Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account		 As the Collar Turns:
 Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home  Login  Search 
Espanol  Deutsch  Francais  Italiano  Portugues 

RE: Autonomy and "slave"


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: Autonomy and "slave" Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/12/2006 2:58:10 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37442
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GingerleeDREAD


quote:

ad nauseum


LMBAO!! Priceless!



I would like to blame this on my carpal tunnel but it would SEAM that it is due to my flunking high school latin......I was unable to keep up with the orums and so on............

LOL,

I am glad you got a chuckle.

Sincerely,

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to GingerleeDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/12/2006 3:57:45 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		chuckles.. actually on some level it was sarcasm, but on some level it was not. For all intent and purposes, i could actually be wrong in my thinking lol as you can see many believe i am. Some say i see black and white a lot of times.. in this aspect i do. You either are "a" slave owned or you are not "a" slave but unowned and recognize slave wanting to be owned. Its what i call dual identification. People utilize slave for both descriptions. To me it seems because of this, many don't really "get" what makes the gorean slave and therefore, what is a gorean slave.

Your questions are partly why i believe a woman can only be "a" slave when she is owned. Until i am owned again, i have my autonomy, which means i have my preferences and my ability to choose. Once owned, i have no autonomy and my Master decides what i do, whom i serve and whom i am at the mercy of -- operative word is Master, not me.

Don't get me wrong, i am not stupid enough to believe that if a Man with the strength to enslave me wishes it to be so it won't happen its why i recognize slave.

Your questions all depend on how you answer my question of can a woman be a slave and still have her autonomy and be unowned.

If you say no she is not slave if she is not owned, then your questions are easily answered.

If you say yes they are, i cannot answer them because i don't believe a woman is "a" slave unless she is owned. Therefore, when a woman is "a" slave those questions become moot because then the answer is "ask her Master."

I recognize gorean slavery, i ache for the ownership of a Gorean Man, this is why i understand the difference between being a slave (owned) vs wanting to be a slave (unowned).

Perhaps someone who views unowned women as being slave can answer your questions, but more then likely i believe they will say that this is earth you cannot adhere every mindset of a Gorean slave to earth society. We have the right to choose and the right to have preferences -- but we are slave damnit. Maybe someone will surprise me.

angel


angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/12/2006 4:19:53 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to sunshine333)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/12/2006 6:08:34 PM   
subiekitty


Posts: 34
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Ok now i finaly get you, i think....

You've never been denying the slave nature, just that perhaps another term is needed than callingoneself an slave if one is unowned. It looked to me like you felt one cannot truly feel it in themselves without being owned at the time. To a degree i suspect you're right as with someone to belong to i feel more whole and alive than without.

What i wonder is where this leaves some people who find someone but discover they may not seek to hold thier ownership of said slave as strongly as the slaves own need to be slave..... This is the situation i fear i may be in... and am at a loss for what to do as i genuinly LOVE Master, love as a person not just the love of being owned.... +


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 9:32:04 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		So what you're saying is that your ownership will only ever be on your terms since you are now free and have your preferences. And where, as you say, you believe a only man with the "strength" to control you will make it so, you're the one who is setting the level of what that "strength" that it is going to take and indeed what that "strength" that is required, truely is. For truely, as I see it, if you really wished to submit to your fire of being a slave, you would've done so by now.

Now just remember that this is all in my opinion. And yes, opinions are like the assholes who make them. They all have one, they all stink.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 9:47:07 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Mr.Discipline44,

Actually i have not said any of what you are stating here.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 10:48:13 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Well, in what I read, you all but come out and say it. This is where I got my take from:
quote:

I am a woman who declares herself an unowned slave as identification purposes, not as material fact. This doesn't make me "a" slave, it means i recognize slave its an identification not a material fact. I am unowned, which means i am not "a" slave. No matter how much i want to be like those women who are owned, who ARE "a" slave, i cannot be until i am owned. why? because i have my autonomy. Those women are in fact experiencing what i am not, ownership. That is a major difference and a major fact of slavery, especially Gorean slavery. Even woman once owned and released are no longer slave. She has her autonomy. Does that mean she doesn't understand slave.. no, but no matter what she is not "a" slave anymore.


quote:

Your questions are partly why i believe a woman can only be "a" slave when she is owned. Until i am owned again, i have my autonomy, which means i have my preferences and my ability to choose. Once owned, i have no autonomy and my Master decides what i do, whom i serve and whom i am at the mercy of -- operative word is Master, not me.

Don't get me wrong, i am not stupid enough to believe that if a Man with the strength to enslave me wishes it to be so it won't happen its why i recognize slave.

What these two statements boil down to is you saying that because you are unowned, you are not a slave and that since you are not a slave you don't have to submit to anyone if you don't choose to. This all points to someone that gives reasons why she won't beg for the collar of a Master.

It seems to me, barely, that you look more at the existential of slavery and not at actually being a slave. You think of being a slave (and what it means) more then you actually want to be a slave. This is something I've seen in many people and I've actually counciled(sp?) a few on it. They talk themselves out of it more then they talk themselves into it.


_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 11:25:03 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Actually, the way you are trying to interpret what i am saying you are wrong. First and foremost you are trying to turn it into a personal analysis of ME. You are taking bits and pieces of many posts and putting your own definitions to them. Perhaps if you go back and read everything as a whole instead of the sentences you will see what i am saying. For example, you said strength to control, i said strength to enslave.... BIG DIFFERENCE HUGE! Especially within the scope of Gorean slavery.

Second, if you realized what i was stating about Gorean slavery you would get what i was saying when i say i have my autonomy and i have my right to choose - its the whole concept of the topic.

i would appreciate your discontinuing the chuckles.. haphazard psychoanalysis of me and perhaps focus on the arguments within without lowering yourself to analysis of the posters and or what they do or don't do in terms of your mindset because it is killing any valid argument you may have within the discussion. If you are uncertain of what the actual discussion is, it is NOT an analysis of me, it is an analysis of autonomy and slave.; can a woman be slave with autonomy etc.



< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/13/2006 11:38:20 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 12:47:53 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Actually, the way you are trying to interpret what i am saying you are wrong. First and foremost you are trying to turn it into a personal analysis of ME. You are taking bits and pieces of many posts and putting your own definitions to them. Perhaps if you go back and read everything as a whole instead of the sentences you will see what i am saying. For example, you said strength to control, i said strength to enslave.... BIG DIFFERENCE HUGE! Especially within the scope of Gorean slavery.

One does not "try to interpret", I am interpreting what you are saying. When you say I'm trying, you are inferring that I'm am failing at doing something. To which, I am not. I am interpreting what you've posted as you posted them. You may differ in your opinion of my interpretation but you're thoughts as to whether they are right or wrong are of no consequence.

I took pieces of two posts, actually, not many as you stated. These two points I quoted showed why I interpreted what I did.

Yes, where I said control, you said enslaved. The big difference is only where you want it to be, not as others may see it. For as I see it, to enslave someone is to be in control of someone.

quote:

Second, if you realized what i was stating about Gorean slavery you would get what i was saying when i say i have my autonomy and i have my right to choose - its the whole concept of the topic.
What I get is that in Gorean slavery, women only have autonomy if men choose for them to have it. That if one chose to, he may enslave a women against her wishes, reguardless of her preferences. But since this is Earth, you say that if you do not have a Master then you are free to do as you wish. That you are not a slave if you do not have a Master. Correct so far*? But a Gorean slave does not seem to be able to idenitify not being a slave, so it seems by the post against your OP. And you can not seem to identify being a slave without having a Master, as your OP and counter-posts indicate. And I'm saying stop thinking in the existential of slavery, for in doing so you merely talk yourself out of becoming that which you say you wish to be.

quote:

i would appreciate your discontinuing the chuckles.. haphazard psychoanalysis of me and perhaps focus on the arguments within without lowering yourself to analysis of the posters and or what they do or don't do in terms of your mindset because it is killing any valid argument you may have within the discussion. If you are uncertain of what the actual discussion is, it is NOT an analysis of me, it is an analysis of autonomy and slave.; can a woman be slave with autonomy etc.
Your blatant disrepect by chuckling shows me that you do not wish to truely hold a converation on an adult level. You wish to be demeaning and I have at least shown you courtesy by talking to you on an adult level. Very well then, but I'll leave you be with this final thought, you lower yourself when you can not repond in the same manner and respect that one addresses you in. In none of my posts to you did I demean or belittle you in anyway. Your actions here are not that of either a Gorean slave or a Gorean woman. I addressed my post directly to you because your OP was of your thoughts, not a hypothetical situation. If you took offence to what I posted, then you merely had to say so. But the fact is that they are my thoughts and whether you like them or not, I am free to post them in a non-inflammatory way, which I did.

* = This was not meant to be sarcastic.





_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 2:37:11 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		My chuckle was in response to your unsolicited psychoanalysis of me. which was directed specifically at me, on a personal level, and is unrelated to the topic at hand. Therefore, i figured you wanted a personal response from me, which you received a chuckle. Once again you are taking something out of context and committing it to the whole (i.e. my chuckle was directly related to your psychoanalysis of me, which is outside the scope of the actual discussion, therefore, my chuckle was and continues to be in response to your comments directed specifically at me in some apparent attempt on your part to give your "expert" opinion of me. Which, i will reiterate is not part of the topic and if i am not mistaken i had said as much in posts at the beginning.

You are correct in that i don't want a conversation with you. I do and did ask for a discussion on the topic and how it relates to Gorean slavery. And i will admit, any meritous argument you had in regards to the actual topic and not your psychoanalysis of me was lost and continues to be lost.

If we could get back to the topic of autonomy and slavery in gorean perspective?
angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/13/2006 2:42:05 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/13/2006 5:55:56 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37442
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Uff da, there is already a Gorean Combat thread herebouts folks, please don't cross-post.


LOL,

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 6:48:24 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

The differing parts that make this clear without need of a specific one line statement was the reason I used the other Topic to begin with. You can not have a mindset of "All females are slaves"..then turn around and state that a female is not a slave unless Owned. I can live with ally's assessment because it makes sense. I can live with Master IronBears statement because it says the same thing without making a direct declaration.

I personally agree with those that feel "All women are slaves". It falls well into my beliefs of the natural order. The real questions from this however are: Will the slave be lucky enough to ever be taught that she is a slave, and feel it? Will she then further be even luckier still and be taken by a Master and allowed to serve in her slavery? At this point would be the determining step to which enslavement either occurs or does not. From what I have read on these forums thus far though (and haven't seen differing debate about as of yet) is that if the slave is not enslaved by the Master..then it has been due to the failure of the Master..not the slave.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



quote:

You can not have a mindset of "All females are slaves"..then turn around and state that a female is not a slave unless Owned.


Starshined i wanted to comment on this last week but it got away from me. I am not sure why you are saying the above quote. Sure you can. You are talking about two different things in the above quote. one is concept and one is actuality. The concept of slavery and the fact that all females are slave is a very viable thought among many. Does that actually make someone a slave? Nope, the FW of Gor is an example of that concept NOT coming to fruitation -- and i believe you are saying that in a sense above. The ownership of a woman makes that concept an actuality.

That is exactly the point i am trying to make. To be a gorean slave the actuality needs to become fruitation or else you are simply a woman who is free, living under the concept of slavery which is what the FW of Gor did -- doesn't mean a woman doesn't mean they don't want to be or feel the ache to be slave, she just isn't owned therefore she is free within the concept of gorean slavery. The actuality is a woman being owned. This very slight but very significant idea in my mind, one that is lost many times within lifestyle discussions regarding Gor and is in fact what seems to make Gorean slavery different from other lifestyle slavery. Gorean slavery is about the actuality -- the actuality, not the concept, is what creates as many are clarifying the process of enslavement, the ownership, the loss of autonomy etc. ... what i have called recognizing slave is simply a concept that is a self-defining idea within the woman who is living the concept therefore she defines it -- the Men define the actuality which is why then a woman is "a" slave.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/14/2006 7:04:29 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 8:13:50 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		when one has felt Gorean slavery and started training as a kajira.....

it does not disappear when there is no longer a collar....

you just become unowned

hoping for a new Master and to maybe get it right this time,lol,

to continue to be slave to, to serve to please....

to feel his mastery in his enslavement and control of you
IMO

yes you may have to do your own thinking till that time comes again but it does not change who you are-slave-

personally i still go by Masters rules

but hey thats just me


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

The differing parts that make this clear without need of a specific one line statement was the reason I used the other Topic to begin with. You can not have a mindset of "All females are slaves"..then turn around and state that a female is not a slave unless Owned. I can live with ally's assessment because it makes sense. I can live with Master IronBears statement because it says the same thing without making a direct declaration.

I personally agree with those that feel "All women are slaves". It falls well into my beliefs of the natural order. The real questions from this however are: Will the slave be lucky enough to ever be taught that she is a slave, and feel it? Will she then further be even luckier still and be taken by a Master and allowed to serve in her slavery? At this point would be the determining step to which enslavement either occurs or does not. From what I have read on these forums thus far though (and haven't seen differing debate about as of yet) is that if the slave is not enslaved by the Master..then it has been due to the failure of the Master..not the slave.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



quote:

You can not have a mindset of "All females are slaves"..then turn around and state that a female is not a slave unless Owned.


Starshined i wanted to comment on this last week but it got away from me. I am not sure why you are saying the above quote. Sure you can. You are talking about two different things in the above quote. one is concept and one is actuality. The concept of slavery and the fact that all females are slave is a very viable thought among many. Does that actually make someone a slave? Nope, the FW of Gor is an example of that concept NOT coming to fruitation -- and i believe you are saying that in a sense above. The ownership of a woman makes that concept an actuality.

That is exactly the point i am trying to make. To be a gorean slave the actuality needs to become fruitation or else you are simply a woman who is free, living under the concept of slavery which is what the FW of Gor did -- doesn't mean a woman doesn't mean they don't want to be or feel the ache to be slave, she just isn't owned therefore she is free within the concept of gorean slavery. The actuality is a woman being owned. This very slight but very significant idea in my mind, one that is lost many times within lifestyle discussions regarding Gor and is in fact what seems to make Gorean slavery different from other lifestyle slavery. Gorean slavery is about the actuality -- the actuality, not the concept, is what creates as many are clarifying the process of enslavement, the ownership, the loss of autonomy etc. ... what i have called recognizing slave is simply a concept that is a self-defining idea within the woman who is living the concept therefore she defines it -- the Men define the actuality which is why then a woman is "a" slave.

angel



_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 10:19:11 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

one is concept and one is actuality.


If your standing before a judge, and you tell him your a slave angel..what do you think his perception of that will be..concept or actual? In truth there is no actual..it is All concept and beliefs.


If you want to completely boil this all down to concept, actual, factual then no one is a Master or a slave in the "actual" that your stating..and by the same token no one could really be a "slave" because we All are subject to moments of autonomy because we have minds and wills. Someone can say that a owned slave with her Owners framework isn't autonomous when she/he disobeys against that framework..but trying to say that just because she/he had framework, and will be punished for such does not negate the fact that she/he used autonomy because they used their free will to make a choice Other than what they were told or expected to do. If someone wants to use that framework as the end all be all then you or anyone else can take and choose Any framework inwhich you have lived your life in adherence to at Any time in your life so far, and as long as you continue to live and exist within that framework in which you chose..then you really are doing nothing more than a slave that has a Owner that comes through the door at night after work or a slave with their Owner at work while they are at home or a slave that is working a outside job and their Owner is not directly in their touch reach. Now someone being a slave in previous (which is what I am basing all this off of and not a completely new person) time and not now..that slave has that framework locked in their heads. They knew how and what to do then and their Owner I am sure was not in their face every moment of the day. Why would a slave cease to be what they were when that particular Owner is not present? To me that just means that they actually learned nothing the entire time inwhich their Owner was present.

You can also say that everyone is a slave by some virtue simply because we all have rules that govern us and must follow to avoid punishment.

I simply disagree with the flat out statement that a person is no longer a slave if they are not Owned and exhibit autonomy in some form or fashion. Everything is nothing more than personal views when it comes to this life.

In the Gorean way..it is what it is..Free or slave. The how or whys really don't matter. Claim one or claim none.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 1:27:54 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I find it hard to believe that any woman who has been enslaved by a Man would say there is no actual and its all a concept. In fact i completely disagree with this.

Which is why i decided to start this thread in relation to Gorean slavery. Also. it seems you are thinking in legal terms of actual vs concept. A judge interprets laws and the Constitution, not Gorean philosophy. If someone walked in and said i am a slave, he wouldn't just grab the gavel and say okay throw the bastard in jail. Especially if the "bastard" could actually prove consent and a differing definition that is not covered by the Constitution. The prosecution would have to prove their case of "slave" and that the actuality violated the Constitional and Civil Rights of the person. A judge doesn't interpret gorean slavery to see what actually is a gorean slave.

As far as your idea of autonomy, i never said she
quote:

exhibit autonomy in some form or fashion
, i have said she has autonomy, in all reality complete personal autonomy, which means she is the governing body in her life, not her Master or the Men she decides to serve or please. Which an unowned slave is in most cases. You speak of framework, yet the framework that is built by the Master with a slave is where the Master is the nails that holds the framework and the slave works within it, she doesn't hold it together. When a Master is gone, so are the nails and then the slave is holding the framework together NOT being within it. How is that Gorean slavery? She becomes the strength that keeps her dynamics going. How is that gorean slavery? Whereas before it was the Man, the Master -- which is Gorean slavery. You are mistaking my statements to indicate that woman who is unowned, forgets slave; i never said that nor implied it....

*Edited for Additional
In fact, on many levels this stripping of autonomy and enslavement can and does in some cases cause a woman NOT to leave a relationship even when she should. ***

Within our government, we don't try and please our government, the government is not the focus of most people's lives. Where as with slaves, their Master's are - not themselves, which is why he can strip them of their autonomy. Which is what i am trying to get across. Men, not women, make the recognition of slave. Men are the deciding factor. If we lived for our government and not for ourselves, then i would agree with you that the government somehow strips us of our personal autonomy.

As i have said before, i see a lot of things in black and white, which is why this was tossed up for discussion, i wanted to see what others who are gorean, who live it and understand it see the connections of gor and how it related and how it all comes together. grins, perhaps i am being too hard on unowned slaves, i do understand recognizing and concept, i just think if you negate the Men, then why even seek enslavement if you can be slave without them?

angel



< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/14/2006 1:50:47 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 3:35:30 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		then why even seek enslavement if you can be slave without them?


Because it's the serving aspect and all that goes with it that is missing.

Saying there is no actual is believing in reality of the world we live in today. Personal beliefs, and feelings are completely different.

It really just is simple. We very much disagree. Not even everyone who feels and states they are Gorean agree. Thats factual and written here.

If there are passages in the Gor books that specifically state that a woman is not a slave unless she is Owned then so be it. I personally do not agree with Everything that is written in the books or take it literal. If it works for you..then okay..your not a slave.

Be well

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 4:56:32 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Actually starshined, i am not taking it literally, your implication of trying to indicate i do, is why i wanted this thread.... there is a concept of gorean slavery, just as there is a concept of Gor period. if i am not mistaken, i have seen both you and your master state time and again you don't live by gorean philosophies so for all intent and purposes i was curious if you were thinking in terms of what you know of Gorean concepts or if you were putting your own beliefs of not living by Gorean philosophies into what you were saying and simply using a personal preference. Its also why i replied to most of your posts. That's why i asked this on a Gorean forum to get the feedback regarding people who contemplate gorean philosophies. i am sorry if you just thought i was asking a general question regards to slavery.

Thank you for your confirmation, regarding me, but i wasn't looking for that from anyone -- lol once again, i am not the actual topic. i have people i can talk to regarding myself. I was looking for why it would be gorean and how it relates to gorean slavery vs general slavery of differing lifestyles and how autonomy in gorean slavery plays a role.

It was a good discussion anyway, as you said, people all have differing opinions regarding interpretations, its why discussion is good. Sometimes you learn something and sometimes you teach and sometimes you just figure things out differently.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 5:10:04 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I personally do not agree with Everything that is written in the books or take it literal
..written by me


i am not taking it literally, your implication of trying to indicate i do..written by you


Only person I see making this a personal issue is you.

"you and your master state time and again you don't live by gorean philosophies"..correction..you have seen us state that we do not claim to be Gorean. Our beliefs and views regarding this life we live very much coincide with many philosophys in the Gor books..however, our beliefs and views were intact and there without influence from the books.


We disagree on what makes a slave. We do agree on you not being a slave because you say you are not and I'll respect how you feel about yourself.

Be well

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 2/14/2006 5:17:02 PM >

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 5:29:08 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

We disagree on what makes a slave. We do agree on you not being a slave because you say you are not and I'll respect how you feel about yourself.

]

funny, i still don't remember my asking if you agree about me at all. In fact, in the post you responded to i said:

quote:

Thank you for your confirmation, regarding me, but i wasn't looking for that from anyone -- lol once again, i am not the actual topic. i have people i can talk to regarding myself.


you must have missed that part, because if you didn't then your continued directing the comments regarding me suddenly in your posts is probably you passively aggressively baiting me lol. I will give you the benefit of the doubt you missed that part of my post instead.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/14/2006 5:31:20 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I appreciate all the comments made by everyone, it was interesting the levels i saw of what everyone is interpretatintg autonomy and slave. This really was a topic i was interested in and the different views from Free and slave alike has made me consider some aspects of what i am thinking as well as confirming others. I look forward to other discussions. i do apologize for getting bitchy in a couple of my responses.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Autonomy and "slave" - 2/15/2006 12:50:52 AM   
unownedredhead


Posts: 498
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: edana

A man takes a slave not only because he wants one... but because the girl kneeling before him, begging his protection, and collar... Needs to be owned.


Tal edana,

Simple elegant and perfect.

dina

_____________________________

Kneeling trembling at your feet

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: Autonomy and "slave" Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2012
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.437