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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> define M/s relationships?

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define M/s relationships? - 1/31/2006 11:58:05 AM

MasterABD

Posts: 76
Joined: 7/6/2005
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I keep reading posts all over the internet (and on cm) that associate a M/s relationship with a sexual relationship. Many have said that sex must be involved in a M/s relationship "just as in a vanilla relationship".

I see a fundament flaw here. Am I the only one who see's a M/s relationship in the same catagory as a platonic relationship? I hold relationships all the time with both men and women that are not in any way sexual. It would be sad to think sex MUST be involved or the relationship doomed to failure. How would true friendship exist if this were the case?

Now I have heald 2 types of M/s relationships. One I am in with a lover, the other I am in with a friend. One is about building an intimate relationship with, the other is about being a good mentor for (both are actually about being a good mentor). For me, a M/s relationship is not about bdsm, bondage, or kinky sex (in fact I don't even like bondage); rather its about expanding ones mind, growing, learning, and being a good mentor.

What are other peoples ideas of what a M/s relationship actually IS and IS NOT?

-ABitDifferent-
http://www.alternativealbany.com

Post #: 1

RE: define M/s relationships? - 1/31/2006 12:27:09 PM

RedDragonFreehol

Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline

Tal ABD,

Technically, within Gorean Society, the focus is away from the sexual. That is one of the key elements that differentiates Gorean Society from the various segments of the Leather culture.

Short way of saying that you are not alone in your thinking. There is an entire body of Goreans who think exactly that way.

I would assert that it is more than about mentorship. I own my slaves, but there is the potential for any given slave to merely be a kettle (scullery) or tower (housekeeping) slave (not being sure of your understanding of Gorean terms, I thought I would specify). Every slave must be pleasing to her Master as he finds her pleasing, not how she would like to be pleasing. Within my three, there is one who is designated as my pleasure slave, one who is occasional use, and one that is strictly general purpose house (she has both kettle and tower areas of responsibility). My primary sexual relationship is with my Free Companion who absolutely has right of the couch (which in this house equates both to the right to be the only woman who sleeps in my bed with me, and to the right of first refusal, so to speak, where sexual interraction is concerned - a very important point when there is a free woman in the mix is to guarantee this to her within the free companion contract)

At which point, there are many of us who live this way in addition to holding it as a philosophical ideal.

Be well,

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

(in reply to MasterABD)

Post #: 2

RE: define M/s relationships? - 1/31/2006 1:54:03 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterABD
I keep reading posts all over the internet (and on cm) that associate a M/s relationship with a sexual relationship. Many have said that sex must be involved in a M/s relationship "just as in a vanilla relationship".

I haven't seen very many people saying that.

I know I have said that, for most people, their relationships are sexual, and gave the fact that very rarely do you see someone in a Ms relationship with, or considering someone who is NOT a compatible sexual orientation.

Far more common I hear people say they need love in order to be in a M/s relationship.

quote:

What are other peoples ideas of what a M/s relationship actually IS and IS NOT?

Doesn't seem like a particularly gorean question, but ok. For me a M/s relationship is very simply a personal relationship based upon the Master(s) having the ultimate authority and the slave(s) working within the confines of that authority.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MasterABD)

Post #: 3

RE: define M/s relationships? - 1/31/2006 3:20:01 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I keep reading posts all over the internet (and on cm) that associate a M/s relationship with a sexual relationship. Many have said that sex must be involved in a M/s relationship "just as in a vanilla relationship".

I'm assuming you want an answer as it pertains to Goreans since you posted it here. From a Gorean point of view, a slave is a slave. She is property. Not to be confused with a kinky girlfriend or submissive spouse. There is no requirement that you fuck your slave. I have had girls that I didn't use sexually. One was here last summer seeing to the household and my first girl's children while they were here for the summer.

I have known other Gorean men to keep slaves that they didn't use sexually. Sometimes, the girl in question was given for the sexual use of guests. Less frequently, she wasn't used sexually at all. I can only think of one instance where this was a long term situation though. Gorean bondage is usually quite sexual in nature. It's not generally possible to fully develop the submission of a female slave (as we think about it) without mastering her sexually. In the cases where I have known men who owned girls that they didn't use, and in the instances where I have, it is generally because the girl is there to be trained and she is granted the mercy of not being made to submit to her training master in that way so that her bondage to him is not so deep and her transition to a permanent master will be easier.

I don't think that you are going to find many potential female slaves who want to sign up for long-term celebacy, though. That kind of woman is generally more attracted to religous zelot-hood than Gorean slavery.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to MasterABD)

Post #: 4

RE: define M/s relationships? - 1/31/2006 3:27:23 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedDragonFreehol

Tal ABD,

Technically, within Gorean Society, the focus is away from the sexual. That is one of the key elements that differentiates Gorean Society from the various segments of the Leather culture.

Short way of saying that you are not alone in your thinking. There is an entire body of Goreans who think exactly that way.

I would assert that it is more than about mentorship. I own my slaves, but there is the potential for any given slave to merely be a kettle (scullery) or tower (housekeeping) slave (not being sure of your understanding of Gorean terms, I thought I would specify). Every slave must be pleasing to her Master as he finds her pleasing, not how she would like to be pleasing. Within my three, there is one who is designated as my pleasure slave, one who is occasional use, and one that is strictly general purpose house (she has both kettle and tower areas of responsibility). My primary sexual relationship is with my Free Companion who absolutely has right of the couch (which in this house equates both to the right to be the only woman who sleeps in my bed with me, and to the right of first refusal, so to speak, where sexual interraction is concerned - a very important point when there is a free woman in the mix is to guarantee this to her within the free companion contract)

At which point, there are many of us who live this way in addition to holding it as a philosophical ideal.

Be well,

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

Tal Omega,

It would seem that we see the working of our homes in a very similar light.

I am in agreement with both you and ABD. There are several Masters I know both Gorean and no Gorean who have erectile dysfunction due to their medical situations and yet they function excelently in their role as Masters of their girls. I have commented that the day i get looked at in my home as "The Stud" I'll become a kaiila and leave the Mastery to others, for I will have failed as a Master. Sex is important to remain healthy and balanced but it has it's place and is not the be all and end all.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to RedDragonFreehol)

Post #: 5

RE: define M/s relationships? - 1/31/2006 4:04:16 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2932
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I see a fundament flaw here. Am I the only one who see's a M/s relationship in the same catagory as a platonic relationship?

I know M/s relationships come in all shapes and packaged.
The majority of which do NOT include sex in the box.

quote:

My primary sexual relationship is with my Free Companion who absolutely has right of the couch (which in this house equates both to the right to be the only woman who sleeps in my bed with me, and to the right of first refusal, so to speak, where sexual interraction is concerned - a very important point when there is a free woman in the mix is to guarantee this to her within the free companion contract)

This is how it worked in Our Gorean Home as well with one small exception, There were two Gorean Free Masters in the House One Alpha the other Beta with the Alpha having first say to the Free Woman over the Beta. The Free Woman having Primary choice over both Masters over all others. Id say that a good 60% or so of the M/s or M/M/s or M/s/s relationships in the House were NON Contact Sexual in nature compaired to the M/M or M/M/M Contact sexual relationships being closer to 80%.

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/6/2006 12:22:48 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 6

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 2:39:40 AM

mons

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

reddragron

do you ever fall in love with anyone of your slaves? every human be it gorean or bdsm submissive or anyone of these needs and i mean needs human touch of love sexual pleasure are great but to know the one you touch loves you,but do you return the love at all? any woman and myself is not immune to falling in love with my submissives it is not something that one can control ever it happens all of the time.now the kitchen woman does she get any attention from you at all? a hug or a smile and does she love you too. this is something i want to understand you hold a great deal of power over your slave one look of disappointment can send one of them running and hoping they will make you happy what everittakes please tdo tell me. as a dominant woman i hold agreat deal of power over the submissives i have one i own he glances at me for a single " yes you have done a great job " this is power how to you handle this power over three slaves/

with greeting

mons

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 7

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 7:24:29 AM

RedDragonFreehol

Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline

Tal mons,

Actually, I love all my slaves at one level or another. That is the kicker though. There are a lot of levels of love, and just like I do not love all my children equally, I do not love all my slaves equally. Now, a lot of parents want to deny the idea that they do not love their children equally, but if they are realistic about their relationships with their children, they will find that they have a much deeper relationship, and a much closer bond with one child. That is just the way human relationships work. I don't make the rules, but I understand the game.

Yes, I hug all my slaves, and kiss them, and pet their heads while they rest their head on my knee. What would give you the idea that I do not?

Be well,

Omega

(in reply to mons)

Post #: 8

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 9:39:45 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

You are absolutely right about the favouritism in parent/children relationships Omega. All one has to do to proove it to themselves is think of their own family, who was Mom's favourite, and who was dad's. If your parents had favourites that were so obvious to you, then what on earth makes you think you don't.
We try to be fair and not to let the fact that we are closer to one of our children in any way disadvantage the others, but that doesn't change the fact that you feel different degrees of closeness with them.
Like Omega, I did not make the rules, and like him I accept the rules of the game of life that we all have to play.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to RedDragonFreehol)

Post #: 9

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 10:43:53 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2932
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Arpig
There were 21 of Us kids in My parents Home 18 blood related in some kind of way.
and 11 in My Home 6 that were mine the others slaves.
I dont remember any of Us kids being singled out as being a favorite because
in My book favorite ment being called more then the others and being called
usually meant work was to be done and I really see no favoritizem in work. lol
The same went in My house alltho having 5 boys and the slaves having all boys
befor My gurl was born did let her get the bulk of the attention from her
brothers in just about every way shape or form and in all actions she ever
took. Watching boys court her was a pittiful sight with the brothers she had
when she was a teen! I agree tho in the different levals of care for a slave.
I do love My slaves however I would never be * inlove * with My slaves.
Love and vows and commitment I could only have with other Free or Dominants.
And I have different care for a slaves based on their lenth of service and
if they are Owned by Me or were Owned by My FC's and if there were
children involved that added to the familys value. My children do come
befor My slaves children in care both by My self and the slaves but all are
cared for as needed including the slaves basics. Affection is wholly another thing
as I am not a person who is outwardly affectionate to much hence My showing
such would usually be turned to the Free Men with in the Home rather then
a slave unless it is in service of a spacific thing such as a masocist slave
fullfilling the needs of a Sadist or a yard slave doing a good job in the yard
and I would purchase a special flower that slave liked, House slaves getting
household trinkets and such.... and for the record My relationship I speak of
was a [ Gor-Poly MM-MF-Mm/sM-sm6-sF2-sf7 ] at that time. ( whispers...
does anybody understand the definition of this M/s relationship above? ) ~smiles~

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/6/2006 10:45:00 AM >

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 10

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 10:49:49 AM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

Waving to MistressDread, it's been a long time, hope things are going well for you and you have recovered from all the hurricanes.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 11

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 11:51:35 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2932
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

runs over and picks up the proud sub and twirls her around in the air......... Heyyy You!!!!
Where you been ?? Ive been here for damn near a month now and havent been banned
yet!!!

Hows hubbie ?? Hows that golf game commin ??
Ive finished two of the houses repairs and am working on the third and a forth that I
just aquired for the new year. ( Im such a glutton for work! ) Gawd what Id of give
to have been born some where in the middle of My Families kids instead of the Oldest
Ya kno? ~snickers~ thinking you can never pull out of Ya no matter how old Ya get that
damn work bug thats hidin in Ya skin sum where always itchin Ya.
Oldest Son was Home for 6 weeks He just left back overseas again Sat. 3rd tour now.
Stayin warm ??

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/6/2006 12:23:24 PM >

(in reply to proudsub)

Post #: 12

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 12:44:57 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

runs over and picks up the proud sub and twirls her around in the air......... Heyyy You!!!!
Where you been ?? Ive been here for damn near a month now and havent been banned
yet!!!

WOW is that a record for you? a whole month. I left CM in August, I think, because Hubby was upset about posting too much personal information and spending too much time online. I came back a few days ago to read some posts and just couldn't help myself, had to reply to a few. I think I'll hang around but certainly won't put the time into it that I used to. Snickering, as I realize this is my third visit to CM today and it's only 12:30.

quote:

Hows hubbie ?? Hows that golf game commin ??

He's just fine, thank you for asking. I'm not sure about golf, we've only had one dry day since early Nov., but the sun is out this week so going to play in the mud tomorrow.

quote:

Ive finished two of the houses repairs and am working on the third and a forth that I
just aquired for the new year. ( Im such a glutton for work! )

Sounds like progress, hope next summer is easier on you. Speaking of work, I'm headed out to pick up branches left all over our property from a big windstorm last Sat. We really need to move to a condo, I'm getting too old for this.

quote:

Oldest Son was Home for 6 weeks He just left back overseas again Sat. 3rd tour now.
Stayin warm ??

Hope he stays safe. Hubby keeps me warm, thank goodness, with the price of oil.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

Post #: 13

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/6/2006 3:56:04 PM

mons

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

reddragon

for some reason i thought the woman or slave who works in thekitchen and gives littles of your time wasnot getting enough love my mistake and it true we do love each child a little different but it is not that much difference a pat on the head i guess must be a great deal when that is all your getting. i was just writing about when you had said that you have three one is your very special one the other comebehind her

wellwishes
mons

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 14

RE: define M/s relationships? - 2/7/2006 3:24:24 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2932
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I left CM in August, I think, because Hubby was upset about posting too much personal information and spending too much time online

ahhhh so the thread jerker got jerked her self!!!

Well its good to see Ya lil darlin and yes you should go condo if you cant keep up with the yard, or find a sub freind that loves that kind of work. anyhoo aint gonna talk to you any more cause then youll get in trouble and be gone another 6 months.....~snickers~
sounds like Hubbies taken to the Dominating pretty darn good. Oil Smoil another ten years We wont need it any more anyhow `~ wink~

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/7/2006 3:26:30 PM >

(in reply to mons)

Post #: 15

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