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"The best Dommes are those, who were subs first...... - 2/13/2009 5:19:55 AM

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Joined: 2/7/2009
From: Stavanger, Norway
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Hello! I have some question for Dommes and switches on CM.

I'll bet most of You have heard this opinion, that people who were slaves once, can be better Mistresses/Masters later, because they know from their own experience what it's like to be a sub in D/s relationship. And this experience seems to help them in understanding slave's psyche and emotions.

I'm wondering, what is Your opinion in this case. Do You agree with above sentence, or rather believe it's false? Or maybe You think, that sometimes this method is working out, and sometimes not?

Greetings, Lilith

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 5:30:46 AM

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Wow...this is going to be interesting...

I have known a lot of Dominant Females who have NEVER submitted nor do they want to but they are marvelous at what they do. By the same token I know many who have submitted and have been wonderful as well. They feel they connect better with the submissive side because of the experience.

I have bottomed just for the sensation, but I know I can never be submissive. I know I am Dominant, I enjoy that better. Does the bottoming experience make Me a better Dominant? I think I would have been fine even if I had never tried it because My bottoming experience wouldn't be the same as anyone else's. I was curious-it wasn't a "need".

Therefore: I don't see a connection between being submissive and being a good Dominant.

Perhaps you should have post this in "switches" to see what answers you could get as they have visited both sides. But I think I know what you are getting at: Does experience on the other side make you a better Domme?

I too, look forward to the answers.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 5:38:07 AM

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Crossposted from my journal on Fetlife: (any snark is not intended on for the OP, its my opinion and this is a direct copy paste, I dont have the time or energy to retype the whole thing)

I am getting sick and tired of people beating the same dead horse of a Dominant needing to be submissive to be a good dominant. I call BULLSHIT!
I am a dominant person. I would not make a good submissive. I do not enjoy or get anything from pain, and discipline would not make me behave better, it would make me rebel. So, explain to me please what exactly I would learn from such an experiment?
If I do not like pain, then I learn nothing about someone who enjoys it, or even needs it. If I do not enjoy discipline and control, then I learn nothing about someone who craves it.
So, essentially, aside from learning that I am a terrible submissive, which I knew anyway, I am not going to learn jack and crap about being dominant by submitting!
I dont learn to throw a whip better by feeling it when it his me. I dont learn to use a crop better by being struck by one. I cant learn how to tie a better knot just by being tied up myself. If you are not a submissive type, forcing yourself to endure it just to make others believe you will be a better dominant is stupid.
While it might work for some people, assuming it should apply to everyone is ridiculous.
Does that mean that the inverse is true? To be a better submissive, should they be Dom first? Why not? Why would our being in their shoes make us better, and not vice versa? You never hear anyone saying that to be a better sub you should have dommed first, now do you?

------
DV

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(in reply to MistressAinCT)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 5:40:42 AM

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Actually it could help you to see the world through your slave's eyes better. To therefore cater to them better. But I thought the goal of a Dom/me was to satisfy themselves, not cater to the slaves better.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 5:56:35 AM

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Though being a domme or a sub, on the surface, may seem fairly simple, it is infact quite complex. There are deep and intense psychological aspects to submission; which in order to understand, you almost have to experience. Much as the best coach has played ball, the best domme understands even the smallest nuances of their craft. Since very few people are that intuitive, it makes sense that experiencing sub-space first hand is very enlightening. On the other hand, a domme who has experienced submission makes me more anxious, as they just might know how vulnerable I truly am and how best to leverage my submission.

(in reply to LunaVenus)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 5:59:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedreality

On the other hand, a domme who has experienced submission makes me more anxious, as they just might know how vulnerable I truly am and how best to leverage my submission.

LOL nice try. There must be a shortage of female subs or something LOL.

< Message edited by LunaVenus -- 2/13/2009 6:00:32 AM >

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 6:20:20 AM

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This question has been asked on the boards before. Along with the answers that you receive here, it may be of interest to you to use the search function to see what people have said prior.

My personal answer to the question is that for some people it's a good method and for others it is not. For example, it wouldn't work for Me because I do not have inclinations towards feeling what a submissive feels. Sure, I could go through the motions of submission, but I wouldn't internalize things in the same way. It's very much the same as the premise that I am not a masochist, so even if I would chose to bottom, I would not feel what the masochist feels. It would be the same sensation, but My body and brain wouldn't register the same as someone who enjoys receiving pain during play.

While there are things to be learned from the other side of the kneel, I don't think it makes anyone particularly better. As My sub just said to Me as he was reading over My shoulder. It's not like anyone says that to be a better sub, they need the experience of being a Dominant.

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(in reply to LunaVenus)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 6:30:37 AM

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I just don't do submission. Bottoming, sure, I used to enjoy that in very limited circumstances, and am still a bondage bottom. Submit? I don't have it in me, in spite of being an old timer dago that was raised to serve. Understanding *service* has helped me, since I know what is and is not reasonable to expect.

A big clue? Orgasm control. I've watched scenes where my submissive friends hold back orgasms, or say their pussies belong to their dominants... and I admire and respect their choice. The second someone tries to take control of MY sexuality is the second that I turn off like a lightswitch.

I do think that bottoming helped me be a better player, since I do know what everything feels like and I can mix sensations more effectively than otherwise. Still, that's my own opinion, and largely a reaction to the dominants I see who go in canes blazing with no idea of what they are doing.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 6:46:32 AM

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At this point in life, any submission on my part would be forced, not pretty, not enjoyable, and very likely.........someone would not live through it.

Twenty or thirty years ago, I might have been able to try. Even then, I don't think it would have been sucessful for any period of time. I think I know me pretty well. I would have taken it to a point, then had a few buttons too many pushed and dug in my heels and said "Oh fuck you!" and walked away.

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 7:16:47 AM

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Initially I subbed within a relationship with a switchy male type ... the first time I dominated him blew my mind .. the frustrating part came later, when I hoped/prayed he could dominate me like I did him .. he didn't..

Do I think dominant types can learn from bottoming .. hell yes .. it should be encouraged ..

There's is more to life than putting ourselves into labels...

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 7:17:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedreality

Though being a domme or a sub, on the surface, may seem fairly simple, it is infact quite complex. There are deep and intense psychological aspects to submission; which in order to understand, you almost have to experience. Much as the best coach has played ball, the best domme understands even the smallest nuances of their craft. Since very few people are that intuitive, it makes sense that experiencing sub-space first hand is very enlightening. On the other hand, a domme who has experienced submission makes me more anxious, as they just might know how vulnerable I truly am and how best to leverage my submission.

Nicely said, Twisted !

I began (mannnnnnny years ago) as a submissive. Does doing it that way help everyone? Probably not. Did it help me? Yup. I love the pyschological - the heat, the depth, touching the center of the universe. One Dom in particular will live on in my memory forever because he connected with the inside of my brain and created sensations that, to this day, make me grin like I'm drunk LOL.

As a Domme looking back on those days, I vividly recall those things that made my eyes go wide and my knees go rubbery LOL. I remember that connection, the sensations, the vulnerabilities, the absolutely mind-blowing luxury of letting everything go and walking around inside the experience. I just love creating those same experiences for the submissive in my care. Twisted touched on a valid point - I do use that insight to take 'unfair advantage'. ;)

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 7:31:31 AM

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I don't think it's false that being a sub could make someone a better Dominant, but it's not a universal truth. I learned pretty quickly that I didn't like bottoms who would try to run the show by telling me what activities to do, or things that would make me a "real" Domme, etc. I've never submitted, but I've gone out with guys who've tried to dominate me sexually or otherwise and it never felt right. Even in vanilla situations, when a guy doesn't pay attention to my satisfaction and I feel like he's the only one who enjoyed the encounter I get really pissed off. More at myself for not screening the guy properly and wasting my own time, and often at not taking control of the situation and making it something I'd enjoy.

I'm not sure that going through more experiences of my desires not being met would make me any better as a Domme. I might be reminded of why submission isn't right for me, or why I wouldn't be able to develop a relationship with someone who wants to dominate me, but not too much past that.

(in reply to MsFlutter)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 7:57:54 AM

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The statement "The best Dommes are those, who were subs first" is absolutely true for some dominants.

For myself, absolutely, positively, never... I can even wrap my mind around bottoming to someone I really love and trust, but I would still be telling him what to do, when to do it, where and possibly how.

I have zero desire to submit, and if that limits my awesomeness as a dominant, it is a burden I'm willing to live with.
On the other hand, I am also fairly empathic, so that it has never been necessary for me to be in someone's exact shoes, in order to feel them most times. M

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(in reply to femdommistress)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:09:59 AM

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I think it is safe to say that we learn from every experience we have be it positive or negative. As someone who did submit over 20 years ago in my path to who I am now. I feel that my submission did contribute a great deal to my Dominant style. I have to agree with Ms Flutter as she expressed her memories of submitting. This is in no way an indicator of a need to submit now. However, it does give us an advantage over those that submit to us, fair or unfair.

If you see submitting as only a need for pain/discipline then no you probably won't get anything out of it. However, if you look at it as a means of balance, of renewing your mind, and an opportunity to let go, you might just find that it does enhance your Dominant skills. Although I don't consider myself a switch, I have chosen at times to submit myself to a Dominant for those reasons mentioned above. It's all about ME and getting WHAT I need, WHEN I need it. Is that not what Dominance is.

Just food for thought

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:21:45 AM

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Let's just say that I disagree very strongly with this "common belief" because some of the worse tops and doms I have ever known in the Scene will brag about how they started out on the other side of things.

But by the same token, a few of the very good folks I have met did start on the bottom -- they just don't brag about it I notice.

Guess what? The result is a big shocking: It depends on the individual. Who would have imagined that?

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(in reply to femdommistress)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:29:19 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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~FR~

The only thing playing the sub role is going to do is make me a better roleplayer. Because that's all it would be -- playing. I'm already an excellent roleplayer. I don't need help so it would be pointless.

To make me a better dominant, it's a much better use of my time to get involved with workshops teaching skills I wish to learn, run by people who have more experience and who I respect. I'd even be willing to apprentice with someone like Lady Pact, Calla Firestorm, or Master Fire if my schedule permitted me to do so. However, since I don't have the time to make that sort of committment, what time I do have is best spent reading instruction books on the skills I wish to improve and practicing on my own. I can practice knots for shibari anywhere, and the archery target works just as well for floggers as it does for arrows or throwing daggers.

The rest is all interpersonal skills. There's no way to improve those except by living and having relationships. My fiance and I have been together almost 7 years. I think I'm doing okay there.

*Edited for typos

< Message edited by SylvereApLeanan -- 2/13/2009 8:35:09 AM >

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:32:28 AM

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Thanks for all Your answers. I'm new here, so I confess, I did't check, if there was someone, who asked the same question before me. But I will do this now, for sure

I agree completely, that if I'm not a fan of pain, psychical domination or anything like that, than I won't learn anything advisable from experience of being submissive. Actually, it would be a waste of time. But I think it depends on the person. There are as many opinions, as much people in BDSM community, and I'm glad that I can explore many different points of view.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)

RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:32:54 AM

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G'morning all:

(Fast Reply)

I do hope that the OP doesn't believe this over generalization. I call it bunk. To infer that a dominant female can't be empathic enough to understand the head space or emotional depths of submission unless she puts herself through the hoops is rather insulting. Funny, I don't see this being brought up to the male dominants.

From my own experience, it's not necessary. Domination is a calling, a stirring of the blood and what makes you tick. I don't believe it to be a trainable talent or set of behaviors that can be enhanced by flipping the flogger and living it from the other side. I am inherently and irrevocably dominant. It's not like putting on clothing, it simply is. A personality trait like many others I posses.

Only practice makes perfect.

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...

Bella

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:38:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW
It's all about ME and getting WHAT I need, WHEN I need it. Is that not what Dominance is.

Just food for thought

I agree.

I can choose to let go of control for my own fun, and for a limited amount of time, but submission beyond my own parameters (which I tend to call bottoming), is not for me. As others have said, there are other ways to learn, and yes I realize that is limiting in some regards. M

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RE: "The best Dommes are those, who were subs firs... - 2/13/2009 8:51:47 AM

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I'm a switch who went the opposite route. I spent almost 5 years as a Domme with the man who introduced me to BDSM (in person, I had read about and was drawn to it, but as depicted in those stories, seemed way too extreme to want to explore). Then, I dated a couple of switches, a couple of tops, and a couple of bottoms in egalitarian, kinky relationships. About 4 years ago, I briefly dated and played with a couple of men who I reacted submissively toward, but who didn't want the kind of relationship I was interested, so I decided not to act upon it. About 3 years ago, I met my last partner through another BDSM personals site, and I was his submissive for almost 3 years.

Anyway, everything that I experience helps give me new perspectives. In general, I disagree with the premise. Bottoming doesn't teach me much about a particular implement or method, I'm too busy enjoying it to analyse what they're doing, usually. Plus, there are people who can take much more, or much less pain than I can, so I can't assume that they will react in identical ways. I don't know yet if submission will have brought new insights to me if I end up next in a F/m relationship, but I think my basic style as a Domme, what I get out of feeling that power over and control of him, is unlikely to change much.

Personally, when I am dating someone who is brand new to BDSM, I tend to start out with light switching. Usually, within a few times, they have a good idea of what they find appealing (top,Dom, bottom, sub, switch), but if they are certain they only want to try one side or the other, I don't have a problem with that at all.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 2/13/2009 8:54:21 AM >

(in reply to femdommistress)

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