, so I just try to focus on that and learn from it.

When it comes to service of a Mistress, versus service of a Master, do you feel there is a broad difference? What kind of difference do you see? Is it better? Or worse?
-- I don't feel there is a difference in general service, aside from all Free regardless of gender having their own personal preferences.

Do you hope for different things from a Mistress versus what you would hope for from a Master?
-- Not really - I still hope my service is pleasing

Is it harder to see a woman as a Dominant figure versus a man?
-- Maybe this is a case of semantics, but I don't really see a Free woman as less dominant than a Free man. As a slave, male or female if they aren't collared they are dominant to me. Given the choice I would prefer to belong to a man and by a man's slave than a woman's. I personally find I do react differently to male and female Free but I don't think that is a case of me viewing one as more dominant than the other. Now you've got me pondering what dominant means! Thank you for getting me to think! :)

Well wishes,
kimaya

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 10/1/2008 4:22:49 AM

xXLithiumXx

Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kimaya

Greetings Mistress Lithi,
Here are my answers to your questions. This has been an interesting thread thank you for starting it & encouraging participation. :)

Do you have days where you feel you do nothing right? even if some one is standing over you telling you that you are?
-- I do have days I feel I do nothing right. Sometimes even if Master says I am doing things right, its hard to really see that I am. But I am getting better at dropping the negativity and focusing on the fact that if I'm NOT doing something right - Master will tell me.

Do you get emotional when you get corrected? And if so, why? What makes that better for you?
-- I do get emotional. I get upset, frustrated at myself, etc. I'm not sure there is a way to make it "better" for me other than trying to learn from my mistakes so I don't get corrected for the same thing again.

How do you feel the best way to correct or be corrected so that your feelings dont get hurt may be?
-- I can honestly say that Master has never hurt my feelings by correcting me. I hurt my own feelings by beating myself up over it. Really Master doesn't correct me to try and hurt me, he corrects me to try and improve me as a slave, so I just try to focus on that and learn from it.

When it comes to service of a Mistress, versus service of a Master, do you feel there is a broad difference? What kind of difference do you see? Is it better? Or worse?
-- I don't feel there is a difference in general service, aside from all Free regardless of gender having their own personal preferences.

Do you hope for different things from a Mistress versus what you would hope for from a Master?
-- Not really - I still hope my service is pleasing

Is it harder to see a woman as a Dominant figure versus a man?
-- Maybe this is a case of semantics, but I don't really see a Free woman as less dominant than a Free man. As a slave, male or female if they aren't collared they are dominant to me. Given the choice I would prefer to belong to a man and by a man's slave than a woman's. I personally find I do react differently to male and female Free but I don't think that is a case of me viewing one as more dominant than the other. Now you've got me pondering what dominant means! Thank you for getting me to think! :)

Well wishes,
kimaya

kimaya,

I am glad that I could contribute to your growth and your education in some way. That is what I would like to think I am here for, to learn and to teach. My Husband poitned out to me that Socrates believed that we all had an obligation to share the knowledge that we have with others and vice versa. I think if we all lived by that idea, then the world would be smarter, lol, if not better.

Your answers are intresting, in that, most of the girls ( and please do not take offense to this) seem to feel that only a man can enslave them properly. I suppose this could be the case, but I wonder why that is? Is it a matter of social constraints? Or is it simply personal preference?

Understand that while my girl and I have begun to function more smoothly as a M/s relationship (M meaning Mistress in this case) there is no intimate contact with in that relationship. I find that while I enjoy women, and think they are gorgeous and wonderful creatures, I do not find my attraction extends to the sexual spectrum. Some may say that is wrong, but I find it much more intresting, and challenging to share a M/s relationship that has limited or no sexual contact.

In speaking with my girl on this, I think she feels, and I could be wrong, but judging from what she has told me, she finds that service to me is more challenging because I do not include sex. Where she felt with a Man, she had the ability to be pleasing in that way, she has to think and strive to do better in this relationship.

But at any rate, thank you for posting, and of course, your contunied comments are most welcome and in fact invited.

Lithi.

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement

You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 10/1/2008 4:46:18 AM

kimaya

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quote:

Your answers are intresting, in that, most of the girls ( and please do not take offense to this) seem to feel that only a man can enslave them properly. I suppose this could be the case, but I wonder why that is? Is it a matter of social constraints? Or is it simply personal preference?

Greetings Mistress Lithi,

Honestly, I think the primary reason I feel that way is that I have never met a woman who enslaved me. I have served a woman in general and intimate settings, but she felt more of an equal who was given dominance over me than a Mistress who could enslave me. So, I have served women, I have been attracted to women, I have dated women, but I have never felt mastered by a woman. I think for me it comes down to how I view men and women and their differences. I can serve women, and I have no problem seeing women as Free - I just don't normally see them as "Masters" for lack of better phrasing. Maybe some of it is social constraints insofar as I was raised in a household where the Man was the head of the house, etc. I'm honestly not sure, this is just the way I feel.

Be that as it may, if Master decided some day to take a Free Companion, I am sure I would learn quickly to see her as Mistress.

I hope that was a good explanation to your question Mistress - thank you for the continued conversation.

Well wishes,
kimaya

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kimaya
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RE: This is for the girlies...Free and bound alike. - 10/1/2008 5:16:05 AM

xXLithiumXx

Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kimaya

quote:

Your answers are intresting, in that, most of the girls ( and please do not take offense to this) seem to feel that only a man can enslave them properly. I suppose this could be the case, but I wonder why that is? Is it a matter of social constraints? Or is it simply personal preference?

Greetings Mistress Lithi,

Honestly, I think the primary reason I feel that way is that I have never met a woman who enslaved me. I have served a woman in general and intimate settings, but she felt more of an equal who was given dominance over me than a Mistress who could enslave me. So, I have served women, I have been attracted to women, I have dated women, but I have never felt mastered by a woman. I think for me it comes down to how I view men and women and their differences. I can serve women, and I have no problem seeing women as Free - I just don't normally see them as "Masters" for lack of better phrasing. Maybe some of it is social constraints insofar as I was raised in a household where the Man was the head of the house, etc. I'm honestly not sure, this is just the way I feel.

Be that as it may, if Master decided some day to take a Free Companion, I am sure I would learn quickly to see her as Mistress.

I hope that was a good explanation to your question Mistress - thank you for the continued conversation.

Well wishes,
kimaya

I think I can see how a slave would not be able to see a FW as a "Master" depending on the dynamic of the home. Take my home for example, I have a FC, and He is the leader of the home, I defer to him on all issues concerning the home, and His word is law. I am not a slave, do not function as a slave. I am free to speak my mind, to add my opinion, but ultimately, He makes the rules. So a slave coming into my home would see Him as Master to my Mistress, and would tend to follow Him more closely in things of day to day life.

On the other side, what entails enslavement? It is a status? Is it a state of mind? Is it that the person can get more into your head? Or into your heart? Or is it just that it is? What does it take TO enslave some one? A firm hand, a harsh look, skill with a whip, or is it an understanding of what a slave would need to function properly as a slave? Environment, training, ect.

If that is the case, if it is those few simple things, and we follow the line of thinking that ( and I am not saying this is true in all cases, but it could be in some, and I have heard it said before) inside of every FW is a slave waiting for the right set of chains...(perhaps not said in those exact words, but I think you get the drift.) then would it not stand to reason, that a FW would be a good teacher and trainer for a slave, knowing what would be expected, and would be wanted on both ends of the spectrum? And in this case, do slaves have a right to want or ask for anything at all?

Perhaps I am making no sense to any one but myself this morning, I am a bit under the weather and over due for some sinus medication, but these are the things I wonder, and the questions I ask. Things I think would bring me closer to understanding the slave mentality and how to best utilize that to make a better slave.

Lithi.

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement

You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

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