RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/10/2006 6:54:46 AM

starshineowned

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Thankyou Master RedDragonFreehol for clearing that up.

starshine
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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/10/2006 7:44:55 AM

MasterABD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Another question to solve the mystery..the use of Tal..Is the use of it by the Free to a slave or by a slave to a Free or to another slave used in the books somewhere? As far as online (the chatrooms, websites) area's that have visited always keep saying this is a greeting word used only amongst and for the Free.

In all honesty, I hate the vast majority of online protocol. Tal is a word that may be used by any gorean be them free or not. In much the same respect talking in third person is something that was started online. In my opinion all the online protocols I have seen take away from a slave, make them seem more ignorant then intelagent, and sadly enough has leaked from the internet into some peoples homes.

For this reason and a great many more you will never see me use the word Tal, or any other words that are specific to being a gorean of gor. To be quite forward about it, if we could jump in the pages of the books and talk to a gorean of the planet gor, I think we would likely find that they would be insulted us barbarian earth creatures would even suggest that we have half enough understanding to use the words of gor.

I know a great many gorean masters believe that we should make as much of the books a reality as humanly possable. It is my belief however that this insults the truiths of gor. We are barbarians and at best we can try to make the philosphies of gor a reality, but not every last detail of the books. Perhaps the best way to describe it is, I see gor on earth as a transgression point. We are slowly starting to learn how to not be barbarians, yet we still are, and some things should be left for those who are not.

On the same page as all this, could I make the gor of the books more real in my life? I probably could. However why would I? A great deal of postings I read talk about how much more literal people on earth should take gor. I see them say the some of the only things we can't do on are are either make believe, or will get us locked up. Two of the biggest examples are always "you will never see a tarnsman flying on earth" and "we can't kill our slaves here on earth". Well we can't see a tansman on earth, as there are no tarns, however if people want to take the books of gor so literally, why not kill our displeasing slaves? For reasons of being locked up? I assure you I have had slaves that had I gave an order to drive off the top of a mountain, they would have. It would be considered suicide not murder.

But as I said, for an EARTH creature to give such a command, would be barbaric We do not have the same level of comprehension as those on gor do. We think in a totally different setting and manner. Therefor as I already stated, some things should be left for those who are not barbaric erth creatures.

-ABitDifferent-
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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/10/2006 7:47:09 AM

RedDragonFreehol

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Tal Ironbear,

I am glad whenever I can insert a little humor into things.

My best to you and yours,

Omega

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/10/2006 8:08:52 AM

starshineowned

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Thankyou MasterABD for expressing this.

In speaking about what is and is not or can and can not be taken from the books. On a genuine personal note I take it as meaning the mindset/mentality than anything in the action/literal sense. To take it really any other way to me would somehow mean there was a loose stone in reality there that either myself or they were standing on.

I do still struggle with the very aspect of anyone saying outright they are Gorean in such a "as a matter of fact" statement. I can not quite make that leap. The best I have arrived at thus far are Earthly persons who believe and identify with "real ideals and philosophys" that have been a part of Earth Mans history for some time now, and nicely put alot of them into a fictional series of books for easy reading. This I do not really quibble about as I try to not take it ever literal but rather understand the underlying jest.

Thankyou in advance

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/10/2006 8:21:05 AM

IronBear

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Tal ABD,

I understand what you are saying although I don't completely agree, it is a good point. One issue I'd like to raise is the Barbarians... Traditionally, for many civilizations, my natural people ~ the Celts, were considered Barbarerian and yet it was the Celtic Barbarians who sacked Rome and defeated the much vaunted Pretorian Guard whilst the Roman Leagon stood by, being banned from crossing the Tiber River and entering Rome. The reason for the sacking was that Rome reneged in a promise to assist the Celts in a battle. Never understimate pissed off Barbarians.... I think the Barbariac Earthmen would be assimilated into Gor without too much trouble.

It's all in the game and how you play it.......

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/10/2006 4:04:54 PM

RedDragonFreehol

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Tal ABD,

Third person speech was more than just an online protocol. In the books, and this is subtle I will admit, you might notice that as kajira progressed in their slavery, they naturally lapsed into third person at some point. Norman used it as a literary convention to show when a girl had internalized her slavery, and no longer thought of herself as potentially attaining her freedom again.

In the real world of Gorean slaves in real time, I have found that it does three things. First, it reinforces a girl into thinking of herself as slave every time she speaks. Second, it forces a girl to actually think about what she is saying because she has to carefully frame what she has to say in a somewhat unnatural pattern of speech. Third, it differentiates the Free Companion from the slaves in a household that has both.

I would consider all three of them to be somewhat important.

Be well,

Omega

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/11/2006 4:02:30 AM

unownedredhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I expect her to be protective enough that she will be ready to protect my back and if trained correctly in appropriate techniques to double as body guard if required. In effect, she is my human guard dog. Would a kajira be given access to weaponary? Agen dependent on circumstances and especially if it was apparent that she had a prior interest i using weapons (ie target or sporting shooting, fencing, martial arts etc), Hell yes I'd actively ecourage her to maintain her iterest as part of the growth and fitness of the whole person. Such a person may, for a treat, even be allowed to assist me in the cleaning of my own personal armory. Is this book? Hell no but it is an extention of the book lifestyle and to some degree cam be supported by the actions of kajirae in the defence of Port Kar.

It's all in the game and how you play it.........

Tal,

I am so glad you said this. I own a rifle and the difference between real life and the books, I dont think I should be punished for it. Why are people asking what is the difference? One is real life and the other isn't. I am new to this site but I am starting to tell the difference between those who are speaking from the heart and those that are just role playing a computor internet chat persona. Some of the questions on here make me want to shake my head. I actually read the word, "I am starting to doubt preist kings exist," . Is it just me or is there something very wrong with this statement? I just want to scream..."get out of your mothers basement!".

dina

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/11/2006 4:07:34 AM

IronBear

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/11/2006 4:09:46 AM

unownedredhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedDragonFreehol

You should be in Colorado, where we have a coherant, unified, and cohesive group of 30+ Goreans who meet in real time frequently, and live in real time 24/7.

I have yet to see a sleen show up in my backyard.

The problem is agreement, and you have everything from people who practice what is technically mostly BDSM with a bit of Gor on top, all the way to hard core Gorean purists like me who believe in living this by the book, and adhering to the books as closely as possible. It takes all kinds I guess.

As for the thoughts on boards, I was truely shocked when I came into online Gor, now nearly 3 years ago. Having been part of that Gorean contingent who had always lived this in real time, I was not amused by all the penis measuring, and the "my Gorean is larger than your Gorean" threads. What I have found on most of the Gorean channels is enough fruits and flakes to make a breakfast. Interspaced with them though, you find a few who do in fact live this in real time.

Be well,

Tal Master RedDragin,

I too am right there with you. Breadfast cereal is a very nice way of putting it. So how far is Colorado from Port Coqutilam, BC? My sense of humour is also rearing its ugly head...Colorado? get it Collar....ok...sorry. I would love to visit your community. Is it allowed?

Respectfully,

Dina

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/11/2006 4:17:15 AM

unownedredhead

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Tal Master IronBear,

I am so glad you said that, lol.

dina

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/11/2006 7:05:20 AM

MasterABD

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quote:

Traditionally, for many civilizations, my natural people ~ the Celts, were considered Barbarerian

Greetings IronBear,

Indeed you are correct, many civilizations did consider the celts barbaric. However at the same time, many did considered them just the opposite. We are still today learning the leasons which they new in 90 BCE. Things like separation of boys and girls when educating, which we are just starting to realize actually helps children learn more and faster, they new 2000+ years ago. And how barbaric is the practice of going to battle naked? Many would thing very barbaric, others would think pure genious, I think the results spoke for themselves personally.

The difference between that and gor, is EVERYONE on gor considered earth to be a planet of barbarians. You suggest us earthlings would easily be assimilated. I on the other hand think most earthlings would do exactly like Tarl and try to "change the world", freeing every slave they come accross and be unwilling to accept things as they truely are.

quote:

and this is subtle I will admit, you might notice that as kajira progressed in their slavery, they naturally lapsed into third person at some point.

Greetings RedDragonFreehol,

Can you give me any such quote of third person speach? I am not at all saying you are wrong in any way, just looking for when this transgression happened and perhaps which books I should be looking in.

quote:

but I am starting to tell the difference between those who are speaking from the heart and those that are just role playing a computor internet chat persona

Greetings unownedredhead,

Let me say first of all I agree with you, there are many on these forums (and across the internet) who simpily are role players. I see nothing wrong with roleplaying, unil they start claiming they are realtime, not online. Then they become nothing more then a man (or woman) who lie.

However, let me say that the truth is one cannot always judge so quickly. There is a very real, very serious master I know of who is so strict and so by the books that he actually scares me to think about. Had I not actually found a jounal online of a slave who left him due to this fact, I would have easily misjudged him as nothing more than one of the roleplayers (and he does in fact have more slaves). This formor slaves in fact, fealt it was such a bad experience she left the lifestyle altogether. She believes she still has the burning in her heart, but for fear she met another master like him, she simpily won't return.

My reason for saying this is because we often overlook postings of those we have already judged to be "roleplayers". In doing so you may actually be missing informatin of someone who has reallife offline experience. Just a little thought for you to ponder.

-ABitDifferent-
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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/13/2006 4:11:08 AM

unownedredhead

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I will take that under advisement. but, I am a little confused you are telling me not to dismiss men who I assume are just roleplaying on the net because a man who sounded like he was just roleplaying on the net scared a woman so bad she now has given up her dream. ok let me try this again. If a master is so strict about the protocols of the book he may be either just on online gamer or a man to be avoided? Is that better. dina

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/13/2006 8:24:41 AM

MasterABD

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What i mean is some realtime experience is valuable, some is not. Just because a master is extremely strict, or what most would consider to be overly strict, doesn't mean he doesn't have valuable realtime experience. Perhaps that overly strict master has in fact very valid points in his own methodology. If he goes home at night and beats his women (not saying he does) to a bloody mess, that doesn't mean that he is clueless about gorean philosphy. He may still have very valuable information, you just have to weed out how strict YOU wish to be or how strict you think YOUR master should be.

To dismiss him as a roleplayer could infact mean you are missing very valuable experience he has. Perhaps he is overly strict in his slave punishments but still knows about training a slave in an offline setting. Perhaps he knows information about how to teach slaves slave dances. Perhaps he knows about information on weightloss methods. The point is, unless you are reading his posts, you would never know.

Do you want to avoid him as being your master, perhaps. Do you want to avoid him, thats questionable. So yes I would again say, don't be to quick in placing judgement calls.

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RE: age differences in the Master/slave relationship - 2/16/2006 10:43:46 AM

ZanderD

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So true that age does and does not matter,the mental age of a master/Jarl is wjhat matters most in a m/s relationship,hell I'm 18 and have been through more shit than most will ever want to know or hear about. but I always keep an open mind to others Ideas,although I may not agree....anyways the answer to your queston I have Masterd some 40 year olds and up even,they questioned the age berrior at first but then,the accepted it.

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