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RE: why? - 12/31/2008 12:37:48 PM   
Naturallurker


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General reply,

having dyslexia does not of its self make one disabled, nor is it a measure of I.Q. many articulate and erudite men and women are dyslexic. Those who wish to blame any condition for their failings or short comings have a long way to go before they grasp one of Gorean philosophies basic concepts.



(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: why? - 12/31/2008 3:08:23 PM   
Nemesys


Posts: 148
Joined: 9/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


You have troubles. We actually care. But EVERYONE has troubles. Learn and grow. It will take time, and one day--and this is NOT a cut--you will be truly a man, and the girls will melt. And when you are such a man, they will trust you, because you will truly be worth their trust. You will also note that you earn the attention/respect of the other men.

Listen.

In time, it will be worth it.



Tim,

Exceptionally well said,  and Happy New Year.

- N


_____________________________

"The knife is no less a knife because it makes no sound." -Tarl Cabot

http://goreanunity.org

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: why? - 12/31/2008 7:56:20 PM   
KarRagnon


Posts: 48
Joined: 10/8/2006
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You have been told several times why it is that you are questioned. Everyone has to start somewhere and in most cases, it's usually at the bottom. Experience comes with age and the longer you live the more you learn there son. My advice to you is simply this:  Stop whining about being questioned and learn. The only dumb assed question is one not asked! When questioned as to why, simply take the time to reflect on what it was that brought about the questioning in the first place. Oft times, when one cannot accept constructive criticism, it tends to blind them to the true learning experience. Mastery isn't something that comes easy for any Man and it just doesn't jump up and bite you in the ass either. It is quite a harsh reality when it comes to owning a slave and taking on the responsibility of another individual. The upkeep, financial and otherwise are something that can weigh heavily. The road is a learning experience for both Owner and owned. Getting to know yourselves and one another takes time......Much time!
From an outward appearence, it all looks like peaches and cream.......But when your in it.......The weight can get heavy on even the toughest shoulders......Take your time there son and don't be so damn testy when questioned.
Strive for excellence.........Anything less is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

_____________________________

"One does not know, truly, what it is to stand, until one has fallen. Once one has fallen, then one knows, you see, what it is to stand"

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(in reply to MIntribus)
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RE: why? - 12/31/2008 8:12:16 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1396
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Because someone who is young hasnt had the life experiences to master themselves. You need to Master yourself before you can truly Master others. Those who are younger dont have the self control that is developed through maturity. this is why..


I've known 19-year-old dominants that, until I found out their actual age, I thought were in their 50s. I met such people at a time when I'd had years of experience living as a slave, so it wasn't exactly inexperience informing my opinion. While such people are the exception, not the rule, these extraordinary exceptions lead me to believe that there is something other than chronological years that contributes to self-control, objectiveness, restraint, clear-headed judgement, compassion, and other traits we associate with maturity. All of this can begin even younger than 19, in fact.

I'm much more inclined to believe the theory that years do not make maturity, however,  thanks to an opposite experience, granted by this wonderful website, in which men in their 4th, 5th, and 6th decades not infreqently demonstrate a level of emotional sophistication and self-contol that would totally shame an eight year old.

When it comes to maturity, quite clearly there is something at work here that has little or nothing to do with the amount of time served on one's life sentence. But what does it have to do with then? What are the actual roots of maturity? That's a question that's been puzzling me for years.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
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RE: why? - 12/31/2008 8:45:31 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I've known 19-year-old dominants that, until I found out their actual age, I thought were in their 50s.


You must be fantastically unobservant.

Either that, or your interactions were strictly online.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/31/2008 8:47:21 PM >


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(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: why? - 12/31/2008 10:08:36 PM   
amelliagrace


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Hello, MIntribus -
 
You've been given much excellent information and advice thus far in this thread.  I'll refrain from commenting agreement on the many excellent points made by others.  Instead, I'd like to offer you my personal views on men, age, maturity, and experience.
 
From the moment I began to look at males as more than simply buddies or annoying pains in the ass on the school playground, I've had a definite preference for males older than myself.  There have been exceptions, but most of those have fallen almost exclusively into the Friends catagory - and most of my closest friends, thru my entire life to this point, have been men.  I have made exceptions, however.  In point of fact, one particularly stellar friendship that has developed in the last year and a half is with a man under 30 - unheard of, for me.  Doesn't change the reality that it is the exception, rather than the rule, in my own life.
 
The rare occaisions when I made an exception, took a chance on a younger male, in matters of the heart, have ranged from the disappointing to the life threatening.  That said, I readily own this as my personal experience, and NOT "The way it always is."  I don't dislike younger men, or distrust them, or avoid them, based on a check of their ID.  I don't paint them all with the same brush, either.  What I do know is that the things I most enjoy, appreciate, and respect in men are more common in older guys.  That is not a value judgement of you personally, or any other young man - and real men, imo, need to get over thinking that it is.
 
I question everyone I think might be worth getting to know.  I question anyone of interest that crosses my path.  I question my friends - even moreso than I do my foes.  When we question others, we are testing there mettle, certainly.  Just as often, we are attempting to clarify the picture we have of who they are, and of what they are saying, asking, or needing.  It isn't just about weighing, measuring, and judging.  It is also about attempting to communicate accurately, learning, understanding, and more.  If I consider someone to be total waste of time, effort, and oxygen, I'm not going to bother with more than a question or two.  If they don't even register at all on the interest scale, I probably won't even bother with the first question.
 
Male or not, it would stand you in good stead to remember that it isn't all about you, when it comes to interpersonal communication and social interaction.  Don't take it as such.
 
It is my personal experience that Men who do in fact know themselves well, like themselves, are comfortable in their own skin, are possessed of quality ethics and character.....don't get their knickers in a twist over being questioned.  They tend to accept it as a normal and healthy part off life.  As an opportunity to learn - and to teach.  As an opportunity to in turn measure the questioner.  If you find yourself reacting defensively in discussions such as this one, there is probably good to be had from taking a hard look inward to determine why.
 
In the New Testement, Paul once wrote to Timothy, the young whipper-snapper, "Let no man despise thy youth.".  Another way of saying that, in modern day English, is "Don't give anyone a reason to hold your youth against you."  Think about that one a bit.  Regardless of how you feel about things Biblical, there is a lot to ponder in that line.
 
Grace

(in reply to MIntribus)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: why? - 12/31/2008 11:05:45 PM   
Hiskajirah


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Greetings CaringandReal

I do believe that the actual roots of maturity can only come with age and progression into later age. The reason I believe this is due to the fact that an 18 year old cannot possess the learning experiences as a 30 year old. I also believe it is possible though not likely that a 30 year old can possess the maturity and experiences of a 50 year old.

Maturity matures at levels of living, education, having a strong work ethic, a code of ethics, understanding choice, making decisions, facing the outcomes, fixing errors, maintaining consistency, accepting life's downfalls, having the courage to pick it back up and start again despite the hills and valleys which might discourage accomplishment. Where there's a will, there's a way.

While a man of early 20's may have already lived a life filled with the trials and tribulations of a man of 50, he is still only in his 20's. He may have learned to cope and accept life's ups and downs, but the probability of him doing so more than likely lies only upon the ability of doing so only for himself. He may achieve this for himself and this is a great achievement in itself, but having another, a submissive or a slave to also take care of, and take care of in the same way during good, bad, or similar to his own previous mishaps, changes everything. Having learned and succeeded in hard times may give him a head start at a young age, but has he been able to master himself thoroughly through his early and young learning experience? I highly doubt it. He has to have been already capable of mastering himself in order to fully master another. Roots of maturity include accepting consequences, enduring them, resolving them, standing firm, beating the odds when it seems all odds are against him and being his own person. above all others. This means be you, don't follow. Agree if it's what you truly believe, disagree if it's how you feel, but don't agree just so you might think you're fitting in.

In my experience and observance, Goreans do what they say and say what they do. Gorean men lead from their own beliefs, expectations, codes and convictions (Which are generally similar to their fellow Goreans, but not always)  and while others may not agree with a post in part or in it's entirety, respect for the thought, idea or belief is respected.

Actual roots of maturity?

If you whine, continuously say you are sorry, call pity upon yourself directly or indirectly (meaning perhaps you don't even know you're doing it, but we do), pout and have a personality or demeanor that thinks or believes everyone is out to get you, um...  With all due respect, you haven't even reached a novice level of maturity. Often times even a novice would not attempt to seek a type of sympathy but instead would be thankful for the information they receive and make no excuses for any short comings or obstacles which might be in their way.

Read what's offered by all, re read it and seek to understand it.

I wish you well,
~twinkle

quote:

What are the actual roots of maturity?
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Because someone who is young hasnt had the life experiences to master themselves. You need to Master yourself before you can truly Master others. Those who are younger dont have the self control that is developed through maturity. this is why..


I've known 19-year-old dominants that, until I found out their actual age, I thought were in their 50s. I met such people at a time when I'd had years of experience living as a slave, so it wasn't exactly inexperience informing my opinion. While such people are the exception, not the rule, these extraordinary exceptions lead me to believe that there is something other than chronological years that contributes to self-control, objectiveness, restraint, clear-headed judgement, compassion, and other traits we associate with maturity. All of this can begin even younger than 19, in fact.

I'm much more inclined to believe the theory that years do not make maturity, however,  thanks to an opposite experience, granted by this wonderful website, in which men in their 4th, 5th, and 6th decades not infreqently demonstrate a level of emotional sophistication and self-contol that would totally shame an eight year old.

When it comes to maturity, quite clearly there is something at work here that has little or nothing to do with the amount of time served on one's life sentence. But what does it have to do with then? What are the actual roots of maturity? That's a question that's been puzzling me for years.


_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: why? - 1/1/2009 12:07:48 AM   
Saffleur


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Lenoir NC
Status: offline
Tal MIntribus,

I was going to originally read over this whole thread, then when I saw the topic my immediate thought was "Yep, there's a ruckus in there"

I've been there, I've wondered it but not voiced it. No need to voice what I knew the answer to be. It would be redundant.

Best advice I can give you when you're going to be around Goreans, this is the Gorean forum after all, is this.

  • Be Yourself not what you "think" you are.
  • Look to your peers, they may not consider you so at first but still do so and listen to what they say. The wealth of knowledge is there.
  • Don't be upset about getting your feathers ruffled.
  • Be consistent in your opinions and replies. Folks have long memories.
  • Ignore the age barrier. Discuss your opinion anyway, just do so with thought out principles not things said in the heat of the moment.
Some things I learned by watching and speaking.

I wish you well,
Scott


_____________________________

When we see men of worth, we should think of equaling them; when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inward and examine ourselves.

(in reply to Hiskajirah)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: why? - 1/1/2009 6:50:52 AM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Saffleur

  • Be Yourself not what you "think" you are.
  • Look to your peers, they may not consider you so at first but still do so and listen to what they say. The wealth of knowledge is there.
  • Don't be upset about getting your feathers ruffled.
  • Be consistent in your opinions and replies. Folks have long memories.
  • Ignore the age barrier. Discuss your opinion anyway, just do so with thought out principles not things said in the heat of the moment.



Hello, Scott -
 
The above are the reasons that when I read your posts, I don't think about your age.  Take that as a compliment, for coming from me, that is exactly what it is.  Those are words the OP would benefit from taking to heart.
 
Regards-
Grace

(in reply to Saffleur)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: why? - 1/1/2009 9:15:32 AM   
Saffleur


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Lenoir NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace
Hello, Scott -
 
The above are the reasons that when I read your posts, I don't think about your age.  Take that as a compliment, for coming from me, that is exactly what it is.  Those are words the OP would benefit from taking to heart.
 
Regards-
Grace


Tal Grace,

I thank you Grace for a compliment regardless of it's origin is still something to be appreciated. Whether it be from a lover or an enemy. I appreciate the kind words.

On topic however, after sobering up some from last nights festivus of which I hope everyone had a good one.

When I think of the word maturity I think that it is a learned behavior. A person learns many things in life as they age that most younger people do not. With tht maturity can come wisdom. That wisdom comes from reflection on one's past and then living their life to not make the same mistakes again. Which is why someone can be mature but not have as much wisdom as others may stereotype them to have.

This is not to say that there are anomalies in life. It's so diverse that there are plenty of people in their upper ages that are blissfully oblivious to some things youths face today.

OP, you seem like a decent fella. You've been given a wealth of information by a few folks here I enjoy reading posts from. I would suggest that you take that information, look in on yourself and see why you find it so offensive. Understand that and then begin reading older threads. While doing that, begin reading the books. Read them more than once because a once over will not do if you're serious about the Gorean life.

As has been stated, Goreans do as they say versus just saying it. It may seem like a daunting task to establish yourself within the ranks of those who are here but with patience, prose, a few good laughs and more patience it can happen!

If you want the friendship of the men here, prove it by doing. Take the good and the bad. Roll with it and come up smelling like roses.

The men I befriend here are in my eyes much like the men I see in my fraternity. Brothers, not friends. Brothers for life...

I wish you well,
Scott


_____________________________

When we see men of worth, we should think of equaling them; when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inward and examine ourselves.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: why? - 1/1/2009 2:55:30 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 1600
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MIntribus

i am not saying i know it all. i am just saying all should atleast be given the same chance. not just those with age on their side. i know that when one stops learning that is when they need to learn more than ever. for no one will ever know all. and no one will ever know evrything on any subject. the striveing of knowlage is what should keep all into  progressing. and help given to those that adimantly seek it out. not have them shuned for exposeing their minds to ridicule for trying. how is the life style suposed to go on if all interested are told to try agin later with no real halp and little gideance?



You are being given help and guidance. Just not in the way you wanted. Turn your eyes inward and wield the sword.

You have many future paths ahead of you. It's up to you which you choose. If you choose to think on these words everyone has given you, these words will do you a world of good. But if you choose to take the (they don't know what the hell they are talking about) or ( why won\t they help me) attitude then their words will do you no good.

Beware of the truth. Although much sought after truth can be dangerous to the seeker. Myth and reassuring lies are much easier to find and believe. If you find the truth even a temporary one, it can demand that you make painful changes.           God Emperor Leto II

< Message edited by blacksword404 -- 1/1/2009 2:58:14 PM >


_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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