am i on the right track?

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am i on the right track? - 2/11/2006 8:54:56 PM

subiekitty

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/15/2006
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If i may submit an inquiry for consideration.

This may seem a strange question to some but having been told in a couple threads that based on how i have described my situation i am not trully slave and have not trully felt enslavement...

i feel my heat to be that of a natural slave seeking to be fullfilled at the feet of a caring Master, so i will explain myself and my relationship as best i can. Our relationship is in many ways still developing and i hope to in time feel my enslavement with the degree of completeness and certainty that is reflected in the gorean way.

(FYI: i don't define my relationship or myself by outside views as much as i find that outside persepctives can help me find truthes i missed on my own.)

This ones journey to submission was a slow road, with many rough and painfull failures. The most severe being a man i served to for several months before he released me with no warning. The explanation was that he took me to his service because he wanted a slave, and thought he could seperate the desire to develop this from his sexual desire (i am TG and he felt as a person i was girl enough for him but physicly i am soon to be able schedual my surgeries to fix this) but in time found he could not. He was appologetic but it still took me hours to pull myself from the floor from crying.

In the time that first experience lasted i had begun to come alive inside in a way i did not know before i was lacking. The crash after was severe, a worse depression than i had known ever known, i felt i had no purpose or place in the world.

It was durring this time my second Master rose. He worked where i did at the time, and had seen the changes in me. He was bi so was not concerned about my physcial troubles. He however i understood later had no real inclination twards D/s or Gor.

i even had the pleasure of being able to have this Master move in with me. i am not normaly a patient person but i happily waited kneeling at the door for him when he worked on days i did not. It felt satisfying instead of boring, its a change in persepective i never fully understood logicly but enjoyed nontheless. i am not a morning person naturaly, but would wake up mornings early to make him breakfast and was happy about it.

But in time it seemed no matter what i did there was a dark cloude over the relationship, i later he decided to give me the chance to serve him because he wanted to "see the light come back in my eyes" ultimatly he found no matter how hard i tried to please him that it left him hurting because he did not feel comfortable in a possition of such authority and again i was released. In hind sight i know it was a poor choice for me to surrender to these men, but several slow learning experiences prior had shown me a depth of submissive drive within me that each time i found a deeper expression of it it brough a deeper sense of rightness and peace.

(breif digression: strange as this may sound, but there are times when i become tuned in to that part of myself even my own physical awareness of my body changes, i actualy feel like a girl instead of a girl cursed with boy parts. Don't get me wrong they have thier place in the world, that place is definatly NOT attached to my body.)

Again i was crushed and slowly resigned myself to not being able to find the fufillment i craved as much as the breath that sustains me. Then one year at eve-con, i thought i could find one who would have me serve them for the con, at least have that period of feeling whole. i met the one i now serve. We began a little swiftly with Master feeling me out rather intensly to learn how i responded, then slowly settling into a submission with restrictions kind of relationship. As it slowly deepend on a clime twards a more Master/slave angle we hit the stumbling block that is one of the reasons i now fear i may not be all i have come to beleive.

Master was taught by a group (not Gorean) with strong ethical rules. Some of these limited how strongly Master would enforce my enslavement without being absolutely sure it was what i sought. A certaintly i did not yet understand how to express. This came to feel (and i emphasize FEEL intelectulay it was very different but it was hard to see through the feeling) very much like the reluctant Master before he pulled away leaving me again in the cold trying to fake being free when my heart was not built for it.

To this day 4 years later my greatest regret with Master was that i closed off. i lost the ability to feel my own submissive side, i could not surrender no matter how i wanted to feel that again i could not. my slaves heart burried itself so deep inside to protect itself from being broken again.

Master stuck with me, now telling me She saw it in me and had faith it would return. Durring those four years i felt hollow and empty inside, gogin through the motions of life even more mechanicly then any time before. Masters ethics would not allow Her to force it back out of me, even when in certain ways i was not fully aware of i asked for it. At least twice i outright asked Her to but she still would not draw it from me forcefully.

Finaly after years of Master not drawing away finaly my faith grew strong enough for the healing to happen, and my need to serve, and be found pleasing returned.

Now the difficult part is sometimes i feel that Masters hold is not as strong as i feel drawn to, btu at times this is changeing. i am officaly now being trained, and there is discussionof what we both need.

When i feel owned, i feel secure, and cherished.
When i feel Masters guidence, and control i feel sheltered and i soak up the understanding of how to be pleaseing.
When i feel Master pleased with me, i feel like the world is in place.
When i am called slave, it feels like an afirmation.
When i am taken and held close, or bound near my Master, i feel loved and comforted as though Masters pressence is a warm blanket that can keep the bad things in the world outside.

From this i find my greatest fullfillment and joy, but sometimes i feel scarred as though the strength of Masters ownership is not as sollid as i need.

i want to feel myself owned so strongly that i could never escape it if i wanted to.

i want to feel that any failure with be corrected and any lack of being pleasing will be punnished, i dont want to feel that love will spare me from this.

i read the Gor books and sometimes i find myself crying uncontrolled in longing for a place where i could simply be what i feel i am meant to and be neither required nor permited to be otherwise. To be simply Masters cherished slave.....

Am i on track, is this what a Gorean would see as a natural Kajira, or am i short of my chosen mythology. Am i deluding myself completely or simply following a very bumpy journey to my destiny.

Again just something nagging at me, and i hope outside views will help me find the answers to resolve inner turmoil.......

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RE: am i on the right track? - 2/12/2006 10:09:18 AM

GingerleeDREAD

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

am i on the right track?
No subiekitty, and even your self choosen name says such.
First off let Me say that the Alternate Lifestyle of Gor is a Natural Gender based Society and belief. ( John Norman put many things on the counter world not Human and not Gorean but none were crossed gendered. The only thing that were not Gender based were the Prest Kings which had NO GENDER. Go figgure!) On Gor Men are Men and Woman are Woman. Free are Free and slaves are slaves as it is in the books, and this is the first issue I would address here in your words because there are extream differances in BDSM, D/s, M/s, and GOR. Ive noticed many have not posted here basically because its hard for many to face those like yourself who would like to be involved in a Gorean fashion in a Alternate Lifestyle but because of differing conflicts in body and mind not only understanding of the lifestyle but self leaves you outside its concidered * norm.* Now I will give You My opinion in the hopes that this opens up the forums thread to some facts that I feel many here are afraid to address but I have no issue in because I know and understand the realities and differances in all first hand thru My Own Ownership of TG slaves. ( both complete in their transformation from one gender to the next and live in the life they best chose for themselfs. )

quote:

Master before he pulled away leaving me again in the cold trying to fake being free when my heart was not built for it. To this day 4 years later my greatest regret with Master was that i closed off.

In Gor the wording and genders are fixed. There was no confusion in gender ties nor names of roles in R/L ( however in online roleplay there is a small group who accept gender benders). Men were Masters, Woman were Mistresses. slaves are either male or female not crossgendered. In Gor you would be, since not yet completely female in all ways would have to be concidered a male slave if concidered at all. And male slaves are not regarded well in Gor due to they not following the natural Male are Dominant Leaders type of format. ( If you havent read the books of GOR from a males praspective, I suggest you do again and see how you measure up to whats written with in the books. )

quote:

i lost the ability to feel my own submissive side, i could not surrender no matter how i wanted to feel that again i could not

On Gor there are no submissives, no switches who change feelings on a whim. slaves subjudicate completely at all times and as a slave the first and only thoughts in their service daily thru out life is how they can better serve their Owners period. slaves do not dwell or think about what their needs are first nor how things will benifit them selfs. slaves live to serve others in GOR, unlike the slave in BDSM or M/s who will look at how a relationship served themself and reevaluate such relationships a slave in GOR submits one tiime for life in becomming a slave of GOR and once finding an Owner has no need to think about if they are on the right track or not, Thats determined by their Owner.

quote:

This ones journey to submission was a slow road, with many rough and painfull failures. The most severe being a man i served to for several months before he released me with no warning. The explanation was that he took me to his service because he wanted a slave, and thought he could seperate the desire to develop this from his sexual desire (i am TG and he felt as a person i was girl enough for him but physicly i am soon to be able schedual my surgeries to fix this) but in time found he could not. He was appologetic but it still took me hours to pull myself from the floor from crying

This is life kitty in general and not spacific to Gor. There will always be a large group of any given people who will either not accept you as you are for what you are, a even larger group of people who will tempt to accept you for what you are but find it hard to do so and find it better not to address such for what ever fear runs or eludes their choice, or those small group of people who accept what you are, what you go thru and will accept the changed as you do also. ( There are not many in GOR I know who are of this group and after 30 years I can count them on one hand. )

quote:

But in time it seemed no matter what i did there was a dark cloude over the relationship

Again this sounds more like a Alternate Lifestyle not based off of Gor reasonings but more like D/s. There is a differance in a relationship and Ownership. Masters and Mistresses of Gor Own their slaves not have relationships based off of emotions like you discuss in your post.

quote:

Am i on track, is this what a Gorean would see as a natural Kajira,
Yes you are off tract in My opinion because you are not a natural kajira, that position is reserved for woman who were born woman, not altered into woman.

quote:

Am i deluding myself completely or simply following a very bumpy journey to my destiny.

No you are not deluding your self completely only not looking at the picture correctly. As I said reread the Gor books from your natural state of being a male FIRST. and then get a better understanding of how male slaves on GOR were. Then once you have finished all the changes in life see if once these physicall changes are complete re read the GOR books again from a female slaves state and see if your feelings will be the same. I can tell you that no matter what changes you make to your body your mind will never have a Gorean slaves mindset because of whats naturally inside you that I can even see in how you think and write your words here will never differ with the medical changes you are going thru. submissive you will always be, and thats OK. you might even be the perfect submissive to be taken in to be trained into concensual slavery in a M/s lifestyle for life, but I do not see you as having a slaves belly regardless of what gender you are or become based off of your words here. ( My Opinions are just that, My Opinions and they in no way tempt to take away what you feel. )
quote:

Again just something nagging at me, and i hope outside views will help me find the answers to resolve inner turmoil.......

I think the nagging comes in trying to address way to many life issues on your platter right now. How about you take just one at a time from start to finish and once its done proceed to the next issue. Youll find the turmoil lessen with out your plate overfilled and falling on the floor.
Good luck in your transitions, its a long hard road to travel down, but know there is support out here in Our Alternate Worlds.
I do have one request tho, Would you please define the Genders of the differing Masters you are discussing in your post because I know that some in Our Gorean definitions are actuall Mistresses and not Masters if Im not correct in what Im reading?

_____________________________

"My inner children are all mean little fuckers"
"Get inbetween' em and youll get hogtied, hitched up, n hacked"

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RE: am i on the right track? - 2/12/2006 4:14:51 PM

subiekitty

Posts: 34
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It seems your main objection to me is my gender issues.

Yes i have read enough of the books that have a male perspective, 1-3 5-6 and reading 4 now. i can't fuly accept your argument because simply the external male attributes ARE NOT NATURAL TO ME. In truth they sicken me almost to scuicide at times.

Now as for the later section saying i lack the "slaves belly" that seems one of those arguments i can't fully tell. i do feel the yearn to serve and be pleasing. The only differnce i have foudn in it from the Gor books is my response is not gender based, and yes it does bleed into my "normal life".

If this isn't natural to me thought why do the books make me cry?

Cry in longing where even the much better written stuff like the beuty trillogy does not...

anyway thank you for taking time respond though.......

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RE: am i on the right track? - 2/12/2006 10:20:41 PM

ShivaTS

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I feel your pain and live it everyday. How you discription of being whole when you are simply serving and near your master. I too am TS and live outside of the norm. I wanted to belong to a Gor Master because of thier strong will and honor they resinate. They dont need to ask for respect and service, they expect it. (That is my opinion of Gor Masters/Mistresses.) Only last week I confessed my own hell I am living. I still feel the need to service, but have been shown it was due to my lack of self that I needed a Master/Mistress to complete me. Look under "ask a Mistress" forum. My post is "how to work with a damaged sub/slave".

I will submit to servitude but at my choosing and when I do, it will be forever. I think they will need to prove their dominance before I would submit. (Conan vs Red Sonia) I dont think a Gor Master would ever be wiling to fight for the right to take a slave even though in THIS world not all men are Masters and not all free women are Mistresses.

BTW I was born with an overy and was mutilated at birth to conform to the "natural gender". If I grew up a male but was born intersex, (male and female) what am I considered to a gorean?

I reread this post and it I think it came off alittle harse. I ment no disrespect.

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RE: am i on the right track? - 2/12/2006 11:35:37 PM

subiekitty

Posts: 34
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If i may ask is not part of the Gorean philosphy to know ones innertruth, and to live it fully and uncompromising but always with honor?

Also if this is the case would not one such as myself or shiva be living in line with that aspect of it?

If i missed something please tell me i admit to having only gotten the first seven so far, but i cant see how a TG is antithetical to Gor, just that the author probly never stopped to think about it, just as i would be surprised to find references to homosexuality in the books, but its a hard wired part of the people who identify that way. Just as being girl inside is for me.

Is this diffent from the "natural order" sugesting that within all women is the natural responses of a slave and that is only a fortunate few on earth who find it inside themselves on thier own?

Again these are not intended to pick a fight but a serious question, and i doubt i and Shiva are the only TG that ever strugle with beign drawn to Gor.

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