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RE: additional slaves - 12/24/2005 4:14:21 PM

buffiyum

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sabrina,
well said!
respectfully,
buffy

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RE: additional slaves - 12/25/2005 12:58:04 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

Just an aside from something edana said: "Men are different from women. Master can feel affection and bond for more than one woman."
In this girl's life she serves a circle of Men. So the above statement doesn't ring true to her. she has seen in her life, we as girls are also capable of having service bonds to many Men, not just our Owners.

I think that you two may have just missed each other there a little bit. What edana was talking about were the bonds of ownership (property). You are speaking of slavery as social status (the fact that the other men in your master's circle regard you as a slave, and servile with respect to them). Both are important in the life of a Gorean girl in my experience. Edana has, at this point in her development, certainly experienced more of the former than the latter, but she has served some at the feet of other men.

What she was expressing is that, while a man is perfectly capable of owning more than one slave, a slave girl has an instinctive drive submit herself to and belong to one man. In my experience, slave girls don't usually do well for long as community property. How do you think you'd fare if you were a girl who belonged to the circle in general, rather than being your master's girl, who is of service to those within his circle because he says so? It's not a rhetorical question. Maybe you're going to teach me something about slave girls that's news to me.

quote:

This in the end, is the beauty of Gorean slavery. Learning who one is entirely, and their unique attributes that can be pleasing to Men....one's unique "gifts" as it were. Because when all is said and done... a kajira is a pleasure slave...who comes into full bloom when she learns how to serve her own blend of beauty and grace and whispering elegance to all Gorean men. Most assuredly, not something one could do if as female they were not able to have a bond to more than one Male.

I think that any of the men who have seen edana in a group setting would tell you that she really REALLY has no issue with wanting to be pleasing in the eyes of men. She is a slave and a slut, and has no illusions otherwise, just as you are. Again, I think you just missed each other on the definition of "bond". At the end of the day, even though a slave and a slut who wishes to serve and please strong men, edana feels the need to know that she is in the chains of exactly one man, and that he, not she, will decide the hour and manner of her service. Again, I think it's a natural, evolved drive in women to seek out a man to whom they would submit themselves in the hopes of being kept as his own.

quote:

Being Gorean afterall for Men is about community, and brotherhood both of which are not things we as girls can entirely get a full grasp of...and community comes from unity...not seperation and so the bonds between a girl and her Owner develop over time...but should never become a seperate entity from the community...doing so would hinder the Man from living as His Gorean self.

We part company here a little bit. I can keep a slut in the closet (literally or figuratively, take your pick) and show her to nobody, and it won't hinder me at all in living as a Gorean man or even participating in a Gorean community. I personally wouldn't because I'd end up with a less valuable girl for my trouble, but the fact remains.

quote:

Life is a learning curve edana...and you have come so far...yet still have far to go...happy walking, Master Leonidas will not let you stumble.

Oh, sure I will. I will simply require that she get back up, rather than stumbling with her. So it goes, until she becomes what she will be.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 12/25/2005 1:01:41 PM >

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RE: additional slaves - 12/25/2005 1:25:28 PM

barelynangel

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quote:

At the end of the day, even though a slave and a slut who wishes to serve and please strong men, edana feels the need to know that she is in the chains of exactly one man, and that he, not she, will decide the hour and manner of her service.

I think this is a lot of how i feel... without the knowledge and solidification or as Master Leonidas here has so scrumptiously put it "in the chains" i so think i have a fetish here lol of complete ownership of that one man, i honestly don't think my motives of being found pleasing by Men is the same as that of a slave who does know it and feel it.

Without being owned by one man, on some level to me its the same exact feeling i had before i was owned... i feel the power that i detest.. and for that it makes me resent them. yeah yeah i know lol how dare i when i am not owned and lol feel power within a circle of Men and feel resentment towards them because of it when i should just want to serve them and be pleasing... and still call myself slave. Some days, i have no clue why i do lol.

I hope everyone had a great Christmas and Holiday.

angel

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RE: additional slaves - 12/27/2005 6:16:08 PM

bottominwa

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Master Leonidas,

Sorry...school, work, kids...Holiday...just getting to this.

You know as always You make a fabulous point. she really has no clue how a girl would act as complete and total community property...we have as a group taken in girls however, they ofcourse were housed out immediately and if not owned..."kept" so similar concept.
But she still reads again, on rereading edana's post that her thought was girls can not have a bond to more than one Male. If she means ownership bond...this girl certainly couldn't construe that from what she said...but if that is what she meant...certainly it makes more sense coming from a Gorean slave.
As for community...its not this girl's place to tell You Master Leonidas what You would prefer or not prefer in relationship to community. Each of us only goes by what we see and live...and she knows a very large part of how we live here is our community..it grounds us and rejuvenates us.

Thanks for the insight as always,

sabrina King

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 7:02:08 AM

nephandi

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i disagree one one point, it was mentiond that for men it was aboute brotherhood, and that a girl can not truly grasp, i feel that any woman, slave or not can bond whit her peers, just like any man can. When i bond whit fellow occultis, or a group of other like minded pepole, i do it as strongly as my male conterparts, it may be i do not understand what edena said properly but for me it makes no sense, i am sorry.

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 7:26:18 AM

fyreredsub

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unique bonds may exist with other Master that one does not serve in the wanting to be found pleasing to them sense but serves them and learns from them because it is her nature to do so, having too many bonds w/ too many Masters becomes confusing for this girl. she can actually only feel/need/want the chains that bind ,,to one.
i need to feel the sense of belonging, in one manner, but the ownership and control is what is needed.
i hope this makes sense in my pre-java quota for the day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bottominwa

Just an aside from something edana said: "Men are different from women. Master can feel affection and bond for more than one woman."
In this girl's life she serves a circle of Men. So the above statement doesn't ring true to her. she has seen in her life, we as girls are also capable of having service bonds to many Men, not just our Owners. The key here is that bonds are unique. Certainly, the love this girl has belonging to her Owner, is not the daughterly bond she has to the Patriarch of Our clan or the tit for tat fun loving romp she has with some others of Our circle.
Moreover, she has to contend with Free Women of the cirlce, and her relationship to them, and the Men she serves and it can be a slippery slope...but again...to all things a purpose, to all times a season.
Much of being a Gorean slave, inside a Gorean community...not just inside one house...but within a circle, family or clan is about knowing one's place in context. At her home, she is first girl. At Papa's she is a kajira, and in His life subjugate to His Free Companion. At parties she is one of many girls, who knows her own worth and her unique attributes.
This in the end, is the beauty of Gorean slavery. Learning who one is entirely, and their unique attributes that can be pleasing to Men....one's unique "gifts" as it were. Because when all is said and done... a kajira is a pleasure slave...who comes into full bloom when she learns how to serve her own blend of beauty and grace and whispering elegance to all Gorean men. Most assuredly, not something one could do if as female they were not able to have a bond to more than one Male.
Being Gorean afterall for Men is about community, and brotherhood both of which are not things we as girls can entirely get a full grasp of...and community comes from unity...not seperation and so the bonds between a girl and her Owner develop over time...but should never become a seperate entity from the community...doing so would hinder the Man from living as His Gorean self.
Life is a learning curve edana...and you have come so far...yet still have far to go...happy walking, Master Leonidas will not let you stumble.

sabrina King

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 3:42:23 PM

edana

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quote:

i disagree one one point, it was mentiond that for men it was aboute brotherhood, and that a girl can not truly grasp, i feel that any woman, slave or not can bond whit her peers, just like any man can. When i bond whit fellow occultis, or a group of other like minded pepole, i do it as strongly as my male conterparts, it may be i do not understand what edena said properly but for me it makes no sense, i am sorry.

i was not specific enough and for that i apologise. My master knew what i was refering to and he tried to re-state my point. I was refering to the bond that exists between an owner and owned. an owned girl feels a specifec bond to her owner (1 to 1). a owner can feel a bond to all that he ownes (1 to 2, or 3 or 4).

I can serve another man, but i feel no where near the "bond" with him that i do when i serve my owner. In my makeup. for me. it's not possible. my master believes this is true of most females. people are different, and have different "pressure points" based on past experiences, and such... i'd be more than happy to be held in reserve for my masters use alone. In his arms i am the slut that he has trained. in his arms i know safely, and love. perhaps someday i will know/learn differently.

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 5:12:27 PM

LadiesBladewing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

What she was expressing is that, while a man is perfectly capable of owning more than one slave, a slave girl has an instinctive drive submit herself to and belong to one man. In my experience, slave girls don't usually do well for long as community property. How do you think you'd fare if you were a girl who belonged to the circle in general, rather than being your master's girl, who is of service to those within his circle because he says so? It's not a rhetorical question. Maybe you're going to teach me something about slave girls that's news to me.

Actually, I served for 8 years in a House where I wore a House collar and answered equally to the 3 men and 2 woman who made up the Household core. I was 'community property" for all of that time, and, if anything, it did me good, and made it possible for me to focus on -service-, rather than on any one individual. I was brought into the household by one of the women, and trained most often by one of the men and one of the women. We had 7 other servants in the exact same situation, some of them male, some female and one TG-MtF. It may not be experienced often or common, but it isn't necessarily outside of a woman's wiring.

It worked so well that it will continue to be the standard by which any servant is accepted into our household -- they will be common property, owned by all and serving all.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 12/28/2005 5:13:48 PM >

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 5:36:11 PM

nephandi

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Ok edena thank you for clearifying, i think i am a bit like you, i would not develop the same bond to many men as to one owner, i might respect, care for, wish to pleese, even cherish or in so ways love more than one man, but only he that may be my Master one day have that special place that none else get to see.

i would however i think after getting used to it, go well whit other slaves serving beside me. Ofcourse i dont know and i am sure i am at first would be scared of the change and jealous, but i think that would pass.

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 5:54:31 PM

barelynangel

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Lady Zephyr ... after reading what you have stated here one thing keeps popping into my head is... and yet, now you are a Free Woman.

I wish you a good night.

angel

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 6:54:51 PM

LadiesBladewing

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Yes, and quite frankly, had 2 of my Owners not died and completely changed the dynamic of the Household, I might never have been freed. I accept that, and also accept that I was freed. I did not ask for release, but was brought before the family's Council, and -told- that I could choose to be released and seek elsewhere, or, if I were of a mind to, I could continue on with the Household, using my training and my experience in the management of the House and the training of new servants to come.

I will always cherish the experience of having been brought to service by SilverRose and Luke. It was a fascinating lesson and counterpoint to my years in service in the monastery, in preparation for training others in seminary, and an interesting perspective that was much more intimate than the enormity of what it was that I served in the monastery. My service to the monastery was in the service of knowledge, wisdom, and the movement of the Universe -- noble, but etherial concepts. My service to House Bladewing as a servant brought home the practical, pragmatic, daily applications of service to life. Now, as I stand before a new servant who is humbled in his or her service, I can show them, because I know the steps intimately, where they will begin their journey -- and I can guide them with wisdom and a measure of strict compassion back onto the path when they stray or lose their way.

I have no shame in either having served House Bladewing as a servant, or in being freed by the House to take my place there. I would not have traded the 8 years I had as a servant for anything, and I would give anything to have our men back... but the Wheel turns, and life goes on, and we grow, and we change.

It is also important to note that according to the books that are the only real indication of what Gorean society was like, and in the histories of many of the cultures that the Gorean books mirror, -every- girl learned to serve, from the time that she could walk...even those from noble or highly-placed families... just in case she was captured as a slave, so that she would not be killed for being unpleasing before she could figure out what she had to do. Most of them (approximately 60-70% of Gorean women) were never collared to slavery, and yet they were trained in the arts of the slave.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Lady Zephyr ... after reading what you have stated here one thing keeps popping into my head is... and yet, now you are a Free Woman.

I wish you a good night.

angel

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RE: additional slaves - 12/28/2005 7:28:11 PM

nephandi

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i am getting frightend, t seam so many owners, Masters and Doms just die, i hear it all the time, they died, it may be me just reading to mutch in to this, but i am getting a knot in my stomack and is getting realy frigtend, the run ning and hiding from the world and crying frightend, i have read of this more and more often lately, do lifestyle pepole, especialy Dominants die more often than vanilla pepole? Ok sorry for posting of topic but i realy got scared.

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RE: additional slaves - 12/30/2005 6:01:45 PM

SirDarkside357

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In my family unit all slaves are there to serve me, that doesn't mean that other relationships might not happen, but they will be secondary to serving the Master of the family unit. I have a set way thet my family unit is organised, you can read about it if you wish on my yahoo profile under this same name, there is a link to my web page on that profile. If you do deside to read the page and have questions, I welcome them, however, if you read it and want to argue against my way, save your breath, I am not trying to convince you that I am write so I really don't care if you don't agree. It works for me, it isn't for everyone, but for those that are interested, it is a great way of live...not easy, but few things that are good are easy.

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RE: additional slaves - 12/30/2005 7:39:05 PM

LadiesBladewing

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We lost our 2 going on 5 years ago now. One was not as much of a surprise as it might have been. Luke was in a dangerous profession, but one he loved, and we knew that because he worked each and every day around explosives and large masses of concrete, steel and stone, he was at risk. He chose to take those risks, and we cherished every day and every moment with him, and worried about him when he was away -- but I could no more see him in an office than I could see a leopard as an apartment pet. Some beings -- animal or human -- are wild and proud and will not be caged.

It was the loss of Phantom that was a huge shock for us. He died of a ruptured aneurysm, and we had -no- warning... and, in fact, he died in Lady SR's arms before he could even be diagnosed.

Life, and death, comes to all of us in its time. We learned so much from the losses -- about how precious life is, how important it is to love (and to serve) with everything in you every day, because you may not -have- tomorrow to show how much someone means to you. After the losses, we learned how to survive, and eventually to thrive. We learned that loss doesn't mean the end of life for those who are still alive, and that ones life-work doesn't' end just because someone one cherishes can no longer help them to complete it.

It is scary, especially for those who have never contemplated death, but I am not afraid of dying, nor is SR afraid of what it will mean to lose me, nor I her. We know that a part of what we are will always be with each other. We know this, because we've experienced the physical loss, but the remaining spiritual connection. We cherish each moment as precious, and don't waste any of them. We allow ourselves to be guided by our ethics and our dignity, try to make good choices for ourselves, and understand how our choices will affect those around us... in general, we accept life, death, and the inevitable turning of the Wheel.

Cherish your life, and live honestly and fully... you'll never be sorry, no matter what happens to challenge you.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

i am getting frightend, t seam so many owners, Masters and Doms just die, i hear it all the time, they died, it may be me just reading to mutch in to this, but i am getting a knot in my stomack and is getting realy frigtend, the run ning and hiding from the world and crying frightend, i have read of this more and more often lately, do lifestyle pepole, especialy Dominants die more often than vanilla pepole? Ok sorry for posting of topic but i realy got scared.

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RE: additional slaves - 2/18/2006 1:33:05 AM

unownedredhead

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An interesting thread. No Masters/Dominants do not die more than vanilla males. I say that even as the widown of my Husband/Master. It would be easy to just say that some peoples flames burn brighter so burn shorter. That would be the easy way out to explain things. I think you have that perception because of the love of a slave girl. We love deeply, competley and are devistated when we lose that love. We don't go in half hearted to a relationship because our moms always wanted us to marry a dentist. We go into relationships with the full devotion and absolute servitude of a slave girl. Of course we wail about it years later. And Edina you are right we do always crave to be our Masters one and only love slave. When I read your posts you sound happy. Tal, sister may the moons of Gor light your way in the darkness.

dina

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RE: additional slaves - 2/18/2006 12:33:52 PM

Leonidas

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edit

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/18/2006 12:34:28 PM >

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RE: additional slaves - 2/18/2006 12:35:06 PM

edana

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greetings unownedredhead,

thank you for your well wishes, i too wish you happiness and contentedness in your slavery.

in response to the fact that i always seem happy, well.. yes mostly i am, i am well mastered, so for me that means that that need in my life is met. since that need was very strong and such a big part of my life... i, for the most part am extremely happy!

I do have my moments when i feel at a loss. some days i just want to grab my cc and take a trip... smiles* i have noticed that as i am moving up in my profession i feel a ... power... that power belongs to my master, he is the one i work for and who i am accountable too. I owe him feality for the advances in all parts of my life. But i am human, and just a girl, who for the most part is surpassing most of her friends and family in growth of self and finances. Sometimes, i just want to stand at the top of a mountain and roar... just because i can.

That is when i beg to kiss his leather... and once again, i am that little girl who loves her master, and thinks of his pleasure before her own.

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RE: additional slaves - 2/18/2006 12:52:30 PM

Webmaster60

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quote:

This may be sounding frustrating but i don't get it and it turns me off time and again when women approach me instead of the Masters. The Masters approached the first slave didn't they? So what makes the additional slave less in value of his initial time and such? I guess part of this comes from the Action/reaction idea of mastering...

For me, in seeking a second, I will always have the slave seek a sister. Why? Well for one, I don't feel like dealing with the mentally taxing task of sorting out the slaves from the wanna-be brats. I'll leave that leg-work to the slave. 2nd, while I'm not particularly interested whether my slave would or would not like the girl I chose, the reality is it WILL impact the house. Sure, they will endure one another if it is my wish, but since they will be spending the most time together, why not let the slave seek and find one whom she shares similiar interests and common goals with? If my slave found a potential, then I would then begin communicating with the prospect and see if I was satisfied with her.
Honestly, a new prospect would imo, take much stock in the current slaves perspective on her Master and could provide the prospect that information. All in all, it seems to me that it saves time, effort and greatly reduces the "false alarms" on new prospects.

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RE: additional slaves - 2/19/2006 10:27:36 PM

unownedredhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: edana

But i am human, and just a girl, who for the most part is surpassing most of her friends and family in growth of self and finances. Sometimes, i just want to stand at the top of a mountain and roar... just because i can.

That is when i beg to kiss his leather... and once again, i am that little girl who loves her master, and thinks of his pleasure before her own.

Tal edana,

You again have made me smile and even brought tears to my eyes. I miss the taste of leather on my lips. You are a treasure. I would so love to talk with you sometime in a less public way if it would be ok with your Master.

dina

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