Time Slave (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> Time Slave (6/25/2009 1:58:47 PM)

greetings to the Free
hi girls

so, i am waiting for more of the gor books to come in as that is my summer reading series, among those Master gives me as well. i picked up the Time Slave in a lot of others and started reading it yesterday.

i am so having trouble getting through the first two chapters. i can see why they believed Herjellsen was mad, because his answers and explanations are driving me crazy.

does this get better explained as i go along? i feel that if i dont understand the concepts that are being laid out now, i may not understand further along. and i dislike being lost within a book.

any responses would be much appreciated

well wishes

tazzy



Dinnardin -> RE: Time Slave (6/25/2009 3:18:38 PM)

love, don't forget the font approximately the same size as microfiche....it is like trying to read 300 pages of this.  What, were ink and paper in short supply back in the 70s?

John, AKA Dinnardin



mnottertail -> RE: Time Slave (6/25/2009 5:55:04 PM)

Time, time, time...........see what's become of me?

For every thing: turn, turn, turn; there is a season.......

not knowing the future is common, and if it drives you crazy, don't shake the dice, do everything that you can to insure your future, and still be at the will and whimsy of the gods.

Knute Angurvadel 



daemonskasumi -> RE: Time Slave (6/25/2009 8:03:48 PM)

Hi tazzy,

Don't worry about the little technobabble.  As long as you understand the broad concept, you'll be fine.  The book doesn't deal that much with technobabble after the first few chapters.

You'll make it and most likely, adore it.  :)

kasumi



tazzygirl -> RE: Time Slave (6/25/2009 8:30:52 PM)

hi kasumi

ohhhhhhhhhh thank you. all that talk was giving me a headache.. lol

well wishes

tazzy



Hiskajirah -> RE: Time Slave (6/25/2009 8:50:36 PM)

Greetings tazzy

Time Slave popped this ones bubble.... (okay, it wasn't the first time ~laughs) but was a good read after all.


Warmest wishes,
~twinkle



kiani -> RE: Time Slave (6/26/2009 11:26:58 PM)

Greetings tazzy:

When reading Time Slave this girl had lots of questions. Well at least for this logical thinking girl. (giggle) Anyhow eventually it made sense but lots of patience was needed for this girl to get through reading it. this girl just figured that she'd hang on and be patient because it did pay off pages later. (giggle)

Enjoy tazzy!

she wishes A/all well,
kiani



tazzygirl -> RE: Time Slave (7/2/2009 11:24:09 AM)

greetings Free
hi girls

to those who responded in my moments of confusion over this book... thank you! its definiutely gotten much easier and enjoyable.

well wishes

tazzy



nephandi -> RE: Time Slave (7/5/2009 11:35:50 PM)

Greetings

In my experience whatever a book is good or not depend allot on the person reading it, on his or her preferences. So I can not tell you if Time Slave will get better or not for you. However if a book do not seam good by the first few chapters, especially as relatively short book like Time Slave then usually it never will get good.  I am planing to read this book as I am a real hound for obscure old science fiction, but I do not hold out much hope for it to be a masterpiece to say it like that. Happy reading.

I wish you well



Crell -> RE: Time Slave (7/13/2009 9:07:18 PM)

Honestly, Time Slave is the book that nearly turned me off of Gor and Norman's writing entirely. :-) It makes the same claimed argument as the Gor series does, with the same degree of hyperbole, but because he tries to set it in the "actual" past rather than a fake present it falls flat. The assumptions he's able to get away with to make his point in the Gor series he can't get away with when trying to set the story historically, because archaeological evidence contradicts him. I found it the weakest book of his I've ever read. (Although I've not read the Telinarian series yet... :-) )



tazzygirl -> RE: Time Slave (7/14/2009 7:18:00 AM)

greetings Master Crell

im not sure i understand what you mean, Master. i was taught that early man was seldom monogamous, and that the "society" in which he lived in almost demanded he not be. could you explain further, please?

well wishes

tazzy



nephandi -> RE: Time Slave (7/14/2009 10:55:41 AM)

Greetings

quote:

The assumptions he's able to get away with to make his point in the Gor series he can't get away with when trying to set the story historically, because archaeological evidence contradicts him. I found it the weakest book of his I've ever read. (Although I've not read the Telinarian series yet... :-) )


So you do not approve of fiction that can not be archaeologically or scientifically proved? I mean I doubt I can find Hogwarts at Google Earth that do not mean that Harry Potter is not fun. Time Slave is fantastic literature (Fantastic as in the literary genre a umbrella genre encompassing fantasy, science fiction and horror, and any other fiction that contain supernatural or paranormal elements, like for example fairytales, not as in fantastic as in very good.) It is just as much fiction as the Gor books is, but instead of other planets we have time travel, what is the problem?

quote:

im not sure i understand what you mean, Master. i was taught that early man was seldom monogamous, and that the "society" in which he lived in almost demanded he not be. could you explain further, please?


Not to answer for Crell here but the way I read his post, it is not the poly he objects to, but the conept of a woman being sent back in time, enslaved and then used to breed submisivness into women generally through the ages as a way to save the planet witch might be seen as a little unrealistic.

I wish you well.





Crell -> RE: Time Slave (7/14/2009 10:15:04 PM)

Poly had nothing to do with my issues with Time Slave. My issue is that, as in the Gor series, Norman was trying to make a claim about human nature. In the Gor series, he did so by transplanting humans to another planet, changing the social rules in ways that on even cursory inspection clearly would not be at all stable for more than a generation, and then arguing "see, everyone's happier with this social dynamic" (or one inspired by it). Naturally those of us here think he did at least a decent job in that effort, or else we wouldn't be here and wouldn't call ourselves Gorean, even though we acknowledge the world of Gor as entirely fictional and at best allegorical.

In Time Slave, however, he tries to do so by saying "see, here's how humans *really lived* before that whole agriculture thing screwed us up". Whereas in the Gor series he says "we'd be happier in this alternate setup", in Time Slave he says "we were happier back when we actually *had* this setup". The problem is that the only evidence he provides for us having actually had that social structure "originally" is... that he says so. It's not presented as allegory the way the Gor series is. The only evidence to support his point that he provides is pre-supposing that his point is true. Sorry, I don't buy it.

The social setup he describes is the romanticised vision of the great, big, strong cave man wrestling with tigers and winning and then going home to his fawning woman who cannot survive without him. Archaeological evidence makes it quite clear that humans have grown larger and stronger *since* the development of agriculture and sedentary civilization, not smaller and weaker. So it makes a nice fairy tale or romance novel, but falls flat as an attempt to make a rational argument about human nature.

(SPOILER ALERT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE POST, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)

And the main character is not sent back in time to breed submissiveness into the female of the species; the claim is that it was already there. She was sent back in time to breed the intelligence necessary to figure out how to invent time travel and the desire to develop a space program into the species so that the mad scientist who sends her back would eventually be born. It's a causal paradox, and not a very convincing one at that.



nephandi -> RE: Time Slave (7/15/2009 7:55:28 AM)

Greetings

I think you are reading to much into fiction. Norman wrote both the Gor Saga and Time slave as science fiction, he do not say see this is how things really are, it is fiction. It is like claiming Tolkien said that there really was a giant flaming eye trying to destroy the world, or that Bram Stoker said that there really was vampires running around and that one of those vampires was a former Romanian national hero. Fiction is meant to explore, create and imagine things, that do not mean that one claim it to be real. I have never seen John Norman claim that there really was some damsel in distress sent back in time by a evil scientist and enslaved by cave men. It is fiction, a book, it do not have to be real.

quote:

And the main character is not sent back in time to breed submissiveness into the female of the species; the claim is that it was already there. She was sent back in time to breed the intelligence necessary to figure out how to invent time travel and the desire to develop a space program into the species so that the mad scientist who sends her back would eventually be born. It's a causal paradox, and not a very convincing one at that.


Ok, ok, so I had some plot details wrong, I read allot of science fiction, you will have to forgive me. Anyway the main point is still there, damsel in distress get sent back in time and get enslaved by hunky cave man. Perhaps not the most wonderful plot, but I fail to see the problem with it, it is fiction, nothing more.

I wish you well



Crell -> RE: Time Slave (7/20/2009 8:41:27 PM)

Fiction, yes, but in Norman's case very blatantly as fiction intended to convey an underlying message and philosophical point. Not all fiction is so. Tolkien, for instance, said quite explicitly in the forward to LOTR that he was writing to have fun telling a good story, not to put forth a moral message. Norman, however, was trying to make a philosophical statement using a fictional story as his vehicle. (I would have expected that to be understood by anyone on a Gorean forum, but meh.)

My point is that the fictional vehicle he chose for the Gor series "works". For Time Slave, it does not.



JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Time Slave (7/20/2009 9:02:26 PM)

I have always wondered, if i , a pretty, submissive transsexual girl, were suddenly transported to Gor, what precisely would happen to me .
Giggle
I've done my reading though. Way back in the Day, in the Babylonian temples where there were indeed priestesses who gave of themselves and gave their bodies to all who came in the name of the Mother Goddess, half of them were transsexual "eunuch" priestesses who removed their bits and lived as women.
It was a living ! You got to be female, be pretty and sleep with hot men.



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