bad Doms and the damage they can do. (Full Version)

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sweetsub0 -> bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/6/2004 3:28:09 AM)

i would like to know if any others have recovered from experiences with really bad Doms. I mean Doms who use your love for them as a way to use your person. Mine used me to support him and all the while he was telling me that he was having a hard time in sexual things he was useing his time to pick up chicks and screw them.
In my heart I truely feel ashamed that this situation was allowed to go on for 4 years I feel as though he never loved me and certainly never charished me. I feel as though i will never be able to trust another Dom. Even though he did bad things i want to go back to him because i still love him. i will not out of self-defence.
In the bedroom i have become ashamed of my body because he used to tell me that he loved me and then would not touch me for months sometimes. I find it very hard to talk about sex with any man. A harmless flirtation becomes a full forced threat to me. I come away from the encounter feeling offended and prudish, then i wonder whats wrong with me. i don't feel as though i will ever feel free nude in front of a Dom again because of the pure ridicule i have been subjected to. i know if i am completely unable to discuss sexual matters there will not be hope for another Dom in my life because there is no communication.

If you have answers please post them or e-mail me sweetsub0



ShadowHwk -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/6/2004 6:07:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub0

i would like to know if any others have recovered from experiences with really bad Doms. I mean Doms who use your love for them as a way to use your person. Mine used me to support him and all the while he was telling me that he was having a hard time in sexual things he was useing his time to pick up chicks and screw them.
In my heart I truely feel ashamed that this situation was allowed to go on for 4 years I feel as though he never loved me and certainly never charished me. I feel as though i will never be able to trust another Dom. Even though he did bad things i want to go back to him because i still love him. i will not out of self-defence.
In the bedroom i have become ashamed of my body because he used to tell me that he loved me and then would not touch me for months sometimes. I find it very hard to talk about sex with any man. A harmless flirtation becomes a full forced threat to me. I come away from the encounter feeling offended and prudish, then i wonder whats wrong with me. i don't feel as though i will ever feel free nude in front of a Dom again because of the pure ridicule i have been subjected to. i know if i am completely unable to discuss sexual matters there will not be hope for another Dom in my life because there is no communication.

If you have answers please post them or e-mail me sweetsub0


sweetsub0,

I have read your post in the Master's forum and then saw this one here. The problem you are having is with your own sense of self. You let someone into your life and they hurt you - it's a shame, and it shouldn't be that way, but it happens. The only thing you should be beating yourself up about is that you let go on for so long. If you knew what was happening and didn't leave - then whose fault is that? YOU are utimately responsible for yourself.

Want to REALLY fix the problem? Get some professional counseling. Seriously. Don't whine about it on the net, go out and do something about it, work on yourself. There won't be a quick fix. You have to reestablish your sense of self. There are things you can do which will help you with that sense of self. Join a gym AND actually go 3 times a week or take some sort of classes furthering you education or learning a new skill that you have always wanted. There is no “one” way to fix this, but the solution must come from inside you.

Just my .02
Peace and Light
Terry



NightDaughter -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/6/2004 1:01:51 PM)

Your not alone sweetsub0 my first relationship ever was with a dominant male who at the time I didn't know was in the BDSM let alone what bdsm was. I learned and was brainwashed to a degree, to acapt what he said about me etc. I finally had enough of it and left him, but I was under his thumb for about 5 years, all the while going though university.

We all make mastakes in our life, but no one can take away who you are. They can blooming well try, and its up to you if you give them that power over you. I think that you are stranger then you think you are. You will be able to get naked infront of the one you will choose to call your dominant, it might take a year or so, but I have confadence that you will be able to do it.

If you need to talk feel free in messaging me.



sweetsub0 -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/9/2004 10:58:57 PM)

It is time to end this thread i think. This one has found her answer.

Dear submissive,
You have the responsibility to yourself to understand fully what you are getting into, and to understand that all your choices carry consequences, and you have to accept the consequences of your actions and choices, including the one to kneel before the man who would ultimately own you.
You have the responcibilty to yourself to make certain that the man before whom you kneel can first control himself. For if he cannot, how can he hope to control those forces who might work to harm you, let alone teach you self-control.
You have the responcibility to yourself to make certain he sees your submission as a gift, not a right. Absolute power can corrupt absolutely. If your submission is granted as a right by some unknown force in the universe, he will never appreciate it untill you have withdrawn it and then it is too late.
You have a responcibilty to yourself to make certain he is capable of handling his affairs. If he is unable to manage his affairs, how can he hope to guide you in yours.
You have a responcibility to yourself to be certain the man you kneel before is a MAN and not a pretender to the title of Dominant.
Sincerly Master Minitor



Estring -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/9/2004 11:58:01 PM)

Actually sweetsub, the answer is to quit basing your worth on what others think.



sbmssvkitten -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/10/2004 4:22:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub0

i would like to know if any others have recovered from experiences with really bad Doms. I mean Doms who use your love for them as a way to use your person. Mine used me to support him and all the while he was telling me that he was having a hard time in sexual things he was useing his time to pick up chicks and screw them.
In my heart I truely feel ashamed that this situation was allowed to go on for 4 years I feel as though he never loved me and certainly never charished me. I feel as though i will never be able to trust another Dom. Even though he did bad things i want to go back to him because i still love him. i will not out of self-defence.
In the bedroom i have become ashamed of my body because he used to tell me that he loved me and then would not touch me for months sometimes. I find it very hard to talk about sex with any man. A harmless flirtation becomes a full forced threat to me. I come away from the encounter feeling offended and prudish, then i wonder whats wrong with me. i don't feel as though i will ever feel free nude in front of a Dom again because of the pure ridicule i have been subjected to. i know if i am completely unable to discuss sexual matters there will not be hope for another Dom in my life because there is no communication.

If you have answers please post them or e-mail me sweetsub0


i did start a thread a few weeks back, called raped for being sub, i think it was the worst experience i have had but it was over a year ago. there was another guy who kept tellign me that he loves me then went and did things he promised not to do, he didn't accept limits as he said he has needs to. the last time i saw himi threw him out as he decided that he woudl have sex with me even though i told him no and he promised he wouldnt. but then those two don't fal under the cathegory dom in my eyes anymore, i call them bullies.



robyn -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/10/2004 2:15:10 PM)

hi sweetsub0,

im so sorry youve had this bad experience. But its over, and its time for you to pick yourself up, dust off, and get on with your life.

This man was not a Dominant, he was a creep.

But try to understand your self worth cannot come from a man, it has to come from within you.

Join a gym, volunteer, take a class......do anything that you enjoy, but do it for you.

You are a wonderful, kind, and generous person......but *you* need to believe it.

Take some time off from men. You need to work on yourself for a little bit. A man who has any value at all is looking for a woman who has her life together.

You can do it, sweetsub0, i believe in you!

smiles, robyn



WayHome -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/10/2004 2:50:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Actually sweetsub, the answer is to quit basing your worth on what others think.


Great advice but unfortunately nearly impossible for so many subs. Kind goes with the territory.

I have seen the word "creep" and "bully" used to describe the "so called Dom" who forced sex upon sbmssvkitten. Those words seem inappropriate. I would use "Criminal" and "Rapist" instead. That is not ok, and you don't have to be "cool" about it or "accept" it.



JacquesTreatment -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/10/2004 4:07:04 PM)

I think that one thing that people seem to be missing here is that "getting over it" is much harder to do than the words make it. Psychological conditioning does happen during dominance/submission activities, and it takes significant time and effort to extinguish learned behaviors and linked emotions. Similarly, there's the problem that you cannot always know if or when a person will be abusive by his/her actions, even after knowing him or her for a very long time, and sometimes, the patterns of abuse can be very subtle and hard to follow, especially in the first person. Yes, you always have the responsibility to look after yourself and your best interest, but it's harder to do so than it first seems, since one's vision is always clouded by one's hopes, dreams, and fears, as well as by deception in the case of some of the abusive types.

Finding self-esteem and rebuilding it becomes a difficult task, as a result. Yes, professional counselling can help, assuming you can find one who doesn't categorize BDSM interest as a mental illness. If you look to websites for local D/s "lifestyle" groups, you should be able to find a kink-friendly therapist, though, with any luck. In the meanwhile, do whatever it takes to get yourself through the day and maintain yourself.

I wish you the best of luck.

--J



sweetpleaser -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/10/2004 6:59:31 PM)

quote:

Great advice but unfortunately nearly impossible for so many subs. Kind goes with the territory.



This is so true. Being so giving is part of the whole dynamic--giving of one's total trust. With this trust comes a vulnerability. If the Dominant becomes unhappy for any reason, the Submissive takes it to heart and DOES base her (in my case) self esteem on that. We are gentle souls. I have personally been told to not pay attention to what others think of me, but I can't help but to do just that. I thrive on praise and am destroyed by criticism. If I mistakenly trusted an abuser, I WOULD have a hard time leaving, but could find the courage eventually. I want to stress how difficult that would be due to the nature of myself as a sub.

Be Well,
ann



Sinergy -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/10/2004 7:34:48 PM)

quote:

Great advice but unfortunately nearly impossible for so many subs.


I think the problem is one found in human nature, and is ancillary to which end of the flogger you are on.

How many CHUDWAHs rant about people trying to Dom them asking them to pass the salt?

How many people on a daily basis invest their self-worth in what other people think of them?

I dont think it is more or less impossible for submissives than it is for the rest of us.

It will require active effort to accomplish, however. But take comfort in the fact that you will get out of something what you put into it. If you nurture and tend your soul the way you would a garden you love, and eventually you will receive the relationship you deserve.

Good luck,

Sinergy



Estring -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 12:51:05 AM)

I see so many sub profiles proclaiming they are not doormats. Yet it seems like that is exactly what many are claiming subs are on this thread. A good relationship in this lifestyle should always be a positive, uplifting experience. And if a subs' submission is not given from strength but from weakness, it will never be. If you a have problem with your self esteem, fix it before you give yourself to anybody.



WayHome -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 2:07:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

I see so many sub profiles proclaiming they are not doormats. Yet it seems like that is exactly what many are claiming subs are on this thread. A good relationship in this lifestyle should always be a positive, uplifting experience. And if a subs' submission is not given from strength but from weakness, it will never be. If you a have problem with your self esteem, fix it before you give yourself to anybody.


I totally agree with your ideal, but the reality is that many submissives ARE or HAVE BEEN doormats. If that wasn't true, then there would be no reason for a particular sub to bother stating that they are not like that.

I think you will find very few doormats of any persuasion posting to this forum because they wouldn't handle it very well for very long given the strong and divergent opinions present.

On the other hand, they are out there. Learning not to be a doormat can be the single most difficult life task for many "natural submissives" who are so eager to please and so sensitive to rejection that they can't help but agree to everything.

When I was in psychology, I didn't see how BDSM could really represent a healthy lifestyle. One of the things that convinced me how much it can be a positive choice leading to growth was the fact that many people (more women than men) go through life in denial of their own submissiveness and them make very poor choices as a result. Usually ending up in one abusive relationship after another. When a person brings these feelings into the open and begins to work with them actively, they also recognize the patterns. Hopefully they also learn how to set limits and boundaries which they missed before in their social development.

Before someone gets the wrong idea and thinks that last sentence is a criticism of "slavery" or total submission", please let me explain. For some, absolute slavery sets more limits on their submission than they had as a vanilla. This is because at least now they are only bending to the will of one person who has committed to that responsibility rather than constantly running around in a fit, trying to make everyone happy all the time and stressing when the desires of various individuals are incompatible, leaving them with the emotional delemma of who to please on top of all the baggage that goes with trying NOT to be too "passive" or "submissive" in a culture that says he or she should be assertive and free-willed.



sweetpleaser -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 6:31:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

A good relationship in this lifestyle should always be a positive, uplifting experience. And if a subs' submission is not given from strength but from weakness, it will never be. If you a have problem with your self esteem, fix it before you give yourself to anybody.


Estring:

You are right that a good relationship should always be positive, and most are in the beginning. My thought is that sometimes people are not who they seem to be until later, after the submission has happened and it leaves the possibility of abuse. I also realize this could happen in any relationship. I look to this lifestyle because in a vanilla relationship the submissive person is not respected in this society. I am hoping that by following my nature I can feel strength in who I am.

I have not given myself to anyone because you are right again, I need to work on myself. But let me ask you a question, during your training of a sub, do you not "correct" her if she disappoints you in some way? Please do not misunderstand me--I am not saying you are an abuser. Obviously she would want to please you and would feel terrible if she didn't; as in other threads on this site. Subs feel worse by disappointing their Masters than any physical punishment they are given. Do you think the deep feelings a sub has makes her/him a doormat?

Be Well,
ann



newflowers -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 7:21:27 AM)

Sweetsub0,

The one and only committed D/s relationship I've had ended badly, very badly for me in a manner that caused me to question myself, my self-worth, my needs and desires, my sanity. But words have power and sometimes it is easier to suffer a physical pain than it is to suffer from hurtful words that repeat ad infinitum in your mind. It took me three years to reach the current time wherein I am ready to seek another relationship. Part of that time was spent healing - no shrinks or groups or therapy, but time spent learning to value myself and appreciate myself for my own particular brand of wonderfulness. Time spent with family members and friends I care for and like.

You may or may not go to the gym to change what your mirror shows you and working out can be a great healthy activity - but changing the way your body looks will not heal this wound.

Give yourself time. I found writing a particularly good outlet, keep a journal, scribble madly what comes into your head. Engage in positive self-talk (even if you don't quite believe it deep inside, say nice things about yourself to yourself, in time, you will believe). Take your time. Get to know yourself, be gentle with yourself. Right now, you are fragile and need to give yourself all of the care and patience you possibly can. You need to reacquaint yourself with yourself, learn to like yourself and actively love and appreciate yourself. Work on a hobby, develop some new ones. Spend time with yourself until you begin to like and trust yourself again.

None of this means self-imposed isolation, but take your time. Healing is not going to happen overnight, nor will it do so very quickly, but give yourself that time.

I can't say that perfection and a lack of personal insecurities are now my lot in life, and, alas, I remain fallibly human. Recently, someone said something to me, one of the particularly painful things that *he* used to say and it felt like I had been stabbed in the heart, I was surprised by how vivid that hurt was. Trying to hide tears, there were a few difficult minutes. But I was able to ask for and semi-rationally listen to an explanation that communicated something totally different than I understood based on my past. And it is okay, but it took me a long time to reach this point of being okay.

"There is no statute of limitaions on grief." Healing takes time - give yourself that time.

newflowers



deannalynn -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 7:27:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

I see so many sub profiles proclaiming they are not doormats.


Warm Greetings,

I have heard the term doormat used endlessly and I have even used it.

I have always wondered, what exactly is a doormat?

Where is the line drawn between obedient slave/submissive and a doormat?

If a man is truly seeking a relationship where they have control and are obeyed why would it be found offensive if a woman is totally subservient?

If there is a line drawn between a totally subservient woman and a doormat, wouldnt it be the dominants responsibility to bring out her good qualities?


deanna



Estring -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 8:27:28 PM)

sweet, disciplining a sub is a far cry from abusing her. The discipline is done to teach her what is the correct behavior. To make her a better sub. That should always be done with caring and never in anger.
As for the deep feelings a sub has, that is what makes her a good sub. But abusers can take advantage of it.
Many subs overlook red flags because they fear that their chance to serve will vanish and they will be alone. That is submitting from a position of weakness. A sub who serves a Dom who she knows will complete her and allow her to blossom under his control is submitting from a position of strength. And she won't ignore any red flags in the beginning.



Estring -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 8:31:03 PM)

There is no connection with serving completely and being a doormat. A doormat is someone who allows themselves to be abused and beaten down by an abusive man. And she usually serves out of fear that no one else will have her.



WayHome -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 9:25:35 PM)

I agree that submission is not the same thing as "being a doormat" or the same thing as abuse.

Actually, I think the scene sometimes saves people from abusive relationships. Without the scene, these submissives search out something that is missing without knowing what it is and unwittingly get hooked up with one user after another without understanding why they are attracted to them. Recognizing their need for a strong partner who will take control allows them to pursue that in a positive way.



Laura -> RE: bad Doms and the damage they can do. (8/11/2004 11:26:53 PM)

This has nothing to do with him being a Dom (he wasn't). Read about abusive relationships. You'll find some answers there.



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