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RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/19/2009 5:48:56 PM

StrangerThan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Because stereotypes are there for a reason and do exist.
Because people perpetuate it by listing the amount of abuse they have had and have been through as though it was only negative.

the.dark.

I think this one hits it square. Having worked as a reporter, I also know what you're taught to ask, look for, what makes good press. It makes good press to run a headline indicating a bad childhood, some other form of abuse. It draws eyes, readers, sympathy and ire. It is much easier to create belief in something many people view as abnormal when you have a reason they are "abnormal."

And as the.dark said, stereotypes exist for a reason.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 21

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 12:18:18 PM

Daes

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From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
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First, because sadomasochism is still considered a mental disorder.

Two, because people don't understand people that are "different" so there must be some horrendous explanation for the horrendous behavior, simply put.

Its honestly not much more than that.

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to robertolapiedra)

Post #: 22

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 2:30:27 PM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Cuz subs want to be spoiled protected delicate little passive snowflakes

I used to hate when you would say this, lol. But now that I am unattached, I'm finding the multitude of dominants out there WANT an injured, lost, passive snowflake (going by the mail exchanges I have experienced thus far).

This, and what Marc said above about society (and Hollywood, for that matter) fetishizing victimhood. Damsels in distress are fascinating, sexy, and appealing. I didn't write that particular rule book and I don't seem to fit in it. But I will say I've never seen a dominant put his track shoes on faster than when he comes across as submissive who is self aware and not in need of rescue.

Generally speaking, of course. ;)

You guys are scawy - you might have, ya know, ideas of your own and stuff.

Seriously, I salivate like everybody else at any whiff of waifdom, even though all they ever do is run up your long distance bills and steal your CD's.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 23

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 2:42:57 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

...Anyone have any ideas about why the media and the stereotypes are so focused on making subs lifetime victims with no mention about the other flavors in our rainbow?...

it's merely a guess, but perhaps because some folks believe that submissiveness is an indicator of a personality disorder that needs fixing...like this, for example:

quote:

Dependent personality disorder (DPD) is one of a group of conditions called anxious personality disorders, which are marked by feelings of nervousness and fear. DPD also is marked by helplessness, submissiveness, a need to be taken care of and for constant reassurance, and an inability to make decisions.

DPD is one of the most frequently diagnosed personality disorders. It appears to occur equally in men and women, and usually appears in early to middle adulthood.

What Are the Symptoms of Dependent Personality Disorder?
People with DPD become emotionally dependent on other people and spend great effort trying to please others. People with DPD tend to display needy, passive, and clinging behavior, and have a fear of separation. Other common characteristics of this personality disorder include the following:

Inability to make decisions, even everyday decisions, without the advice and reassurance of others

Avoidance of personal responsibility; avoidance of jobs that require independent functioning and positions of responsibility

Intense fear of abandonment and a sense of devastation or helplessness when relationships end; A person with DPD often moves right into another relationship when one ends

Over-sensitivity to criticism

Pessimism and lack of self-confidence, including a belief that they are unable to care for themselves

Avoidance of disagreeing with others for fear of losing support or approval

Inability to start projects

Difficulty being alone

Willingness to tolerate mistreatment and abuse from others

Placing the needs of their caregivers above their own

Tendency to be naive and to live in fantasy
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/dependant-personality-disorder

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/20/2009 2:43:47 PM >

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 24

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 2:46:48 PM

lobodomslavery

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i was bullied at primary school, thrown against a radiator when i was seven by a boy who had no idea of what he was doing, i was also bullied in secondary school. in college i was nt bullied but did not use it to my best advantage looking back. in work, i was and have been bullied. Yeah, i have been bullied a lot, you could say im a victim though i do not like to think of myself as that. a lot of people have gone through a lot worse than i have. some have done a lot better but thats life
kevin

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 25

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 4:47:18 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

Seriously, I salivate like everybody else at any whiff of waifdom, even though all they ever do is run up your long distance bills and steal your CD's.

Wait. The world must be spinning backwards because it was MY CDs that were stolen...heh.

Seriously, in this new "single life" I find myself in, I fear I am growing more cynical by the day (and I really, really don't like that) as I receive one email after another, from men assuming I am "lost" and need to be introduced to my submission, and need my boundaries explored. I find that every time I receive a new email, the first thought that goes through my mind is "Now what???"

And that leaves me wondering just what my place is in all of this....but hey, maybe that makes me lost and attractive??

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 26

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 5:06:59 PM

Amaros

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You do always look on the bright side!

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 27

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/20/2009 5:11:53 PM

NuevaVida

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LOL I try.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 28

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 8:50:16 AM

DavanKael

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Speaking from a general clinical perspective and not giving clinical advice here, it is erroneous to assume that Dependent Personality Disorder is commonly diagnosed. If it is one of the most commonly diagnosed Personality Disorders, it just means that it is one of the more pervasive of a rather rare set of disorders/diagnoses. Off the top of my head, I am guessing that Personality Disorders (All of 'em, not just one of them) have a prevalence of 2%-4% in the general population (I would have to check the DMS 4R for the percentages it gives). Plus, "submissiveness" in that context isn't inherently what those of us having this conversation would call submissiveness. Additionally, in just about any psychological disorder, personality or otherwise, significant impairment or some other criteria that substantiates the issue is life interrupting or damaging needs to be present. Any clinician worth the paper their degree is printed on will treat the person as an individual, not a list of symptoms from the diagnostic bible.
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 1/21/2009 8:53:57 AM >

_____________________________

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Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 29

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 8:54:15 AM

OttersSwim

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I was beat up in school once...yea...

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I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

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Post #: 30

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 9:09:35 AM

Amaros

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Ya know, look everybody is obsessed with something, whether it's money, power, themselves - there are money addictions, power addictions, status addictions, shopping addictions, gambling addictions, food addictions, drug and alcohol addictions, religious addictions, boredom addictions - it's called life, we work with what we've got, and I'm sorry, I don't care how fucked up your life has been, as individuals, I think kinksters are probably among the healthier people around, I've seen people destroy their lives and families over these other things, from cocaine to lottery tickets, and in many ways, if kinky appetites are generated by some trauma, these are those traumas.

The worst thing that can happen to you in D/s is you might have an unhappy relationship, and have to do something (or somebody) else - big whoop, that too, is life.

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 31

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 9:14:41 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Speaking from a general clinical perspective and not giving clinical advice here, it is erroneous to assume that Dependent Personality Disorder is commonly diagnosed. If it is one of the most commonly diagnosed Personality Disorders, it just means that it is one of the more pervasive of a rather rare set of disorders/diagnoses. Off the top of my head, I am guessing that Personality Disorders (All of 'em, not just one of them) have a prevalence of 2%-4% in the general population (I would have to check the DMS 4R for the percentages it gives). Plus, "submissiveness" in that context isn't inherently what those of us having this conversation would call submissiveness. Additionally, in just about any psychological disorder, personality or otherwise, significant impairment or some other criteria that substantiates the issue is life interrupting or damaging needs to be present. Any clinician worth the paper their degree is printed on will treat the person as an individual, not a list of symptoms from the diagnostic bible.
Davan

Davan,
although your reply was to NuevaVida, it was this slave that brought in the excerpt from WebMD. this slave agrees with what you said, however it isn't the clinicians of our society that this slave was referring to when she said some folks BELIEVE that submissiveness is an idicator of a personality disorder/mental illness that needs fixing.

it is just an observation, over the course of a few years, from dealing with folks who are not educated practicing clinicians...just regular folk.

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 32

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 9:21:18 AM

Huntertn

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Joined: 10/7/2006
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getting back to the theme..yes we've noiticed it..but I think it all boils down to ..'Make it louid and nasty and they will buy the dam papers"..some are abused both Doms and subs as kids..but sure as hell not all of us are

(in reply to robertolapiedra)

Post #: 33

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 9:54:54 AM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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Subs are just traumatized victims,

Female Doms are man hating shrews.

Male Doms are fem hating bastards,

Or so the Rumor Mill spews.

Be ye Victim Shrew or Bastard

Bet ye rather be ye than thee

of that infamous Rumor Mill

who spew the rhetoric or'lly

(in reply to Huntertn)

Post #: 34

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 5:45:57 PM

BondageBarbieX

Posts: 495
Joined: 4/1/2008
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It is bull..I had a spoiled well off child hood with no trauma of any kind.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 35

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 5:48:53 PM

Infallibility

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Joined: 12/21/2008
Status: offline

What if I was an abusive child in early life, and grew up to be a sub... *head explode*

(in reply to BondageBarbieX)

Post #: 36

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 6:23:58 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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Because it's true.

People are always looking for the NORM.... there is acceptable behavior...which is the norm... then there is abnormal behavior which we practice. There is a whole science developed to gauge normal and abnormal behavior.

We are partly formed by our upbringing... if we were to adhere to the accepted norm of upbringing then we would conform. Because we don't then our parents failed and we were raised wrong or suffered some trauma.

If we are the product of a so-called normal childhood and still practice abnormal behavior then we are flawed in a physical way.

You must remember this is the view of the majority…It makes no difference if it is true or not.

Butch

(in reply to Infallibility)

Post #: 37

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 6:28:34 PM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
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I've always felt the best Dommes were the result of terrible Doms.

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to feydeplume)

Post #: 38

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 6:39:03 PM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
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I'm not sure if that is sad or happy, being the result of a bad Dom i mean. I like to think there are plenty of great Dommes that are just great in their own right. I would like to think the same thing about Doms.

_____________________________

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If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 39

RE: subs=victim dom/mes= ? - 1/21/2009 7:17:30 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Speaking from a general clinical perspective and not giving clinical advice here, it is erroneous to assume that Dependent Personality Disorder is commonly diagnosed. If it is one of the most commonly diagnosed Personality Disorders, it just means that it is one of the more pervasive of a rather rare set of disorders/diagnoses. Off the top of my head, I am guessing that Personality Disorders (All of 'em, not just one of them) have a prevalence of 2%-4% in the general population (I would have to check the DMS 4R for the percentages it gives). Plus, "submissiveness" in that context isn't inherently what those of us having this conversation would call submissiveness. Additionally, in just about any psychological disorder, personality or otherwise, significant impairment or some other criteria that substantiates the issue is life interrupting or damaging needs to be present. Any clinician worth the paper their degree is printed on will treat the person as an individual, not a list of symptoms from the diagnostic bible.
Davan

Hi DavanKael,

Actually, according to the National Institute for Mental Health, it is estimated that 26.2% of Americans 18 years or older suffer from a mental disorder. 20.9% of Americans have mood disorders. They have interesting info on their site - here.

But I'll agree with beth and say many non-clinical folks believe submissiveness is indicative of a mental disorder. My ex husband certainly thought so. A couple of counselors I saw along the course of my life thought so, too

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 40

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