An election question for Goreans and other board regulars...

Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account

As the Collar Turns:

Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home Login Search

Espanol

Deutsch

Francais

Italiano

Portugues

An election question for Goreans and other board regulars...

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> An election question for Goreans and other board regulars...

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

An election question for Goreans and other board regula... - 10/10/2008 4:05:12 PM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

Please see page 45 of the Goreans With Disabilities thread if you desire to know where this thread originated.

As a Gorean or Gorean friendly person, how do you feel with regard to the need for health care reform, health related special interest groups, and their impact on the current economy, with regard to the presidential candidates?

What aspects of Gorean philosophy, or episodes from the books have a direct bearing on your views concerning this matter?

Please attempt to be somewhat civil, even if passionate in your discussions.

Have at it.

Grace

Post #: 1

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 4:19:55 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 16538
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

OK. Grace.

Any way to make this topic even more sweeping?

I've nothing I want to add to my comments on a Gorean board beyond those on the other thread you've referenced.

Off Topics thread is another story.

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 2

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 8:32:34 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Greetings Grace,

Rather than the government get in the business of Health Care, they would do better by forcing insurance and medical tort reform, so that the cost to private citizens and to the government via aid programs, would be extremely reduced. Combine this with some reform of Medicare setting prices for many things, and the reduction would make it so that more private citizens could afford health coverage and the limit the States cover would be increased.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 3

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 9:48:32 PM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Greetings Grace,

Rather than the government get in the business of Health Care, they would do better by forcing insurance and medical tort reform, so that the cost to private citizens and to the government via aid programs, would be extremely reduced. Combine this with some reform of Medicare setting prices for many things, and the reduction would make it so that more private citizens could afford health coverage and the limit the States cover would be increased.

Live well,
Orion

Good evening, Orion -

Tort reform is definitely needed. There are understandably intense feelings and beliefs on both sides of that issue - and rightly so. We've all heard about the ridiculous jury awards in such cases the the spilled McDonalds coffee. Likewise there are those very difficult cases where judge and jury are asked to put a price tag on loss of brain function (and the ensuing long term care costs), loss of limb, and so on. In spite of all that, I can't help but think with some reasonable compromise, realistic assessments, and a bit of basic compassion, that positive changes could be made in the area of torts. I see this problematic area as dealing with the concepts of personal responsibility, integrity, Home Stone, and steel - they all come into play when discussing and evaluating tort reform, injury, responsibility, and recompence.

There is a fundamental need for more reform than simply addressing torts, however. The accounting games played by insurance companies and hospitals, along with their "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, and together we can screw John Q Public to the wall" games are a travesty that has been ignored and winked at for far too long. The pharmaceutical companies and FDA are both areas of serious trouble for the pocketbooks and health of the American people.

All that said, yes, tort reform would help considerably.

Regards-
Grace

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 4

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 9:59:11 PM

Falaria

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline

It doesn't make a difference which candidate wins the election for in order to get true reform to happen you need to remove everyone out of Congress & the Senate and replace them with people who really give a damn about the people of this country and not what they themselves can get out of their position. For while all or most of us is watching our 401k & IRA's dwindling because of the recent economic roller coaster, those in office don't have to worry for they are set for life, they have entirely different retirement benefits then we do and they are the ones who voted their packages in, all at our expense and with no thought about the people that they are suppose to be serving are going through or how this is all effecting them.

Ok, I will get off my soapbox now and shut the door on the political bullshit that is going on in our country and hope and pray that we don't end up any worse than what we currently are.

I wish you all well.
Falaria

_____________________________

--- Look around at the pure, unblemished, pristine snow, then choose a path and make it............. your own. ---

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 5

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 10:01:18 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 16538
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Ah. The analytical approach.

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Falaria)

Post #: 6

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 10:14:23 PM

Falaria

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline

Aye, sorry about that but it is a bit late on Friday night and I just happen to be in an analytical mood after a long, hectic day and week. Makes me wonder how I would have responded if I had been a goofy, slappy-happy mood.

I wish you well,
Falaria

_____________________________

--- Look around at the pure, unblemished, pristine snow, then choose a path and make it............. your own. ---

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 7

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/10/2008 10:27:21 PM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

FR -

I offer this thought for those who may feel that this board isn't really the place for such discussions, or that they aren't actually Gorean in nature:

Either Gorean life is all about slaves and slave ownership, or it isn't. Either Gorean philosophy and morality are something to build a life on or they aren't. And if they are, then by God and your Mamma, they do have a bearing oh the how and why of your voting, your viewpoints, and your day to day. It is not necessary for any two Goreans to come to the same conclusions on a topic - not by any means. But if Gorean thought is worth a f***ing farthing, it will lead one to examine all that they do in its light.

This is, of course, simply my opinion, and your mileage may vary.

Grace

(in reply to Falaria)

Post #: 8

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 12:16:16 AM

Kirata

Posts: 7248
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Grace,

Wimpy posts just turn people off. I think if you would express yourself in more uncompromising and provocative terms, you might have better luck getting your point of view across to people.

K.

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 9

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 12:28:50 AM

Totalmaster4you

Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

~FR~
Tal to the free and property,

In my opinion the cost for health care started getting out of control with the advent of insurance coverage. Once upon a time people actually paid for their medical care. They would negotiate payment schedules with doctors and hospital. The difference between then and today is that the patient was the check valve for the money stream. Doctors then did all the exams necessary for the lowest cost for their patient while maintaining the patients health. When the bills started going to the insurance company the doctors changed their game plan. The new plan is where the doctors do more tests to cover the possibility of being sued. More tests = higher costs$$$$$.

In my opinion the best way to regain control of health care costs is by getting the patient back in the financial loop.

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 10

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 3:49:38 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

quote:

you need to remove everyone out of Congress & the Senate and replace them with people who really give a damn about the people of this country and not what they themselves can get out of their position.

Falaria,

I am sorry but statements like this are ridiculous. If you are incapable of seeing why i say that, then i am not going to waste my time explaning it.

On the concept of healthcare Grace hit upon a HUGE problem in this country, and while it keeps me in a job thankfully, a huge problem medical professionals face is medical mal practice premiums NOT because they "screw" up or make mistakes all the time but because this country is let's sue happy. People think they are entitled to health care and they want doctors to fix them all up but if something goes wrong they blame the doctors, hospitals and any and all medical staff. Which in turn these people have to defend and their defense is paid through their insurance company. So in the end it doesn't matter if the case win or lose, the doctors premiums go up because someone decided to sue them and so they needed to be defended. All you see on television are ads for people to call lawyers to sue about drugs. -- now i hear people wanting to blame lawyers for this BUT in the end, the people have to be the one who say -- yes please sue on my behalf. Many mal practice suits get dismissed or settle for a LOT less than expected because 1) the standard of care was NOT breached, or 2) the patient forgot all about the lil waiver she signed after the doctor expressly spoke to her about all the possible consequences that COULD happen. But in the end the outcome doesn't matter, if the insurance company has to pay a defense atty the premiums goes up. One doctor i know has been sued 6 times in the past 5 years -- all of them have either been dismissed or voluntarily dismissed by Plaintiff but she is contemplating leaving practicing medicine because she is having a hard time affording her premiums.

So while i know people never want to blame people of the society -- because they are just victims -- there would have to more than just healthcare reform if we want to keep quality professionals working for the nationalized health care system, otherwise, i am sure many of them will forgo that and turn to specialties that the government won't see as healthcare but cosmetic or private wants/desires care. Many doctors especially those who serve the general public don't live as high and mighty as people believe. Sure they are probably in the upper middle class once they pay off their medical school loans and get established eventually, but i see nothing wrong with that personally, their job is very important. But from what i hear from many people is WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME. Nevermind that some very highly skilled people will need to take massive pay cuts if the system becomes nationalized, that they will still have mass insurance premiums and school loans to pay, that they are struggling in many areas to staff people (i.e., nurses are needed in this country). My question is what is this country willing to sacrifice to have the quality affordable health care in this country? I mean how would you feel if the government stepped into your job and said well we want to nationalize this job for the country to benefit from but to do that we are cutting your salary and not going to much give a damn about what you have to pay to be in your career.

Do changes need to be made, yes, but i honestly don't believe that the medical professionals should have to cut their livelihood with out some massive restrictions on what the PEOPLE making changes also -- i.e. lawsuits, taxes to help pay the student loans for doctors back, some reform on the med mal insurance for doctors, etc. We will need something in there to entice quality people to STAY in the public areas.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)

Post #: 11

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 7:04:30 AM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Grace,

Wimpy posts just turn people off. I think if you would express yourself in more uncompromising and provocative terms, you might have better luck getting your point of view across to people.

K.

Good morning, Kirata -

I've been called a lot of things over the years. Some of them rather colorfully and frequently uttered. Wimpy isn't usually one of them. Surprised?

Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 12

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 8:10:17 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Greetings Grace,

I encourage everyone that does not know, to research the facts in the spilled coffee law suit. It is not as ridiculous as it sounds, once you read about the facts in the case.

As far as the rest of what you said, I agree but I do not see any candidate making any major changes to Health care. I have always felt that it should be a State issue if it absolutely must be addressed by the government.

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

Good evening, Orion -

We've all heard about the ridiculous jury awards in such cases the the spilled McDonalds coffee.
Regards-
Grace

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 13

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 8:20:05 AM

allyC

Posts: 776
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Greetings, Master. I recall when I first heard about the coffee case. I was aghast at what seemed to be something so ridiculous. Then I researched it and realized how McDonalds had treated the elderly woman when she merely asked to cover the medical costs for her skin grafts and they shut her down badly. I read the rest of the facts and I realized that the jury was making a point and I eventually agreed with their take on things. It just goes to show that everything isn't always as it seems. *smiles* Well wishes to you and your girl, Master. -Cavalier's ally

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 14

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 8:36:08 AM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Greetings Grace,

I encourage everyone that does not know, to research the facts in the spilled coffee law suit. It is not as ridiculous as it sounds, once you read about the facts in the case.

I have no quibble with the lawsuit itself. What I've read on the subject leads me to believe that it was not a truly frivilous suit. The amount of money awarded to the plaintif did, however, strike me as excessive. JMO If there are some details of that case that you think I've missed that you feel justify the amount the jury awarded, I'd welcome hearing them.

quote:

As far as the rest of what you said, I agree but I do not see any candidate making any major changes to Health care. I have always felt that it should be a State issue if it absolutely must be addressed by the government.

From a constitutional perspective, I'd agree that it is more of an issue for the states. Certainly, the management of anything tends to be more efficient on a smaller, more localized level. This harks back to those concepts of Home Stone and concentric circles of responsibility and steel.

The problem with simply leaving it to the states is the underlying issues have been allowed to grow and morph until substantial reform would require some degree of action at the federal level. The FDA, certainly, can not be eliminated or reined in by an individual state, or even a group of states, should they be so intrepid as to attempt the deed. Medicaid and Medicare are here to stay, and they also require being addressed at the federal level.

Further, the individual States have sold their souls, in a manner of speaking, allowing themselves to become increasingly addicted to federal funds which invariably come with a list of conditions, caveats, and ugly surprises. (Education is a prime example of this one.)

Insurance companies have become a major blight. To me it seems that making signifigant progress with insurance reform will require more than action by the states. I could be wrong on that one, but at this juncture I just don't see it.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how the states themselves can make serious progress on addressing the healthcare nightmare - by means other than tort reform alone - without at least some cooperation from the federal government.

Regards-
Grace

< Message edited by amelliagrace -- 10/11/2008 8:37:59 AM >

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 15

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 8:49:20 AM

Luther6

Posts: 244
Joined: 4/25/2007
Status: offline

Tal all:
I currently work investigating and evaluating personal injury and property damage claims, especially catastrophic injury claims. As such, I see plenty of misabuse of the tort system, claimants pursuing frivolous claims, as well as trying to place blame for their own negligence upon others. This abuse is perpetuated by some less than than honest attorneys and medical providers. I have also seen juries award a claimant far more money than they deserve. The average juror has no training or experience in evaluating the proper financial compensation for an injury. Emotions can sometimes sway their decisions.

The infamous "McDonald's coffee" case is often cited as a frivolous suit. Though this specific case was not truly frivolous, it is important to realize that the jury verdict of punitive damages of nearly $3M was significantly reduced by the judge to under $500K. The parties later settled.

Luther

_____________________________

“The Goreans have very different notions of morality from those of Earth.”
(Marauders of Gor, p.7)

(in reply to allyC)

Post #: 16

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 9:00:45 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 16538
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I encourage everyone that does not know, to research the facts in the spilled coffee law suit. It is not as ridiculous as it sounds, once you read about the facts in the case.

As far as the rest of what you said, I agree but I do not see any candidate making any major changes to Health care. I have always felt that it should be a State issue if it absolutely must be addressed by the government.

Live well,
Orion

Tal,

Orion is correct about the McDonald's case---as others have already noted, to which I might add that coffee was not merely hot, but beyond hot. She had a good case. Also, judges can--and do--set aside jury awards when they are out of line (in either direction).

Health care--I like Sen. Obama's proposal to make medical records portable. Currently, if you go to the ER and get an X-Ray, then later go to a specialist for follow-up, even though it's only a day or two, they take their own X-Ray. You pay for both. My own doctor has all my records on his laptop. He can check anything quickly, and if I needed to see a specialist, any pertinent information, EKGs, whatever could just be sent.

Right now, almost ANY kind of universal health care would be an improvement. No one saves money when we have people skipping basic, preventative care for financial reasons ending up in the ER for emergency care costing thousands of dollars. We are the only industrial nation without universal health care, yet we spend FAR more on it than any other nation--that's certainly not a cost effective plan.

I don't like Sen. McCain's $5000 tax credit plan. It wouldn't cover the cost of most insurance plans, and it would encourage employers offering better plans to get out of offering costly insurance, leaving most of us worse off than we are now.

For those who want the insurance companies out of the health game---the only way to do that is to have the government take over health insurance. In some countries, that's exactly what they do. Costs can then be controlled. However, I have trouble seeing Americans willing to see the government in that role, especially given the crappy job the government has done running VA health care, not to mention the callus disregard for the value of human life it has sometimes shown (remember the Ford Pinto Memo?). Plans that enhance and expand the current employer based system, while that system clearly has faults, probably stand the best chance of seeing the light of day.

Getting Americans to eat healthy and exercise regularly wouldn't hurt either. Good luck with that!

Live well,

Tim

[edited to add--Luther posted while I was writing this, so I didn't see his contribution until I posted. Thanks, Luther.]

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/11/2008 9:42:33 AM >

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 17

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 9:40:49 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

This is funny, i am reading JD Robb's In Death series and it takes place around 2060 and the government has stepped in and the food is all healthy, people don't have REAL coffee or meat (unless you are like mega rich) at the store they have like soy products and health products mostly lab made and even candy is healthy for you. And vending machines tell you the nutritional value of the item you just purchased lol. so whose up for a soy burger and soy fries? Oh lol and prostitution is legally licensible career with training, health tests and everything lol.

Tim your comments about getting healthy and governemental control just made me think of this lol. I clearly agree -- Be careful what you wish for.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 18

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 9:45:21 AM

ygraine

Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline

Soylent green is people!!!!
Y

_____________________________

If you think something is too good to be true, it probably is.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 19

RE: An election question for Goreans and other board re... - 10/11/2008 9:51:58 AM

NumberSix

Posts: 1371
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

Since Charlie Heston said it, are we to infer that it will become some lapidary in the republican canons?

Hup

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

(in reply to ygraine)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> An election question for Goreans and other board regulars...

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2012

Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition

Terms of Service

3.016