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Age, when does it become a determining factor?


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Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/23/2009 1:58:14 PM   
temptinglishy


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Cornfields of Illinois
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters,
Greetings Mistress',
Greetings girls,

I have been wondering this for quite some time, and please would love some other opinions on this.

Age, within legal limits of course. When does it become a determining factor? I have seen debates on a younger person could not be a slave, due to lack of experience in general life, let alone the Gorean world. And I have heard the same debate on being a master or mistress. But then I have heard the debate on a master wishes a girl to be younger so that he can train her to his standards. Mold her into what he wishes. That the younger ones have less baggage, and some would rather deal with less baggage than having less experience.

So the biggest question I have is age a determining factor and/or when does it become a determining factor?


_____________________________

lishy

"Only one link in the chain of
destiny can be handled at a time. Steer your life in that direction."

Winston Churchill




Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/23/2009 6:33:04 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2356
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Greetings, lishy,
Hopefully you'll get some responses from Goreans here, but I figured I'd give my take on it. I first got involved as a Domme a few months before I turned 21, and was with my submissive for approximately 5 years. He and I initially met almost 2 years before, and had been hanging out in the same group of friends for about 4 months when we started dating, so we already knew each other. He let me know about his interests the second time we went out, though we took things fairly slowly (by my choice) at first.

My last boyfriend/Dom was 4 1/2 years younger than me, and I didn't feel his age had any impact on the D/s dynamic. We were together for about 3 years.
I think age/experience can be an advantage, but not a requirement. As to age disparity, I pretty much view it as being the same as for anyone who is dating. Personally, I strongly prefer to date someone who is within 10 years of my age, and would be very unlikely to date someone under 21 or over 45. That has changed a bit over time - when I was 26-30, I wanted someone within 5 years of my age.

(in reply to temptinglishy)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/23/2009 6:37:15 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		Hi, lishy -
 
IMO, age is but one of many factors.  In my experience 30 is seems to be a major milepost on the highway, in this day and age, in this particular society I reside within.  There are definitely more people over 30 with sufficient self mastery, life experience, and maturity to master another individual than there are under 30.  This does not mean there are no good Master candidates under 30.  JMO, there may be fewer, but the ones that are, are often top notch, and just as capable as one signifigantly older.  There are a few individuals of my acquaintance who fall into that stellar group.
 
On the flip side, with regard to slaves, I haven't noticed a higher percentage one way or the other.  I'm not saying age isn't a factor there, just that I personally haven't noticed age being as signifigant a factor.  The impression I'm left with is that the individual tastes of the Master and specifics of a given potential slave  are far greater factors than just the slave's age.
 
My personal experience with such things is certainly not adequate to constitute anything remotely resembling a statistically signifigant or scientifically valid sampling....it is simply my own experience and observations.
 
Grace

(in reply to temptinglishy)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/23/2009 6:45:23 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		~FR~

Food for thought from the books:

quote:

“You are young. Your surrender cannot be the full surrender of the mature woman, the woman experienced in life, the woman who has come to understand the barrenness of the conventions by which she is expected to abide, who has discerned the vacuity of the principles to which she is expected to mindlessly subscribe, who has learned the emptiness of the roles imposed upon her by society, roles alien to, and inimical to, the needs of her deepest self.  You are not such a woman, a full, mature, knowledgeable, cognizant woman, a woman profoundly in touch with her passions and deepest self, one who has come to understand that her only hope for true happiness and fulfillment lies in obedience, love and service, one craving the collar, one yearning for a master”.~pg191-192Magicians


~Kimveri

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/23/2009 6:51:56 PM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings lishy,
 
I can only give you an, in general, answer as this is up to each individual, Master or slave. Personally, I think a slave is a slave whether she discovers it (or accepts it) at 18 or 50. With Masters it's a bit different. In my opinion Masters or Mistresses who are young or over 55 have more difficulty for different reasons. Young Masters (this may apply to playing as well as in  a ltr) are seen as not having much experience. So slaves question their safety if in their control. With older Masters, many younger slaves, have expressed a fear of not being able to have a long enough relationship, but very few problems if just playing. Interestingly in my unscientific experience almost all of the Masters who have passed, leaving their slave alone, have been under 45 and many of them under 35.
 
For myself I really don't care as long as they have the desire to serve and obey.
 
I wish you well,
T

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to temptinglishy)
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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/24/2009 4:44:53 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: temptinglishy

Greetings Masters,
Greetings Mistress',
Greetings girls,

I have been wondering this for quite some time, and please would love some other opinions on this.

Age, within legal limits of course. When does it become a determining factor?


When I say so.  That is to say, I don't think the actual age of a slave matters at all.  Their lack of maturity might be an issue, but, having owned slave girls from their early 20s into their 40s, I can tell you for sure that a lack of maturity knows no age-limit. 

quote:

I have seen debates on a younger person could not be a slave, due to lack of experience in general life, let alone the Gorean world.


I think that anyone who would make those arguments probably shouldn't own a young slave.  They aren't thinking like a slave owner.  They're thinking like someone looking for a mate.  I'm 47.  Would I collar an 18 year old?  Sure, if my sense was that she was genuinely looking to be enslaved, and I had some use for her that justified what it would cost me in money, time, and effort to keep her and train her to be an asset to me.  Could an 18 year old keep my house and do maintaince on my belongings and run household errands and be useful to me in any number of ways?  Sure she could.  While she might not be a suitable girlfriend, she might be just fine as property.

Is there a high liklihood that an 18 year old who begs to be a slave today might decide in a few years that she wants something else out of life?  I'd say so.  I'm using 18 as the most extreme example, but any young girl who begs a collar today has a whole life ahead of her.  She may end up serving her first master for many years.  She may end up passing through several hands, gaining experience, before she ends up in the hands of a man that she will serve for many years.  She may decide at some point that she wants to have a family of her own, and seek that in life.  When it comes to slaves, the question isn't what are they going to be doing for the rest of their lives.  The question is whether they can be an asset here and now.

quote:

And I have heard the same debate on being a master or mistress. But then I have heard the debate on a master wishes a girl to be younger so that he can train her to his standards. Mold her into what he wishes. That the younger ones have less baggage, and some would rather deal with less baggage than having less experience.


Hmmmm....  I think that's inexperience on the part of the Master talking.   If you don't think that a 22 year old who is a slave and a slut by nature and has probably been shamed for it quite a bit and gotten herself into all kinds of trouble on account of it isn't going to walk into your house with some "baggage" you have the proverbial "other thing coming".  I will say that young girls do more naturally see older men as authority figures than men closer to their own age, which can make their early training somewhat easier.

In general, the folks that I see getting hung up on age are mostly those who don't make a clear distinction between a slave and a lover.  If you're taking a lover and calling her a slave, all the general caveats about big age differences apply.  If you see slaves as assets and lovers as something different, the question becomes will the prospective slave be a good asset in your household.  Depending on what you intend to use her for, the answer doesn't necessarily, or even likely depend on age.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to temptinglishy)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/24/2009 7:22:42 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Hello wenchlette,

Age is relevant to the persons involved and their particular preferences.


That being said I see where Kimveri referenced an interesting quote and I think that sentiment influenced my search as I was looking for the perfect slave for me. After a good deal of time, effort, trial and loss I came to the conclusion that the "perfect" slave wasn't/ isn't out there on some store shelf, auction block or wandering aimlessly in search of me. This girl only exists in a man's heart and mind. Girls that need that life of bonded service aren't all that hard to spot no matter their age, but individually for each man she must be created, inspired and taught his personal preferences. Old dog, new dog all tricks are only a whip stroke or a pat on the head away.


I will say that with young, late teen early twenty somethings I have reservations, I don’t discount them but they tend to have unrealistic expectations, seek conditions and may only see “slavery” as a short term/ part time fantasy. Then again they may understand this concept better than most. It’s tough to paint anyone under a certain stereotype. There’s nothing wrong with short term slavery mind you, it is even suggested in the books that a girl may go through several masters in order to find that just right fit. And no, that doesn’t have to mean her “love master”.

For personal reasons I have never had much interest in girls close too or exceeding my age, not that I haven’t entertained the idea of a girl in that age range at one time or another but baggage (offspring or other inseparable distractions) or other various reasons (health, habit or agenda) important to me have always left me looking on to other venues.


I suspect the ideal (for me) age range is the mid twenty to mid thirty range. No dependent offspring, no family exceptions, no health challenges and nothing else that makes me go “hmmm”. So examining what I just said I suspect it could be said age is a factor but not an exclusive factor. Ishy is younger than my preference range and had a couple other strikes against her that I/ we were able to rectify in my mind and reality; and now I like her just fine, I might even keep her. So never say never.


I suspect that if we grew up in a society that was more concerned with individual and personal “truth” rather than societal equality and conformity we might all have a better understanding of who we are and who others are. We might then actually inspire or at least accept the dominant or submissive in the hearts of our offspring. At that we might then help them reach individual understanding at an earlier age. Hell, perhaps we would understand that age wasn’t always a determining factor at all as it seemed it might have been at times in the books.


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to temptinglishy)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/24/2009 1:12:46 PM   
temptinglishy


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Cornfields of Illinois
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters,
Greetings Mistress',

Thank you Andalusite for your reply.

Thank you Mistress Grace for your take on your experiences and observations.

Thank you Mistress Kimveri for that wonderful quote! How fitting that was for my question, and my study.

Thank you Master Total for your opinion.

Thank you Master Leonidas for your insight. I too found at a young age an older man to be an authority figure, and that was one of the determining factors of why I became collared to him. When first finding out about my slavery, I knew nothing, only that in which came natural, but being with someone older, more experienced that trained and led me down the path I am still on today.

Thank you Master Bull for your candid openness. I have found that it is more difficult when one reaches above their 40's, for a slave that is, for those very same reasons you mentioned, health reasons, children, family obligations and other such reasons.

I wish you are most well.

_____________________________

lishy

"Only one link in the chain of
destiny can be handled at a time. Steer your life in that direction."

Winston Churchill





(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/24/2009 4:33:46 PM   
CharmedAnne


Posts: 73
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		Hi temptinglishy,

I am not gorean now but started out in the lifestyle 2 weeks after my 18th birthday. I had known for several years that I was submissive but never had acted on it ofcourse so it was all thrown at me very quickly. I am still very young at 21 and wish I would have held off a few years to start. I figured at the time I knew who I was and should jump in while I had the courage to do it. After a few bad relationships and stupid mistakes I now see it was a really stupid thing to do. I have tried waiting again and took a break from the lifestyle only to come back, seem's that now I am in the know no other relation seems to work haha.

I know most people (even me in the past) have said that ever one has their own unique experiences and maturity level, but I think people should fully wait until they have become a mature, stable adult before they should try to own/submit to another person.

Hope this answered your question.


_____________________________

Anne

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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/25/2009 3:44:49 AM   
AhuvahXimena


Posts: 50
Joined: 1/6/2009
Status: offline 		Greetings lishy,

*winks to lishy* I know who I am, my path has not been an easy one and I am not free to speak of parts of it but then life deals the cards as a dealer does in poker...you need to make the best of it you can, it is a nasty path to learn to stand on your own feet and take responsiblity for yourself and for others and then to have to learn to surrender that control again. It is a path that can be taken at any age. I have seen several good slaves with an age of several years below my age but also good slaves some of who hat almost twice as many years as me. I believe the experience and maturity comes with the cards we are dealt and the decisions we make, not always with age.

AhuvahXimena

(in reply to CharmedAnne)
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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/25/2009 7:46:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16551
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

Age is not an important factor for me; I've had girls from 23 to 63. It depends on the girl, not the age. Attractiveness counts, as does being an interesting person and having an understanding of what she's getting into, rather than living a fantasy. I want the girl to thrive here, not just be, and I like a peaceful house, not one where I have to constantly correct.

That said, girls tend to be younger, but that's largely because older girls, especially 40s+, have many, many reasons to draw from to explain why they shouldn't serve, why they shouldn't change, and thus swimming upstream against all that baggage is often not worth the time investment. Too bad, really, but it is what it is.

Bottom line for me--I look at a girl separately, as a unique package, and work from there.

I speak just for myself on this, of course. My two tarsks worth.

Live well,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to temptinglishy)
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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/25/2009 1:06:33 PM   
temptinglishy


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Cornfields of Illinois
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters,
Greetings, Mistress',
Greetings girls,

Thank you CharmedAnne for your openness. I would have to agree on that, of being mature and stable before one can own or one can submit, even tho those are reached at different levels instead of different ages IMO.

Thank you AhuvahXimena. I couldn't agree with you more, about reaching those levels at certain points in our lives.

Thank you Master Tim! Thank you for sharing your opinions. You made a point that really made me think, and an old saying can to mind, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

I could see that being a determining factor in so many cases, and have seen that, while perhaps fine for the master/mistress, a slave would always have to be willing to learn "new tricks" to keep herself open to change and the new prospects in her life.

Great food for thought.

I wish you all well.

_____________________________

lishy

"Only one link in the chain of
destiny can be handled at a time. Steer your life in that direction."

Winston Churchill





(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 2/26/2009 3:05:50 AM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1584
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		<quick reply>

greetings lishy....

I will have to agree. Age, as long as both parties are legally adult, really doesn't matter in and of itself. I don't recall who said that for those for whom age is a big deal are looking for a mate, not a Master or a slave. You can pretty well assume that sex plays a major role in their...uh...thinking as well. <grins> I have had slaves from their early 20's to 50's tho the most recent ones are late 20's to 30. Age is not something that is a big factor for me. Willingness to learn and be a slave are much more important.

be well....

Malkinius



_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is beauty.

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 3/3/2009 1:52:01 PM   
temptinglishy


Posts: 26
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Cornfields of Illinois
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Malkinius,

Thank you Master for your refreshing take/outlook. It is very nice to know that there are many out there who determine the much deeper reasons than the age factor.

I wish you most well.

_____________________________

lishy

"Only one link in the chain of
destiny can be handled at a time. Steer your life in that direction."

Winston Churchill





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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 3/3/2009 5:20:22 PM   
Saffleur


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Lenoir NC
Status: offline 		Tal lishy,

In most cases age is but a number I think. It does play a part on a persons thoughts and actions.

There are people who will instantly decree that the world is unfair because they are judged to be irresponsible for being younger.
There are people who will cry out that no male can Master a woman unless he is 30+ has a degree of some sort and is in relatively perfect health.
There are people who really don't give a darn, I'm one of them.

I've been judged by age, others I know have too. Can't say I approve of it but I've been known to change my mind about a person simply on age. I don't voice it however as I would rather give the benefit of doubt.

To people who get their panties in a wad about the age factor, don't let a persons words of "you can't do that you're (insert age)" turn you aside. You're an adult, let your judgment and your desire to better yourself and look for new experiences guide you.

I wish you well,
Scott




_____________________________

When we see men of worth, we should think of equaling them; when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inward and examine ourselves.

(in reply to temptinglishy)
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RE: Age, when does it become a determining factor? - 3/3/2009 11:52:04 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Personally, I think a slave is a slave whether she discovers it (or accepts it) at 18 or 50


  Hi T,

I know that this feeling is a lot more common concerning this issue.
Personally however, I feel that a girl who is young, like 18 ,19 or even 20 is more times then not, just unaware of themselves to seriously committing herself to being a slave.
I mean, at least IMO, a person at that age, female' inparticular, are not even fully aware of their own femininity and how her femininity effects her life in a  whole. I believe at those very young ages, girls are   very much in the process of beginning to discover her (woman hood) While I agree, that being young leaves the path a little less stonier and more open to being trained in a specific manner by whomever may find them selves owning and teaching the girl, I feel it is much more healthier for (all) involved, but moreso to the girl herself if she allows herself to become much more aware of herself on a deeper level, by learning understanding and coming to terms, not only with her femininity as it progresses into the level of woman and not a young adolesant girl but also into the natural feelings she is  having of her submission.
I believe that when a girl' mental and emotional realizations of herself as a woman is clear to her to a level that she has no need to second guess herself and choices( and believe me, we girls do...lol...when we are young like that) and she can honestly say to herself AND those around her, specially the man who may be considering ,collaring her, that she is  comfortable in her own skin , so to speak and comfortable and confident enough about her womanhood that she can happily and securely give over that womanhood entirely and lay it at the feet of that man, knowing, in her heart and mind, that whether this will work out with this particular man or not, she will be ok and that if nothing else came of this current choice and action, that it will be gaining experience and will at least be a definate life lesson for her to fall back on in knowledge further down the line in her life.
LOL...I will stop rambling on, Hope I at least made sense and I hope I came across sufficiantly enough to show these are just my beliefs and opinions.

Much care,
Babs


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Totalmaster4you)
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