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Women for President - 2/5/2006 6:38:24 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Well i am sitting here watching CBS News this morning and they have this segment on a woman being elected president. Some of the interesting polls stated that 95% of America would indeed vote for a woman president if she were qualified, however 57% of women stated they are sceptical of the US being ready for a woman president that to the 47% of men. It is said that women are held up to a higher standard than Men in such an office, what people are worried about is a woman's ability to lead the US in National Security. But another major thing people are reluctant to see in the US is the "First Husband." Even in the show Commander in Chief there was a hard turn about in her husband taking the role of a first husband as does the first lady.

So what am i asking? Even though there were female led cities and government in the Gorean cities.. they were not the majority, The US is considered one of the world's Super Power right now, we have 2 major parties here in the US.. and political party is usually very important to people also, so i am wondering what the take on the US having a woman president in the mind of GOREANS.

Do you feel being Gorean has or doesn't have anything to do with who runs the country? Do you have issues with a woman being able to lead our country; why or why not; do you feel that Men are better to be in such an office as a world super power; If you are staunchly against a woman as president, would you in fact vote against your party or not at all? Do you believe the government so screwed up that you wouldn't be surprised if they put a woman in office. There are all kinds of questions i could ask... This is open to all countries.. i just focus on the US cause its what i know..

I am asking this within the gorean forum because i am curious about gorean opinion based on their beliefs and mindsets. I realize a lot of people who don't consider themselves Gorean come here saying "i am not gorean but here is my opinion anyway" and turn these topics into a free for all of just general opinions but i really am looking for those opinions from those who consider themselves GOREAN. Thanks.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Women for President - 2/5/2006 10:08:06 AM   
wolffeathers


Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline 		It all really depends.

As you said, in the books, some women lead.

However, I do fear that if a women were to take over the role of Pres. we'd have the same issues of those goverments that are lead by women in the books.

To me, there are few real women that run for office. Most are attempting to be male, or Men.

Therefore, we may see, not only OUR lifestyle, but that of our close nieghbors (BDSM) be slowly chipped away.

Yes, on one hand a liberal (as that's the only way I see a women winning the high seat) president may be more open about our lifestyle.

On the other hand, the liberal mindset, at least in my experence, is that of Sameness.

We are all the Same.

There are no Men and Women, just people.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to barelynangel)
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RE: Women for President - 2/5/2006 10:36:08 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wolffeathers
To me, there are few real women that run for office. Most are attempting to be male, or Men.

This SMACKS of a penis envy issue that I'm sure someone is goin to take issue with. LOL I found it funny though. I think the BIG issue with a women in the White House will be what Wolffeathers said. Not based on her gender but because she'll just be the same kind of jackass' we have in there now. At least, I think this is what he said. LOL

To clearify on the penis envy issue. I'm refering to the women that need to strive to be men as having the penis envy. Not Wolffeathers. Just thought I needed to make that clear.


_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: Women for President - 2/5/2006 3:58:05 PM   
millisande


Posts: 182
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44
Not based on her gender but because she'll just be the same kind of jackass' we have in there now. At least, I think this is what he said. LOL


This is basically what I meant...I think....maybe....I don't know....


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RE: Women for President - 2/5/2006 7:52:28 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		You have to be a certain kind of individual to get that job. You have to have a hunger for power that outweighs just about any other consideration, including your personal integrity. You have to be well connected, and keenly interested in rewarding those connections (your cronies) after you get the job so that those with wealth, power, and influence can continue to enjoy wealth, power, and influence. You need to firmly believe that you know how to run people's lives better than they do. A woman with that kind of makeup is probably a lot rarer beast than a man who is that way, but the rare woman who is would probably do no worse than the men who are.

I don't think it would be a case of a woman wanting to be like a man that became president. I think it would be a case of a woman who really is like a man, and a particular kind of man at that. In other words, we wouldn't see her as particularly feminine or womanly. She just wouldn't happen to have a dick. There are many women who just plain aren't particularly feminine (highly sexed female). Many of them are gay, and we probably aren't going to elect an (openly) butch lesbian president anytime soon.

If we still expected our leader to take up arms and march off to war with his men (as the man that I took my nickname from did) then, from a Gorean point of view, the oval office would be no place for a woman. That isn't the case though. A woman of the temperment and makeup that I described above would probably have no more trouble sending men off to die than a man of similar temperment, and for just about the same reasons.

All that said, our leaders, in both government and business, are going to continue to be predominantly men, and you may well not see a woman President in your lifetime. It's natural for human beings (both men and women) to look to men to lead, and it's natural for men (as a group) to be more interested in leading. The only way that we can change that is by making the playing field decidedly un-level in one way or another, and that's much harder to do in the democratic process than it is in the private sector.

So, to sum up, no, I as a Gorean man wouldn't have any problem with a woman President who could get the job in the first place.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 2/5/2006 7:54:34 PM >

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Leonidas

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RE: Women for President - 2/14/2006 7:16:02 AM   
wolffeathers


Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline 		Grrr...I just now noticed I was logged in as milli when I made that post. It was me, not her.....grrrr.....

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to millisande)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 8:31:02 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Greetings,

I posed this question to the Gorean community a while ago, and i thought based on some current political decisions occurring in the US, i would bump it up to offer it again as a discussion topic to the Gorean community.

To clarify what my initial post says, i would be interested as a part of Gorean community, the views based on people who are replying based on their understandings of Gorean. I am not trying to keep out those who regularly post in this section who don't identify as Gorean but may have understandings and such and views based along the same line as Gorean. Hope this makes sense. I don't want to leave anyone out who participates but doesn't identify if that makes sense.


Well wishes,

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 1/24/2007 8:34:39 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 8:47:15 AM   
Wyrd


Posts: 109
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Columbia, SC
Status: offline 		LOL, in a sadistic kind of way I hope Hillary does get the job, she is not up to being a good role model, and will set the women's movement back quite a ways.

That being said, she is as able to lead as any man who would get elected, to rise to that level you have to be willing to lie, cheat, steal, and be overall the worst that humanity has to offer, and she fits in well with that level of politics.

However it will cause problems with our foreign relations, I doubt Male dominated nations like most of Asia, the middle east and Africa will see a woman as a leader, so she will have to be harder than a male in the role, which will in turn lead to conflicts we could otherwise avoid.

I myself don't particularly follw the leaders we have now, a woman there would simply make me even less likely to be concerned, I am simply wating for the pendulum to swing back to sanity, hoping I live to see it.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 9:22:29 AM   
Ashaia


Posts: 239
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		Tal...

I just had an odd question, and thought it might fit in here. Last night, the President did his state of the union address. The introductions of the people always create a clapping ovational stir. There is protocol, certain people come in before the president. In years past, when the Speaker of the House arrived, the announcer said, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Speaker of the House... (insert name), but this year, the announcer said, "Ladies and gentlemen, Madame Speaker of the House.

Why all of a sudden is there gender notice attached? Will a female president be Madame President?

Ashaia

(in reply to Wyrd)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 9:33:47 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hello Ashaia,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ashaia

Tal...

I just had an odd question, and thought it might fit in here. Last night, the President did his state of the union address. The introductions of the people always create a clapping ovational stir. There is protocol, certain people come in before the president. In years past, when the Speaker of the House arrived, the announcer said, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Speaker of the House... (insert name), but this year, the announcer said, "Ladies and gentlemen, Madame Speaker of the House.

Why all of a sudden is there gender notice attached? Will a female president be Madame President?

Ashaia


It would be Madame President, just as it is Mister President.  I suppose the tradition and protocol is still in place in the House of the People.  Hence, the differentiating of the genders.  Nancy Pelosi (spelling) will be referred to during sessions as Madame Speaker.  They do the same thing with cabinet positions as well.  I never gave it much thought.  Hmmm.... Madame Undersecretary...

I wish you well,
Thadius

P.S. There is no way that Hillary can win the election, I highly doubt she will win the nomination of her own party.  Dem ticket will probably be Richardson/Edwards Richardson/Clinton  or Edwards/Clinton.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Ashaia)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 9:47:04 AM   
Ashaia


Posts: 239
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		Thadius,

Is it more likely to allow a minority race but male gender as a President than it would be a caucasian but female?

Ashaia

(I personally like a lot of the things Obama has been saying, and I like Guiliani too, if he decides to throw his hat into the ring.)

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 10:06:20 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Ashaia,

Actually I would cast a vote for Dr. Rice if she threw her hat in the ring.  So where does that put me.  I think it is more about the polarizing effect that Hillary would have, than the fact she is a woman.  Although many in the country may not be ready for a female president, just yet.

Originally being from Illinois, and knowing some of the more active political types personally (South side of Chicago), I have a different perspective on Obama.  While he is a very charismatic and well spoken man, I think the baggage that would surface will keep him from being a contender on that level.  Lets just say that some of the people that helped him get elected, may be getting indicted over the next year or so.  He can and will remain a senator from Illinois for as long as he chooses to continue to run, but as a national candidate I think biases, scandals, and racism may be too much to overcome.

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 2:39:24 PM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wyrd

However it will cause problems with our foreign relations, I doubt Male dominated nations like most of Asia, the middle east and Africa will see a woman as a leader, so she will have to be harder than a male in the role, which will in turn lead to conflicts we could otherwise avoid.


Our secretary of state is a woman.  She is the one who negotiates with these people or who engineers that negotiation.  I don't see that as an issue, but I see plenty of other questions about a female president.  I think she is going to have to fight so many credibility issues that she won't have the time and support needed for good governance.  There will be more coverage of her fashion than of foreign policy.

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If you think something is too good to be true, it probably is.

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 3:52:54 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		To me, it's not a case of "a woman", as much as "which woman."
 
Senator Clinton is routinely hated, for a multitude of reasons that really aren't important to this discussion. Secretary Rice isn't really a powerful person in her own right, at least not now. She is more of a front person for her cohorts higher up the food chain. This would surely become much more clear, were she a serious candidate.
 
I personally like Senator Clinton, have no illusions about her electability.  

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 4:01:48 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		caityln,

know what has never made much sense to me. If Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas for so long then president, how is Hilary now a Senator from NY? That has always bothered me. How long had they really lived in New York for? Why wouldn't she run from Arkansas which I would consider to be their home state.

just wondering
kisshou

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 4:08:51 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings kisshou,


Because the residents of Arkansas know her very well and it is likely she would never have been elected. She was known to have a bad temper and a razor tongue when dealing with anyone she viewed beneath her. This is just what many of the residents around Little Rock said when I went through there several years ago, so I do not know for sure.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

caityln,

know what has never made much sense to me. If Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas for so long then president, how is Hilary now a Senator from NY? That has always bothered me. How long had they really lived in New York for? Why wouldn't she run from Arkansas which I would consider to be their home state.

just wondering
kisshou

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 4:12:34 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		The Clintons own a primary residence in New York state, which makes them legal residents of that state. I believe that's the only requirement. I think you will find that this happens quite often with political leaders.

Senator Clinton was actually born and raised in Chicago.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 1/24/2007 4:14:39 PM >

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 4:40:05 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Orion ...
 
In the interest of keeping with the theme of a master never being wrong, I'll try to phrase this appropriately.
 
Senator Clinton's main tie to New York, was that she was a long time staffer and protege' of the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D, NY), and was actually hand picked and endorsed as his successor ... not unheard of in New York.
 
Moynahan, originally from Oklahoma, was so popular in New York, that his endorcement was basically a defacto appointment.
 
Senator Clinton possibly would not have won in Arkansas, primarily because of the difficulty of non-native candidates to win in southern states, and that she had never served on staff, or in any capacity in Arkansas, other than as the wife of Governor Clinton.
 
She simply had no power base in Arkansas, and had an almost unlimited power base in New York.
 
Respectfully submitted ... cc 

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 4:42:40 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		i think it's long overdue. the time has come for us to elect a female president. look at how long men have been in control and just how srewed up this country is. but ladies, isn't typical of men that, when they create a mess, they leave it for a woman to clean up because it would get cleaner than if they tried?

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Women for President - 1/24/2007 4:47:09 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		greetings,

thank you both for the information, it was interesting to learn. I don't know why I don't like Hilary Clinton , there is just something about how she comes across when she speaks.

I could see voting for someone like Mistress Maashahatii (can't spell that!) for president, she has the courage of her convictions :)

well wishes
kisshou

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 20
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