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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 8:36:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia

I would also suggest that you get yourself STD tested, now and again in six months. There's absolutely no telling what kind of risk you're at by having sexual contact with a stranger. If she was fine with putting your emotional well-being at risk she may very well be more than capable of putting your health at risk as well.

I assumed that a condom was used, if it wasn't then everybody involved should be beaten for stupidity, and that beating would be strictly unkinky. Anybody who in this time and age has unprotected sex with strangers must have a death wish!

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 8:50:03 AM

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Even if a condom was used there is still a chance for unpleasant things to occur. And given that the OP was talked into accepting a scene he was not interested in I didn't think to assume that he'd insist on protection. He may have. And good on him if that's the case. Now he needs to use that same gumption to insist on his limits being respected.

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 10:05:22 AM

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It is possible for dominants to cross a boundary by exploiting the moment when one is in subspace, or by leaning against the desperation created by ratios

I've had the ratios one played on me before, Sea ("There are thousands of subs; do what I want or I'll find someone else" etc), but not been exploited while in subspace. That one bothers me. Care to expand a little - an example, maybe?

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 10:12:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
The OT said he didn't say a thing, well, it is his body, he SHOULD say NO if it is violating a hard limit, a domme is not a mind reader.

I am not willing to give her the benefit of doubt and think that she did not know this scene would be a boundary for him. Here is what the OP says:

quote:

I am straight and she knows that.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 10:25:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
<snip> but not been exploited while in subspace. That one bothers me. Care to expand a little - an example, maybe?

Sure thing. When a sub is in subspace, he might be in a space where he does not want to do anything to displease a dominant or disrupt the D/s space that is present at the moment. In the heat of the moment, he might remain silent about something which was previously described as a boundary. A dominant could unfairly exploit this tendency. In my opinion, this scenario is what occurred in the case at hand.

Also, it is possible that a sub will put aside otherwise good, rational judgment because of being in an altered state of mind and agree to do something he had previously identified as a limit. I am not sure how much faith one can put in negotiations that are done while one is in subspace.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 10:42:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
The OT said he didn't say a thing, well, it is his body, he SHOULD say NO if it is violating a hard limit, a domme is not a mind reader.

I am not willing to give her the benefit of doubt and think that she did not know this scene would be a boundary for him. Here is what the OP says:

quote:

I am straight and she knows that.

Cheers,

Sea

quote:

After 5 or maybe 10 minutes she said she want to watch me how I fucked by a shemale. I am straight and she knows that.
I didnt say anything to not make her feel bad in front of her friend. I concantrate and dream that I am having a strap-on action not with a shemale. I did what she wants. She said that she likes it so much, and want us to make it again for next meeting.

The fact that he didn't say a thing and went along with it makes me give her the benefit of the doubt, from the way he writes it, at no point in time he said "Stop it, I am straight, it is NOT what I want!"

Also the fact that he dreamed it is strap-on makes me think he possibly gave the impression that he went along willingly, then after it happened he gets scruples (a lot of guys do, even after strap-on, they are VERY eager to tell you they are actually straight, almost as if they have to justify themselves), I think it is a classic case of "Think about it before and not after"

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 10:56:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
The fact that he didn't say a thing and went along with it makes me give her the benefit of the doubt, from the way he writes it, at no point in time he said "Stop it, I am straight, it is NOT what I want!"

To say that he did not say anything is to draw upon the well-the-sub-didn't-say-anything defense. I think this defense works when intentions are genuine, which I am not convinced was the case this time.

She knew he was straight. Therefore, in my opinion it is not that she did not know she was going against a boundary, but instead she was trying to see whether she could ooch her way past a boundary, hoping that he would not say anything. This boundary, especially if she enjoys watching men be sexual with each other, is not one that could easily be forgotten and required a reminder.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 11:02:34 AM

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This whole thing bothers me hugely.

I play with friends, people whose thinking processes, likes and dislikes, I know somewhat. We discuss what we're going to do in advance, so that no one hits a hard limit in the process. (For example, I have one friend who has a screaming flashback inducing hard limit at rabbit fur in sensory play due to a very traumatic incident in childhood.) We discuss where soft limits are. And I dominate with the knowledge that I am working with someone else's trust and mind, and so much prefer to err on the side of non-damage.

It sounds to me like you went into it too fast and found a dominant whose style is ethically shady and wrong for you.

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 11:13:38 AM

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Well, I'm terrible sorry but I guess then all the subs should really look for a Domme who's a psychic, because personally I would not touch anybody who is not even grown up to open his mouth and make a decision for himself, I'm playing strictly with adults, if somebody isn't able to behave like one, it's a hard limit for me and I am able to stand by mine. In fact if somebody would come with that story to me and wanted to session, I would turn him down without even thinking. Somebody who can't say NO is not an adult, which means not a play partner for me.

He claims she knew that he was straight, well how? He said he likes women or did he explicitly say "NO MEN, HARD LIMIT!"

Sorry, but anybody who can't make his or her hard limits clear should not indulge in BDSM, they are a danger to themselves and others. And putting the blame on her because he didn't open his mouth and went along.... Sorry, doesn't fly, he is responsible for himself too. Being submissive does not mean that you lost your spine and guts, quite the opposite!

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
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http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 11:16:02 AM

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Just a thought-floating-through interjection:
There are A LOT of men who call themselves straight who have sex with men.
Davan

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 11:24:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Just a thought-floating-through interjection:
There are A LOT of men who call themselves straight who have sex with men.
Davan

True, most of them insist on calling it "forced-bi", also quite a lot of cross-dressers are straight but when in drag they are into men, not all of them but a fair amount of them.

The fact that she sprung it on him after such a short period of time makes it wrong, but to lay the blame exclusively on her is also wrong, from the way he describes it, he didn't give her the impression that he was against it, now that would have been his responsibility, he let it happen.

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 11:37:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
He claims she knew that he was straight, well how? He said he likes women or did he explicitly say "NO MEN, HARD LIMIT!"

Sorry, but anybody who can't make his or her hard limits clear should not indulge in BDSM, they are a danger to themselves and others. And putting the blame on her because he didn't open his mouth and went along.... Sorry, doesn't fly, he is responsible for himself too. Being submissive does not mean that you lost your spine and guts, quite the opposite!

I don't put all responsibility on her and maintain my position that it is a shared responsibility. However, I do not absolve her of any responsibility and I question her ethics.

You raise a valid point; how well did he convey that homosexual activity is a boundary for him? My position relies on the assumption that he conveyed he was straight. In my opinion, if a man has identified himself as straight he has provided information to the domme. If she is interested to see whether he will have sex with men under the context of D/s even though he is straight--which some men do--I think she should ask him rather than assume it and test it while he is in subspace.

To me the scene seems calculated. It seems she had another man over intentionally. And to me it seems to have him come out for about 5-10 minutes was part of the ooch approach. It seems to me that she knew this area would be a boundary for him but planned the scene to go beyond it. Therefore, I don't think she innocently crossed this boundary without knowing she was doing it but instead did so deliberately hoping he would not stop her. If she had crossed the boundary innocently, I would see basis for the dommes-aren't-psychic argument.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 11:53:59 AM

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I am not sure how much faith one can put in negotiations that are done while one is in subspace.

Blimey, Sea - surely you understate?

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:04:08 PM

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I think the fact that the shemale joined them and they talked for a while is pretty much an indicator that she was feeling him out and gave him a chance to say "Mistress, no offense but I do prefer women" or "Oh now, if it would be a real woman I would be excited..."

I would judge her much more harshly if she would just have sprung the other participant on him without giving him a chance to veto.

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There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:11:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch

This whole thing bothers me hugely.

I play with friends, people whose thinking processes, likes and dislikes, I know somewhat. We discuss what we're going to do in advance, so that no one hits a hard limit in the process. (For example, I have one friend who has a screaming flashback inducing hard limit at rabbit fur in sensory play due to a very traumatic incident in childhood.) We discuss where soft limits are. And I dominate with the knowledge that I am working with someone else's trust and mind, and so much prefer to err on the side of non-damage.

It sounds to me like you went into it too fast and found a dominant whose style is ethically shady and wrong for you.

I don't know if that was directed at me or the OP, Alexandra. However, in my case, the woman concerned produced a hitherto unmentioned husband who wanted to watch. The result for me was a lot more fortunate than it was for the OP, though. I wasn't in subspace nor anywhere near it at the critical moment. I burst out laughing, got dressed and went home.

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:12:34 PM

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First of all, when I read this OP, I'm going to tell you that I thought it was a bunch of bunk. It sounded more like a fantasy of someone who was interested in having sex with a male (I don't care about the clothes) under the old guise of 'my dominant made me' and it was wank material. Don't ever be surprised at how popular this little idea is out there. I happen to think the reason it for it being so is because it's a pathway for them to have same sex adventures, without the guilt associated with such while doing the deed. Yes, often guilt comes later, but they still have that nice cushion to fall on. "Oh, I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for My Dominant."

Anyway, any of us who have engaged in encouraged bi with a submissive know just how much really goes into it. There is a lot of background work, especially if it's someone's first time. Even then, after all of the talking, watching the reactions during those talks, planning, and everything else, it isn't foolproof. Some can still have bad reactions later due to social conditioning, even if they enjoyed the scene at the time. Let's not forget the planning that goes into the other end (sorry for the pun). That means you have to come up with the other participant. Somebody who fits the general concept of what you want (in this case, the aforementioned 'shemale'..... I hate even using the term) who is willing to come in and fuck someone who might be obviously opposed or bound and gagged or what have you. Even worse, if severe guilt and remorse set in the following day, who knows what will happen. All of that isn't as easy to orchastrate as it seems, when the other party just shows up and the game is on.

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:15:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Just a thought-floating-through interjection:
There are A LOT of men who call themselves straight who have sex with men.
Davan

True, most of them insist on calling it "forced-bi", also quite a lot of cross-dressers are straight but when in drag they are into men, not all of them but a fair amount of them.

The fact that she sprung it on him after such a short period of time makes it wrong, but to lay the blame exclusively on her is also wrong, from the way he describes it, he didn't give her the impression that he was against it, now that would have been his responsibility, he let it happen.

I've known men on both sides of the kneel and in no way involved with bdsm who say they're straight but have sex with men. Personally, inaccurate use of terminology annoys me but < shrug >.
I completely agree with what you said about them bearing mutual responsibility in the situation described with the information we have.
Davan

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May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:22:35 PM

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In most contexts where the subject of the emotional maturity of young men gets discussed, Lady C, people are generally quite scathing. Young men are considered to have little or none of it, frankly. And they're not greatly known for being articulate, either.

Here, we have a young man, and one who may have the extra difficulty of trying to cope with what might feel like contradictory needs - to be both submissive and assertive (assertive enough to state his limits, for instance). That's a tall order. I think with young, inexperienced sub males, its incumbent on dominants to do a lot of careful questioning and discussing. At least as much as they'd do with a young, inexperienced female sub, in fact.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/24/2008 12:31:12 PM >

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RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:23:47 PM

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quote:

First of all, when I read this OP, I'm going to tell you that I thought it was a bunch of bunk. It sounded more like a fantasy of someone who was interested in having sex with a male (I don't care about the clothes) under the old guise of 'my dominant made me' and it was wank material. Don't ever be surprised at how popular this little idea is out there. I happen to think the reason it for it being so is because it's a pathway for them to have same sex adventures, without the guilt associated with such while doing the deed. Yes, often guilt comes later, but they still have that nice cushion to fall on. "Oh, I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for My Dominant."

Uhhhh yes, during my pro phase, I always laughed when somebody used the phrase "forced bi", how bloody forced is it if you actually request it and pay for it?

I recently joked with Irene Boss about it, she thinks the whole term "forced bi" is actually an insult to gays and that the guys, her exact words were:

"It's one thing if a person is bi or gay and they want a "forced sex scene" but pretending to be straight when you want to suck a dick in front of a Mistress is just plain silly, so we need a new sexual definition for this Fem Dom BDSM anomaly.
If a dick goes in your mouth guys, you are not straight anymore. Sorry. You are a fake gay slave, which is a slave to a man's cock and then the cock is really the Mistress."

I joked that next time I am going to buy bread, I'll call it forced bread, because I request it, pay for it....

I have no issue with people's sexual orientations, whatever floats your boat, but the whole requested "forced" stuff is just plain silly!

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Am I faithful or stupid? - 11/24/2008 12:28:30 PM

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Ergo, My personal preference of the term "encouraged bi."

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

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