RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life"

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 6:56:51 AM

OrionTheWolf

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"American high school and college textbooks are loaded with equalitarian propaganda, all pointing to the Declaration of Independence equality clause as the "American dream" or the "American ideal" or the "American creed." "

http://www.rcarterpittman.org/essays/misc/Equality_v_Liberty.html

"At a cultural level, egalitarian theories have developed in sophistication and acceptance during the past two hundred years. Among the notable broadly egalitarian philosophies are Socialism, Communism, Anarchism, Left-Libertarianism, Progressivism, and Human Rights, which promote economic, political, and legal egalitarianism, respectively. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism

Just a couple of sites. The wiki site has several links at the bottom. There are several books on the switch in Western cultural from Patriarchy to a egalitarian based society.

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 7:13:37 AM

starshineowned

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Greetings..

I was wondering..Do you ever look at these sort of discussions as a sort of "re-inventing the wheel"? That ever lasting search to take something, and keep trying to refine and define it.

No matter what label one starts off with..humans seem to have this inate drive to keep dissecting, and splintering it down almost to the point of boxing themselves into it. Some strange need to reduce the resistance, think alike..that ever shrinking common bond of a few..yet only to see that this box eventually gets dissected and splintered yet again. Just when you think you have it down to the bare bones..your proven wrong, and then suddenly what you were meshing with just fine..you now are on the fringe of what that something was entirely.

The ever persuit to state: This is me..only to turn around and say: no wait..This is me. In that boxing though seems to come a double edge sword. One that does state: This is me, and One that now states that in order for this to be me..I must adhere and remain within this box because if I migrate outside of it..then those others remaining in that box no longer feel you are one with the box.

You can take the broadest of labels.."Humans" and have the same results. Am I a good human? What does it mean to be Human? Where would you go to even find out such information? Etc.

If it is understood where I am trying to go with this...Does anyone have a clue as to why were doing it, and could it be possible to ever end, and just be?

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 2/12/2009 7:15:21 AM >

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 8:06:16 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

If it is understood where I am trying to go with this...Does anyone have a clue as to why were doing it, and could it be possible to ever end, and just be?

starshine

Human curiosity. Always was, always will be. I'm an explorer at heart and not taking that extra step to peak around the corner to see what may be beyond my current vision is one of the ways I can continue to grow. I'm not sure how I can just 'be' when it's my hope that I'll continue to discover 'me' until I take a dirt nap! I'm still excited by the explorations and discoveries in front of me and within me. So, to just 'be'.. well, just be what? I'm born anew every single day. It's the grand adventure that makes this all so fascinating and fun to be a human. So much better than being a dog, flower or something else, yanno? Humans have it totally going on - not that I'm dissing on the space aliens or anything, I'd love to meet some, but I'm not holding my breath.

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 8:41:38 AM

starshineowned

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Greetings..

Yes to a small degree what I wrote includes this aspect but I was more looking at the point to which once we find this box that supposedly represents us (general) do we fight and struggle so hard to express that this is the way it must be with all the defining points locked into place in order to be of that same box. There has got to be a more indepth reason as to why we as humans try so hard to narrow down and pinpoint certain things to such a confining space that there can be no wiggle room to just be once your there.

It's like getting into the box ( I like the box), only to find that if you want to be in this particular corner of the box..you must do this. If you wish to be in another corner of that box..you must do that. Yet were all in the same box.

This with the understanding that there are a infinite number of boxes, and space without borders.

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 2/12/2009 8:45:18 AM >

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 10:12:04 AM

BitaTruble

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I'm not so sure it gets deeper than human curiosity. I mean, we start off in life with the 'what' question from pretty much the time we learn to speak. What's that? A ball. What's that? A table. We are satisfied with those simple answers for a time but soon enough as we gain complexity as humans, our questions get more sophisticated and we turn to 'why'. Why is that a ball? Why does that blue ball look different than that brown ball? Then someone explains that the blue ball is a handball and the brown ball is a football and that's when we start to understand that things can be qualified and the initial labels are just the starting point. Sooner or later we get to the philosophical questions. Why am "I". Why do I exist? All those stem from human curiosity. It's curiosity which leads men to invent, to experiment, to ponder, to try to extrapolate and determine. Curiosity is a core characteristic of being human and it leads to most incidents of pain and pleasure .. from burning your hand on the hot stove to discovering sex for the first time. Why do we fight so hard? I think it's because it's what we're born to do .. to understand, in whatever ways we have available to us, our own human experience.

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 10:24:40 AM

amelliagrace

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Hiya, starshine -

I love what Celeste had to say on this.

My two cents is that boxes are pretty restrictive, and limiting, as lables can be. For the purposes of many discussions, such as philosophical ones, we are left with having to use them as tools. Personally, I don't enjoy living in tiny boxes.

What I do enjoy and find helpful, is explorting aspects of self...facets, if you will. I haven't met a person yet who didn't have different sides, or facets. I avoid using the term side, as it tends to carry a conotation of contradiction, or being "two faced', or even of opposing positions. "Facets" tends to convey better what I see in myself and others......different aspects and parts of the same individual. The more of my own facets that I excavate, explore, label, catagorize, and analize, the more new ones I discover.

The angle of each facet as it relates to the others, it's size, flaws, clarity, adds to the gem. Some individuals are more complex in their configuration than others, some are more lovely than others. Excavating and polishing our own gem is the work of a lifetime. We have boxes, labels, conversations, and issues revisited with fresh eyes and different lab partners as part of the tools in doing so.

At some point in my personal excavations, I'm likely to discover whether or not I'm Gorean.

I hope that made sense -
Grace

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 11:00:18 AM

starshineowned

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Greetings..

Thank you both for offering up your thoughts on this.

The human curiosity and the continued driving need to answer those unanswerable questions that pertain to our own existance I really do get, and I understand how it leads us from one direction or place to another both in thought and deed. What seems strange to me though is the why as being such social creatures we work so hard to continually narrow down ourselves from one another pretty much doing the reverse of what we really are like. Being social but yet over time becoming anti social while still being social. Is it a inate need to reduce the clutter, noise and distractions that would lesson the ability to show we exist at all? That what we have to say, and our being on this planet is more likely to be heard and give way to help in answering those unanswerable questions of why we are because it's the only way we know short of getting those answers answered in effort to give value and meaning to our being? It seems like in the bid to be social and not lonely in this world we try so hard to lessen the ears around us that might hear, and the tunnel narrows.

I am so guilty of this myself but this is the first time I think I've gone to this length to try and see beyond just the curiosity of humans/myself to find other reasons, and I really think there are. Surely all these persuits of sub grouping and dissecting of humans into little cubicals has to be the result of more than just trying to find the answer to why we exist.

To me it really is the same persuit of your topic amelliagrace. If you arrive at a point that you feel you are a good Gorean..something will eventually altar that perception, and it is usually others within that same box that will send you once again on that hunt. The same as if you felt you were living a good Gorean life (which seems to me alot more broad in definition). It is good until................

If you felt you were good to begin with or you felt your life as was good at one point and were happy and content in that...is it really being said that just mere human curiosity is what causes us to abandon ship and go searching? Or could it be that now our own existance and voice is no longer being received, and we run off again to a smaller box where we can once again find acceptance and lend value, meaning, and purpose again from those now around?

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 2/12/2009 11:05:40 AM >

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 11:08:06 AM

amelliagrace

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I could see the search ending if human beings were static, rather than dynamic, or if we were better at knowing ourselves. Personally, I'm glad that the journey never ends, that there is always more to know and explore about self and others.

There would be no need for further question and defining, if we did not grow, develope, evolve, and change. I like it this way. Life is way too short for boring.

As to social and not......the truth is I'm a very social hermit, and always have been.

Grace

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 11:19:22 AM

BitaTruble

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fr

External validation can be something as simple as it makes us feel good to know there are others who have the same book and are on the same page or it can be as complex as thinking if someone else feels that way, perhaps I'm not so unique, so we go off searching for that which will 'make' us unique. Interesting and complex and something worth pondering and yet, I can't help but think that even that is because of human curiosity. :;grins::

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 11:25:02 AM

amelliagrace

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Good thing we aren't cats, or..........

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 11:30:41 AM

starshineowned

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quote:

External validation can be something as simple as it makes us feel good to know there are others who have the same book and are on the same page or it can be as complex as thinking if someone else feels that way, perhaps I'm not so unique, so we go off searching for that which will 'make' us unique. Interesting and complex and something worth pondering and yet, I can't help but think that even that is because of human curiosity. :;grins::

This would be pretty close I think ..though..I do not think such questions really arise nor are they answered so much because of curiosity versus simple validation of us..despite most arguing vehemently that such validations are not required. I think such validations is the real or more plausible root of motivation which prompts the curiosity.

Cats are Evil

starshine

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RE: "Good Gorean" vs "Good Gorean Life&q... - 2/12/2009 11:31:36 AM

BitaTruble

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The obvious usually goes right over my head, but I actually got that one!