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RE: The Natural Order of Things


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RE: The Natural Order of Things - 12/25/2005 9:56:29 AM   
nephandi


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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Some here seam to put alot of stock in the fact that men are bigger and stronger, well i am big and i am strong, i have stronge bones and good health, i do not feel physicaly inferior to a man. Still i am submissive, and while is do not belive Master Michael`s natrual order is alfa and omega, i certinly belive woman, including myself mor often are submissive to men than the other way around so there must be somthing else than pure strenght there to make that so.

Master Michael, Merry Christmas by the way.

(in reply to Webmaster60)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: The Natural Order of Things - 12/25/2005 11:00:09 AM   
Delvin


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
To perhaps give some new light on this topic and still remain focused on the questions asked in the begining post;

quote:



The question.. Do you believe in a 'natural order'? Do you see the Male of the species at the head of such order? If not, why? Are the women of the world biologically BOUND to serve us?



1) Natural Order -The natural order is the moral source from which natural law seeks to derive its authority. It encompasses the natural relations of beings to one another, in the absence of law, which natural law attempts to reinforce.

In contrast, divine law seeks authority from God, and positive law seeks authority from government.

A term used by Hans-Hermann Hoppe in his book Democracy: The God That Failed: The Economics and Politics of Monarchy, Democracy, and Natural Order to designate Anarcho-capitalism.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_order"

~~The natural law or law of nature is a system of justice that exists independently of the positive law of a given political order. Its usage has varied through its history. It currently has a meaning in both moral theory and legal theory, despite the fact that the core claims of the two kinds of theory are logically independent. According to natural law ethical theory, the moral standards that govern human behavior are, in some sense, objectively derived from the nature of human beings or the cosmos in general. According to natural law legal theory, the authority of at least some legal standards necessarily derives, at least in part, from considerations having to do with the moral merit of those standards.

In the philosophy of natural law, the idea that the concepts of law and morality intersect in some way is called the "overlap thesis".

There are a number of different theories of natural law, differing from each other with respect to the role that morality plays in determining the authority of legal norms. This article will deal with its usages separately rather than attempt to give a single concept that ties them all together.

The term 'natural law' is ambiguous. It refers to a type of moral theory, as well as to a type of legal theory, despite the fact that the core claims of the two kinds of theory are logically independent.
~~

2) Male of the Species -In biology, a species is the basic unit of biodiversity. In scientific classification, a species is assigned a two-part name in Latin. The genus is listed first (and capitalized), followed by a specific epithet. For example, humans belong to the genus Homo, and are in the species Homo sapiens. The name of the species is the whole binomial not just the second term (the specific epithet). The binomial, and most other purely formal aspects of the biological codes of nomenclature, were formalized by Carolus Linnaeus in the 1700's and as a result are called the "Linnaean system". At that time, species were thought to represent independent acts of creation by God, and were therefore considered objectively real and immutable.

Since the advent of the theory of evolution, the conception of species has undergone vast changes in biology, however no consensus on the definition of the word has yet been reached. The most commonly cited definition of "species" was first coined by Ernst Mayr. By this definition, called the biological species concept or isolation species concept, species are "groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations which are reproductively isolated from other such groups". However, many other species concepts are also used (see other definitions of species below).

The scientific name of a species is properly typeset in italics. When an unknown species is being referred to this may be done by using the abbreviation "sp." in the singular or "spp." in the plural in the place of the second part of the scientific name. Note that the word "specie" is not the singular of "species". It refers to coined money.

~~Humans or human beings define themselves in biological, social, and spiritual terms. Biologically, humans are classified as the mammalian species Homo sapiens (Latin for "wise man" or "thinking man"): a bipedal primate of the superfamily Hominoidea, together with the other apes: chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and gibbons.

Humans have an erect body carriage that frees their upper limbs for manipulating objects and a highly developed brain capable of abstract reasoning, speech, language, and introspection. Bipedal locomotion appears to have evolved before the development of a large brain. The origins of bipedal locomotion and of its role in the evolution of the human brain are topics of ongoing research.

The human mind has several distinct attributes. It is responsible for complex behaviour, especially language. Curiosity and observation have led to a variety of explanations for consciousness and the relation between mind and body. Psychology attempts to study behaviour from a scientific point of view. Religious perspectives emphasise a soul, qi or atman as the essence of being, and are often characterised by the belief in and worship of God, gods, spirits, or other people. Philosophy, especially philosophy of mind, attempts to fathom the depths of each of these perspectives. Art, music and literature are often used in expressing these concepts and feelings.

Like all primates, humans are inherently social. They create complex social structures composed of co-operating and competing groups. These range from nations and states down to families. Seeking to understand and manipulate the world around them has led to the development of technology and science. Artifacts, beliefs, myths, rituals, values, and social norms have all helped to form humanity's culture.
~~

3) To Serve -Slave is a term often used in BDSM to connote a specific form of submissive. Such a person could also be a masochist or bottom, but this is not always the case.

Connotatively it refers to very involved domination and submission (commonly abbreviated as D/s) relationships; a person who has surrendered their personal property and freedoms to another, who has become the property or chattel of their owner(s). This term is widely used, as it has a certain self-affirming weight.

Some users feel the difference between submissive and slave is the degree of submission. However, many who are involved in Master/slave relationships see the difference as one in kind, not in degree. In particular, some slaves are not submissive, but simply choose to surrender their will to that of another and obey.

It should be noted that the relationship is entered on a strictly consensual basis, and no legal ownership is involved. Various forms of symbolism are used to affirm the relationship, such as wearing the owner's collar, being registered in a slave register, adopting a name chosen by the owner, or a public declaration or ceremony. Some people draw up "slave contracts" that define the relationship, but these usually have no legal weight and are not intended to be used in court.

After signing a slave contract, many people celebrate the commitment with a collaring ceremony, which can be simple or elaborate and friends are usually invited. The slave then wears a "collar", which symbolizes their status. The collar may be an actual piece of neckwear, or may be a bracelet or other piece of jewelry that symbolizes their slavery. Collars are generally never removed until the relationship is dissolved, although some slaves exchange a "formal" collar for a "subdued" one in work and vanilla situations.

There is considerable debate over the exact definition of "slave". Many people believe that you are a slave if you consider yourself one, whilst others believe one must be in the emotional state of Total Power Exchange or Internal Enslavement for the term to apply.

There are differences of opinion about whether one needs to be currently owned to be identified as a slave. Many in the Master/slave community do not feel that ownership is a requirement. Rather, one can possess a "slave heart" even when not owned.

~~ Total Power Exchange -Total Power Exchange or TPE is a derivative of the concept of power exchange in a D/s relationship. The term refers to a relationship where the dominant has complete authority and influence over the submissive's life, making the majority of decisions. TPE is occasionally referred to as 24/7 though most consider these terms to have different definitions. More frequently, TPE is used interchangeably with the state of being a slave or being Internally Enslaved.

Total Power Exchange was coined by Steven S. Davis in the newsgroup alt.sex.bondage during his debates with Jon Jacobs in the mid 1990's.

Both TPE and Jacob's preferred term, Absolute Power Exchange or APE, are problematic terms for some people, including many who pursue these types of D/s relationship, since the relationship is subject to the physical and the emotional limitations of the participants and therefore cannot genuinely be total or absolute.
~~

~~ To Submit - In human sexual behavior, a submissive is one who enjoys having any of a variety of BDSM practices performed upon them by a Dominant; or one who holds a submissive position within a relationship based upon Dominance and submission (Ds). This enjoyment can spring from a simple desire for submission or an enjoyment of the interplay of wills involved in such a scenario. A submissive is also known as a 'sub'.

The main difference between a submissive and a bottom is that the submissive ostensibly does not give instructions, although s/he does set limits on what the Dominant can do.

There are some indications that preference in Ds activities follows a "compensatory" pattern, with people who have much power and responsibility in real life often preferring a submissive role and vice versa, however no hard scientific data to either confirm or reject this hypothesis seem to exist.

There are also indications that submissives substantially outnumber Dominants, in both males and females. Professional Dominants provide stimulatory services (which may or may not include sex) for those unable to find a compatible partner for this activity.

In many BDSM communities, there is a distinction between a submissive and a slave. In this context, a slave's goal is surrender and obedience. In contrast, a submissive tends to expect some gratification in return for his or her submission.

In a wider view of human behavior, a submissive is one who needs to give most or all authority over their lives to a dominant, who will protect, guide, and nourish them. This D/s relationship need not include BDSM practices as it is based on the whole relationship, not just the sexual aspects. A submitter in a D/s is also known as a sub, while the dominant is known as the Dom.

Natural submitters are strong relaters who need and may seek the deepest intimacy in personal relationships. Submitters can be placed on a spectrum of natural submitters, natural submitters with victimization traits, and full-fledged victims, who may or may not be natural submitters.

Offers to submit may be either passive (yielding or surrendering) or active (gifting), just as the common verb can be either yielding to, or presenting to another.

__________________________________________________________________________

Feel free to disscet each word, each phrase and each meaning of a word or phrase to best suit your needs.

Thanks to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Watching three wolves being born, two males and one female, one of the Males is Alpha, the second male beta and the female Alpha. She will gladly share food with the Alpha Male but the beta male has no chance, she will fight him off... These are wolf pups 9 months old. Yet in this brief time, without anyone explaining the definitions to them, dissecting words and meaning, the Male Stepped up, took charge, the second male and female fell in line and all seem very happy in this arrangement. It appears...natural.

There may be some evidence of someone slipping in the dictionary to the Alpha's cave at night...

D



(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: The Natural Order of Things - 12/25/2005 1:04:59 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
Greetings..~smiles~


Will just add on a note to what Master posted regarding the Wolves. The male that took Alpha position is the smaller of the two male brothers.


Merry Christmas
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to Delvin)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: The Natural Order of Things - 12/25/2005 1:13:59 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline
i also think there is a huge differance between women often begin subserivent to men if nature took its course, and choosing slavery, for example while many women will be extremly devote to their man, often subservient and sacrefice mutch for him, if she was treated as off handedly as some Masters, not all min you, trat their slaves and not given love back, she would leve him in a second. John Norman wrote a tale where all women secrently wished to be slaves, theough seeing what the slaves went through i do not think it, as i once took up here and was yelled at for, being branded and then just be expected to dry ones tears and follow orders, to be taken from frinds and family whit no cares to her happyness becouse she was only property, while for some this is perfectly fine and is an owner`s right, this is not what quite a few women would want.

There is a differance whit being the one that needs protecting, to some extend obeying the man, yet still have ones say, where ones happyness is still being considerd, and choosing slavery. So to give a werry short and simple answer as to what i think, yes, werry many women is natrual subservient to men, but only a few would be natrual slaves, only a few would serve men, in the sense of serving and not get somthing in return, a 50`s housewife would be considerd subservient and she tended to house and got her man food, but her serive had a price, his love, money, protection and so on, they were more Senior and Junior partner than Master and slave, and that is what i feel is more the natrual order. The man as Senior Partner and the female as junnior partner.

(in reply to Delvin)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: The Natural Order of Things - 12/25/2005 2:39:24 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37442
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
So you look at this as a Sempai-Kohai relationship?

Ron

edited because I cannot spell and probably will never be able to, no matter how many times I edit a post...

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/25/2005 2:42:57 PM >


_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: The Natural Order of Things - 12/25/2005 3:34:45 PM   
LadiesBladewing


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Joined: 8/31/2005
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Actually, I served as a servant in our household for 8 years. The man who introduced me to Gor did, in fact, introduce me through slavery, which is how -he- was introduced to this life (and wore the brand from the day he earned his leathers). To me, he was everything that a dominant man was, and yes, I cherished being at his feet. Had he not died, it is entirely possible that I would have served him for the rest of my natural life, with absolutely -no- shame in doing so.

However, it was a choice for me to yield to him. I knelt at his feet, and begged for his collar, and knew, every step of the way, what it was that I was choosing and answered to my own conscience about whether that was the right choice for me. It was a choice every single day for me to do what was expected of me to the best of my ability. -This- was something I learned in the monastery -- that there is no way to live in service, without truly -choosing- each and every moment to yield one's service up. The man who owned me was, I think, my True Master... not "a True Master", for he might not have had the same response for another woman, but he was, for me, the one who could evoke from me the same calling to serve that my spiritual service brought out in me, and cause me to get as much satisfaction from serving a -person- as I did from serving my path... who could make it as fulfilling to serve a household of his free mates and friends as it was to serve -him-. Even that does not change the fact that I -chose-, and that it was in making the choice to follow my instinctive calling to serve him that I grew in an understanding of what it means to serve a -person-, and how serving a person can be as fulfilling in spirit as serving a community.

With this man's death, any desire that I had to submit to another man faded. I had never felt any desire to personally serve a man before this, even having been married for 13 years to a soldier. I have never felt even the inkling of it since with any other man, though I certainly -did- try for the man that my Owner "willed" me to, and for the woman who was his Companion, so that she wouldn't lose everything when he died. It was my greatest failure as a servant, since there was nothing in the man that LB willed me to that called to me to serve him, and it was agony to force myself to something that I did not feel, for a man whom I did not truly respect other than that my former Owner called him "friend"... and his former Companion had been my student before I ever came to Gor, and for us, our relationship reverted to that of my station as Elder/Teacher and hers as Colleague/Student, which serves us well even now. Perhaps that is because at some point, when we rest in Valhalla among the others who have fought the good fight, I will serve LB again. I have no shame in this, and accept that it may be my "heaven" to do that, since I never learned more about myself and the levels to which I was able to strive than I did when I sought for the very core of myself from which to serve him.

As I said in my post, I think that there -is- something within us that can be called our "natural order". Like "my True Master", that "natural order" is inherent in an individual, not necessarily in a gender or a race, etc. If you are never called to serve by yielding, that may just be -you-. Revel in it, and respect yourself for it. It may be gender-based at our most animal level, and choosing to follow that call is every bit as honorable as choosing to go another way -- as long as you are honest about the choice that you are making, and as long as you acknowledge that no matter how much you are called to master, there will be those who will make their own choice not to answer to your drive.

Lady Zephyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Webmaster60

quote:

For myself... I have yielded to both an ideal and to humans. I learned much about myself and about life in the process. Now, I control lives myself.


Lady Z. I'll put to you a question.. I'll say from the onset, that I recognize you as a Dominant Woman. That, in itself (for me) is no small thing. I have listened to what you write and find you wise in your counsel, not that we always agree.

If you prefer to answer this question, off line, or not at all, I'll say no more regardless.

Even as you are. Have you ever, are you ever, or often been in the presence of a Man whose charisma, natural dominance, scent, (whatever the forse that drives.. ) found yourself wondering what it would be like to be at his feet? Have you ever longed to be owned?

Myself? I hear the only way to be a good Master is to experience the slave.. I simply cannot. There is something in me that would surely cause me to stop breathing if I ever explored such a thing. slaveophobe? I dunno.. There was once a slut, at a party, approached me with a flogger (it was my birthday) and asked if she could swat me for my birthday. In good fun and spirit I really would have like to accomodate her. But I could not. I have her a rod and told her she could strike me across the chest. standing.. (she declined) but I could not have accomodated her request even if I were inclined to.

I started this whole thread to help me gain some insight of self. There is something baser in me that I thought was simply "nature's call". COuld not be nurture, I've never been mentored or 'trained" as a Master.. Those of us that are naturally Dominant.. If you do not believe in the Natural Order.. what is it then that calls us to be Dominant or submissive? a gene? chance? rendom selection?


_____________________________


"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.

Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to Webmaster60)
Profile   Post #: 166
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