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ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

Any time the perceived "need" replaces actual needs.

Then you'd have to include the need to be loved in your category of destructive addictions, surely?

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
My problem is that your definition of 'addiction' is not an accurate portrayal of addiction. Google the American society of addiction medicine.
Kali
My problem is with everyone who clearly sees my point and nonetheless needs to turn this into highschool debate club over silly semantics.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

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ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

QuixoticErrant
I find your post interesting, especially since this is where I am mentally, emotionally and physically in my life. At this point in my life, I am learning to need to be involved in my own life, more so then another. I am needing to search and discover what it means to be 100% involve with all emotions, sadness, frustration, elation, happiness, and the drive to live through myself. I have never given this concept of living life completely without a partner much thought, because in the past I felt I needed a _____ to feel whole. Now I know this has no truth for me, and doesn't hold any weight in my life. From here I can enjoy all parts of my life, which now is single. There is no need for me to go look for a ______ to fulfill me or me fulfilling their needs. Instead now I offer a different me one who isn't addicted to having someone in my life. One who is not scared to stand alone. One who doesn't think less of herself because she does stand alone. I am manifesting myself now and molding me as I see fit. With this being said, it is a difficult path, since there are not many 'mentors' out there who profess to enjoy not needing a D/s or any other type of relationship.

I am a submissive and I submit all I am to the world daily, be it through my paid job, my writing, art, or sharing experiences with others. There does not need to be a Dominant in my life to make me feel submissive or to be an avenue for me to express it. I can still love, appreciate and honor someone who is in my life as well as those who come into my life, simply because these are all aspects within me. If there is no one, I am still whole.

This is a path that I have been purposely taking this year, and though it is not an easy path, I would never want to avoid it. It has opened me to a greater depth of who lives in my shell-me.

Thank you for creating this post and lending the opportunity for me to put my mental ideas into words.

Thank you so much for writing what you did. It was precisely for someone who feels like you that I wrote this. It is so easy for a dominant to become the focus of his submissive's life in all sorts of ways that she completely negates herself. I am of the school that submission takes stregnth. I am of the school that says it must come from inside her and not be imposed by me.

In a broader context there is such a thing as a deficit mentality. Tha "I am nothing without ____" Perhaps "____" would really make you happy, but you must see that you are still SOMETHING without it.

Even broader than that is the whole definition of destructive addiction. It's really very simple. Ann addiction is destructive if it leads to self destructive behavior. Smoking is a destructive addiction. BDSM becomes a destructive addiction when one starts being self destructive with it, and can not "feel right" doing anything else.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

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ORIGINAL: Kalista07

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What I am proposing in this entry is the notion that the difference between healthy D/s and unhealthy D/s is much like the definition of an addiction. If you want a drink and you enjoy a drink, then by all means... If you NEED a drink, then you are an alcoholic.

My problem is that your definition of 'addiction' is not an accurate portrayal of addiction. Google the American society of addiction medicine.
Kali

My problem is with everyone who clearly sees my point and nonetheless needs to turn this into highschool debate club over silly semantics.

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant

Really, I actually do need oxygen. I am pretty certain I need water and food and shelter too, in reality as well as in perception. The entire point of the thread is the ability to confuse an actual need with a perceived need.

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Really, want a smoke? Are junkies not addicted?

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And the inevitable "I have no personal responsibility to anyone, who are you to suggest I do?" argument... I do get sick of that one

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Needing a person whom you love is perhaps one addiction I will not say is bad.

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ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

You know, this issue of consensual is highly subjective.  Is it consensual when:  a man has an affair, does not practice safe sex.  Does not care enough about himself or his wife to practice safe sex.  Guess what.  The wife is HIV positive now, she has symptoms, has to take a lot of meds - he has no symptoms but they are both positive.  Oh, and they have 2 small children.  Did the wife "consent" to any thing unsafe?  She though it was safe to be sexual with her husband.

Yeah.  Just  some thoughts.  

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ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

You know, this issue of consensual is highly subjective.  Is it consensual when:  a man has an affair, does not practice safe sex.  Does not care enough about himself or his wife to practice safe sex.  Guess what.  The wife is HIV positive now, she has symptoms, has to take a lot of meds - he has no symptoms but they are both positive.  Oh, and they have 2 small children.  Did the wife "consent" to any thing unsafe?  She though it was safe to be sexual with her husband.

Yeah.  Just  some thoughts.  

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ORIGINAL: variation30

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant


When they came for the breath-players,
I remained silent;
I did not enjoy breath-play. Then they locked up the adult babies,
I remained silent;
I was not an adult baby. Then they came for the knife-players,
I did not protest;
I did not enjoy knife play. Then they came for the enema lovers,
I did not speak out;
I did not enjoy enemas. When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.

edit: to be more precise, saying something is 'unhealthy' is fine. most of what we do is technically unhealthy (at least physiologically speaking). I am targeting those who would say 'that's unhealthy, so we should not allow others to do it.'

I was going to address your other points until I saw this. Get a grip. The potential scorn that the vanilla world may or may not have for BDSM does not parallel, come close to, or even begin to be remotely honorable to even mention in the context of those who suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany. This is shallow narcissism at it's worst. It dishonors the dead and it discredits your arguments. Grow up. You are not a persecuted minority. You are an adult with certain sexual preferences. It is nothing more or less than that. You are not being taken away to be murdered for it.

The way that people get so pissy about their kinks is actually a form of the addiction I am talking about. They identify so much of themselves with their kinks, that they can not take anything that even looks like a questioning of kink as anything other than an attack on themselves. This relates directly to what I am saying about self generated worth.

Real self generated worth is an honest affair. If you have a strong sense of self worth then you say, "Hey fine, this is what I like, so what?" There is no need to be defensive - provided you are not hurting anyone else. If you are permanently damaging others, that is another matter. Honestly, liking BDSM is like liking to put caramel on your french fires. Others may not get it, but then again it is hardly evil either. It is also not something that makes you a special persecuted little snowflake.



< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 6/23/2009 5:31:33 PM >

(in reply to variation30)

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ORIGINAL: DomImus

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ORIGINAL: QuixoticErrant
Needing a person whom you love is perhaps one addiction I will not say is bad.

Pfft. According to your post need is bad and want is good. While I agree with virtually none of your OP it was at least consistent until you reached this point where you changed horses in midstream.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I see your point -- I truly do. I think, though, that it is grossly oversimplified, and that some of us just struggle with how to define our desires, and the intensity of them.

I am a dominant individual. I'm that way whether I am dominating another person or not... but the fact is that if I don't -clearly- define relationships that I am in, I will end up turning the relationship into a mobius strip to end up "on top" in the relationship. I don't classify it as a 'need' or a 'want'... it is simply the nature of who I am as a person. It goes right along with my being insatiably self-sufficient, overtly and covertly independent, drawn to intensity, wrapped in chaos, and often ending up as a change-agent. It follows as day does night that, in any given situation, I will twist and shape it until I can wring a path out of it that leads me to my goals.

Am I an "addict"... I don't think so. I just -am- what I -am-... but at the same time, it isn't something I'm going to give up.

Do I -need- a submissive person in my life? Well... it would certainly make it easier on me to be in a relationship where we've already defined that the highway -is- my way! However, I can, and have, survived without it, and I've even had the joy of learning and coping in situations where... holy cannoli... I wasn't even -in charge-... and (havens forfend) even took orders from someone else! (Ok... very badly, but I -did- do it!)

I think that sometimes we want something so badly that the only way that we can really convey the depth of how that thing calls to us is by moving it into the category of 'need'. Sometimes, these things become obsessions, but that isn't necessarily bad. If we abandoned obsession, we wouldn't have electric lights, or automobiles, or artificial hearts... all of those things are products of someone's obsession. We wouldn't have art, or literature, or music -- again... products of someone's obsessions. I think that, perhaps, it is a flaw in the language, not a flaw in the -person- that causes us to drive ourselves to distraction explaining our desires in a way that makes sense.

In the OP example, I wouldn't necessarily think that the subject is -unhealthy-... I would think she is -passionate-, and, perhaps, in need of a set of external brakes... Then again, I find that most people are a little meshugge... and sometimes, it's that intensity that gets them where they want to be when someone with less chutzpah just gives up and settles. they're just struggling to make themselves understood in a world that has no vested interest in understanding them.

Dame Calla