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Why does He do it?


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Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 2:06:35 PM   
serisa


Posts: 219
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		i am in a relationship with a man (uncollared/un owned) who has said He is interested in the Gorean lifestyle.  Therefore i am hoping please that someone can give me some input and advice ino something that has become a major problem in O/our relationship.

He would talk to me a certain way, that would make go into a type of space (i will call it slave space for want of a better way to describe it as i dont understand fully what was occuring here).  Some things i would forget or be fuzzy about what He had told me afterwards.  Some things i would remenber.

i soon learnt that if i mentioned any of the things that He had told me during these times when it was not one of these times He would deny everything and pretend He did not know what i was talking about.  Ir really upset me to start with as i couldnt understand what was going and why !.  Eventually He promised me He would no longer say He didnt know what i was talking about and instead say 'I dont want to talk about that at the moment'.  i was very happy and grateful with this new arrangement which worked nicely for several months until one day He reverted back to the old tatic.  i was broke.

That was the end of that and although W/we continued to have a relationship, He never spoke to me again in that way, that was approx one year ago now.  Last week i brought the subject of what happened and requested that please He explain to me what it was all about and why He did it.  There was many things He told me and then denied saying... and it had left me confused wondering if the things He told me were true in the first place or not.

He is still denying everything now, He will not back down.  He knows i know He is lying to me but i just dont understand why He does it.  i can see that He does not want to talk about it... however i am torn between two principles here

1) my submissive side tells me i understand this Man, i know why He does it does it and that is because He doesnt wish to talk about it.  It is His right not to talk about something should He not want to.  My submissive side tells me to back down and accept this part of His character and that is wrong to keep questioning Him on something He does not wish to discuss.

2) my head tells me He is not honest... and that honesty is paramount for any relationship.  i feel He should NOT be lying to me... and these are blatent lies... He is lying about things i know 100% to be true... some things He told me i guess may have not been true in the first place... but i know 100% He initially claimed them to be true.

please can anyone advise me what to do?, i really want this relationship to work.  i know He is really a good Man and that there are always reasons for what He does.

Most grateful to A/anyone who can help.  Thank Y/you
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 2:46:43 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello serisa,

Relationships are built on trust.   I believe any type of relationship, be it M/s, friends, any type.  And if there is not trust how can there be anything?   You have to answer these questions for yourself.  Plus,  I would ask you one more.   How much do you trust this man?   You don't have to answer me, or on the boards, but I strongly suggest you answer yourself, and be honest.   I believe you know the answer, you just don't like it.

I doubt anyone here is going to tell you what to do, or even give you advice on what you should do.    You have to make this decision yourself, you are responsible for you.  Do not expect to be spoon fed answers.

Be well,

Elizabeth

< Message edited by ElizabethAnne -- 3/10/2009 2:49:21 PM >

(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 4:57:39 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: serisa

He would talk to me a certain way, that would make go into a type of space (i will call it slave space for want of a better way to describe it as i dont understand fully what was occuring here).  Some things i would forget or be fuzzy about what He had told me afterwards.  Some things i would remenber.



Sounds like he hypnotized you, and then didn't want to talk about it afterwards because he hadn't meant for you to remember any of it consciously afterwards.

Just a guess.

Re: your relationship:

Trust your best judgement. If it looks like shit, and smells like shit, would you taste it to find out for sure, or would you just leave it?

I'd leave it.

_____________________________

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RE: Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 5:22:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 27135
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		hi serisa

for years i struggled with the decision to stay or leave.  only you can answer that.  i feel for you, i honestly do.  i know this wont be easy, either way.  many tried to give me advice.  i only heard what i wanted to hear.  when i finally could no longer deny the truth, my heart shattered.

it takes more than one to make a relationship of any kind to work.  that is where you have to look to find your answers.

i so wish you luck, and if you need to vent, you can mail me here

tazzy

_____________________________

Barack Obama failed to keep many of the campaign promises that his opponents made for him
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron
+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!
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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 5:46:36 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5310
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Hi serisa

I went through something like that, for a very long time. Of course it isn't exactly what you are going through but there are similarities, my 'problem' (for lack of a better description) happened with my then husband. Countless times he would fully deny entire conversations with me and I had trouble telling exactly what had happened, yet I knew, I knew that while I couldn't recount a blow-by-blow conversation that the conversation had taken place.

Unable to reconcile the truth I became quiet. Not submissive, but unhealthy inside because I knew something was wrong but stayed quiet to keep the peace. It seemed like I was supposed to keep quiet and I was very confused inside.

Eventually he admitted that it was nothing more than head games, that he got a sick thrill out of it all. I have Lupus and Fibromyalgia, with those come 'brain fogs' and serious memory issues.. this is hard to talk about so sorry about the length.. He used that. He knew, and he purposefully used my medical problems to satisfy a warped sadism.

It took me over 10 years and the support of friends to finally get him to admit it.

I should have believed my instincts even though it seemed to go against the submissive woman I am.

If you can, please do your best to believe in yourself. It can be so hard and sometimes feel so wrong to go against him, but sometimes in order to be true to yourself you have to go against others.

~camille, wishing you well.


_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 7:41:06 PM   
WhatUrSeeking


Posts: 49
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: offline 		Because all I know about this situation is what you have written here I clearly can not be sure of anything.  I was thinking though that it is possible that he experiences internal guilt about what he said and or did, and therfore is actually trying to convince himself that it never happened.  Sometimes when we say things we are most trying to convince ourselves. 

(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/10/2009 11:22:57 PM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings serisa,
 
Everyone can speculate about his intentions or reasons etcetera. The real bottom line was said by Elizabethanne. Trust. How much trust still remains is the question. Based on what you've said there doesn't sound like much. But people grasp at things because they don't like change. They are willing to accept far less than they should to avoid change. That's what you sound like serisa. someone hanging on to a man who does explain himself, lies and won't give you peace and trust by sharing with you.
 
My opinion is based on what you've told us, is that to start looking again. you can let him participate among the others in showing their credentials to be your owner. All in all it doesn't seem like staying with your current Dom is a good idea .
 
I wish you well,
T
 

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 2:32:13 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10296
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Hello serisa,
 
Remember that inaction can be as self-defining as action, both are choices that determine outcome.  What do you want in your life and your future?  If your best friend described this situation to you what advice would you give her?
 
Regards,
 
Vendaval

_____________________________

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 6:47:52 AM   
slavetaboo


Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		greetings serisa,

your predicament isn't very clear. you can't really force someone to give you an anwer. she admits it's nice when they will answer and explain when asked. she suggests that if you're happy in the relationship then just forget it. sometimes slaves do have to deal with things they dislike.

she doesn't understand why you would feel compelled to seek an explanation of his behavior a year later and without incident. this seems like a bad idea. if you think he's really full of lies then maybe you shouldn't be in a relationship with him but choose wisely because once you're owned, it's too late.

taboo

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RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 6:58:21 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		After reading your post I went into this kind of space where I was really fuzzy afterwards about what you were trying to say.  Why did you do that?

I think that his alleged interest in the "Gorean lifestyle" doesn't have much to do with his alleged dabbling in the hokus-pokus that he may or may not remember, or does or does not want to talk about, so, I don't think that a Gorean would have anything to offer you that anyone else can't.  Do you like hanging out with mysterious dudes who attempt to engage you in alleged hokus-pokus and then deny it afterward?  If so, mazel tov!  If not, well, I'd start hanging out with less mysterious dudes if I were you, Gorean or not.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 10:56:33 AM   
sweetgirlseeks


Posts: 131
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavetaboo

but choose wisely because once you're owned, it's too late.

taboo



Very dramatic statement.    And entirely untrue.



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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 11:20:28 AM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Tal to the free and property,
 
Interesting sweetgirlseeks with no profile. There's no way to know how knowledgable you are regarding Goreans or their slaves and how they think. Since taboo has been here for some time and is being trained by someone who endeavors to live as a Gorean I believe her advice is more valid than yours. If you'd like more of an explanationas to the why then cmail me and I 'll be glad to explain it to you.
 
serve well,
T

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 12:02:16 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		Hello, Serisa -
 
I've read your post several times, and mulled over what I think you were trying to say and ask.  Can't be completely sure, however, as your posting wasn't all that clear to me in places.  The following thoughts are offered as food for thought, and in no particular order.
 
1.  All people, and therefor all men, are assholes part of the time.  A few are assholes all the time.  The latter is not common.
2.  As Bon Jovi has so elequently sung, "Everybody's broken" in one way or another.  Either your areas of brokeness and issue are a good compliment to each other, and make for a healthy relationship of whatever variety, or they don't.  There isn't much middle ground on that score.
3.  What you are describing could be anything from outright fiction to a case of being involved with a total psychopath nut job.  For the purposes of further comments, I'm going to go with the truth being somewhere betwixt and between.
4.  It is normal to wonder about the "why" behind the actions of those in our lives - perhaps even moreso for a woman than for a man.
5.  Life gets a bit easier, and simpler, once you accept that you will never know all of the "why", especially in a case like this.
6.  In the situation as you've described it, "Why" is of far distant importance to the more pressing question of "What am I going to do about it?"
7.  I speak from personal experience when I say that in dealing with persons who have either memory issues, denial issues, are simply abusive, or thrive on being a master of manipulation, your situation has more to do with them, than with you.  BUT, what you choose to do about it is ALL on you.
8.  The first thing to ask yourself is the same thing that applies in all relationships, "Is what I'm getting out of this relationship (be it internal, external, physical, emotional, yada yada) worth what it is costing me?"
9.  The next pressing question is "Do I have the inner wherewithall to do anything about it?"  IOW, are you enslaved to this person sufficiently to not have it within yourself to do anything about it other than go with the flow?  If you are, and haven't chosen wisely, it isn't a pretty prognosis.  If you aren't, then the quesion comes down to the nitty gritty...
10.  "What am I going to do about it?"
11.  There are several options.  I do not recommend smothering him in his sleep, no matter how tempting it might be at times.  More realistic  - though perhaps less satisfying and quick - solutions are to start making notes documenting things.  This is something you do not for others, but for yourself.  It isn't something you do to prove you are "right" and the other person is "wrong".  You do it to help you get a more accurate picture of what is.  You do it to discover whether or not you are the one with the more major issues.  You do it to determine whether or not you yourself are in need of psych help.  Once you've taken as cold, hard, factual, documentable look at the situation as possible, you elect to stay or go.  If you elect to go,  use your brain, and keep the break as quick and clean as possible.  Go to a shelter where there is good security, if you feel the need for that.  If you elect to stay, then either you accept what is and quit complaining about it, or you matter of factly refuse to buy into any obvious lies.  Do not allow your emotions to be used to manipulate you.  Don't let them make all your decisions for you, either.  That path leads to all sorts of undesireable outcomes.  Learn to say things like, "You are contradicting yourself", "You previously stated XYZ.  Have you changed your mind?" and "Let me check my notes".  All individuals need to be accountable for what they say and do.  Those statements serve to place responsibility where it belongs.
12.  Once you elect to leave, then it is ALL on you, should you weaken and return.
13.  Should you choose to stay, and not make peace with it, but rather address it as discussed at the end of point 11, be advised of two things.  First,  your actions of not playing along, questioning his integrity and honesty rather than your own preceptions and sanity, will result in him being VERY unhappy.  If you can't deal with that, then leaving or acquiessing are probably  better options.  If you do elect to tough it out and deal with it the result will evenually be
a.  He dumps you like a hot potato
b.  He becomes violent
c.  You realize that the situation is untenable and opt to either leave or acquiess
 
It is my firmly held opinion that if I take what you have said at face value, then asking yourself "Why" is about the least productive and healthy avenue you can take.
 
Gorean life is very much about integrity, honesty, and honor.  You might consider how those things are present - and not - in the relationship and individual you've discussed here.  Further, as Liz stated, relationships have a trust factor.  The importance of the trust factor can not be overestimated, IMO.
 
JMNSHO -
Grace

(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 12:18:07 PM   
slavetaboo


Posts: 408
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		greetings sweetgirlseeks,

you might think it's better for people and especially slaves to enter into relationships with the notion they can give up and just ditch if it's not going the way they like. you might also think it's better for those same persons to forget their suspicions and move forward deeper into a situation of becoming property where they could then moan and complain about their suspicions being true. you might think it's better. taboo doesn't.

commitments mean more to some people than others just like being property means more to some people than others. every choice a person makes affects not only their lives but the lives of those around them. 

taboo

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RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 12:35:15 PM   
sweetgirlseeks


Posts: 131
Status: offline 		Not arguing the commitment issue at all, but to say it's 'too late' is simply untrue.   And sometimes better to break a commitment than to feel like you can't.   Especially if you realize you are in a bad situation mentally, physically, emotionally or any combination of the above.





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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 3:20:05 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 27135
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		hi sweetgirlseeks

not sure what your experience is, but, and i think im safe saying this... for many of the girls here, once enslaved, it is a deep commitment, one they do not break lightly or quickly.  for myself, it took me four years to leave a man who never truly enslaved me.  i can only imagine how hard, how nearly impossible that task would have been had he actually tried.  im sure the other girls could put it so much better.  but i have to completely agree with taboo.

well wishes

tazzy

_____________________________

Barack Obama failed to keep many of the campaign promises that his opponents made for him
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron
+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!
Duchess of Dissent 1

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 4:38:07 PM   
serisa


Posts: 219
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		with regards to the issue of Gorean and being able or unable to leave my personal feelings on the matter are that a Gorean slave can leave even if this defies 'rules' simply because no Master is above the law (not here on Urth anyway).
 
However, i feel and hope that if i was owned property i would not want to leave & i could not physically be capable of leaving because my bonds of slavery would be so deep leaving just wouldnt be an option i was truly able to even consider giving thought to.
 
i would hope for this one at least that my slavery would exist on a much deeper level than staying just because Master says 'you must'

< Message edited by serisa -- 3/11/2009 4:40:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 4:43:52 PM   
serisa


Posts: 219
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		i would hope if leaving was something that did cross my mind the idea would be as crazy to me as 'shall i chop my leg off?'  !!

(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 4:48:05 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1711
Status: offline 		Hello tazzy,

While yes, it is incredibly difficult to end a long term relationship, be it M/s, FC, or vanilla, there are times it should be and must be done.  If there is danger to a person, emotional or physical, it is time for it to be over, just as sweetgirlseeks said.  

I don't see where she said a committment meant nothing, I don't see where she said it would be easy.  She simply said...it could be done.  She is correct.  And as you just said, it took four years for you...but you did end it.  

And before anyone gets their knickers in an uproar saying.."Well Goreans believe"....let me tell you, I know some Leather families that take committment JUST as seriously as Goreans.  I know vanilla people that do the same thing.    Goreans aren't the end all be all to all things.  We are just people living our lifes based on principles we believe in, to the best of our abilities.

Be well,

Elizabeth

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why does He do it? - 3/11/2009 5:07:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 27135
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~smiles

Hi Mistress

i think you know better than most how my mind works, Mistress.   and you definitely know more than most about that situation i left.  i wasnt trying to upbrade the girl.  .  was just sharing, Mistress.

i want to thank you for al the time you spent with me back then, and for all you did to try and help.  you and Master Brule gave me more strength than either of you will ever know.

well wishes Mistress

tazzy

_____________________________

Barack Obama failed to keep many of the campaign promises that his opponents made for him
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron
+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!
Duchess of Dissent 1

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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