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Time Slave - 6/25/2009 1:58:47 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 25871
Joined: 10/12/2007
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greetings to the Free
hi girls

so, i am waiting for more of the gor books to come in as that is my summer reading series, among those Master gives me as well. i picked up the Time Slave in a lot of others and started reading it yesterday.

i am so having trouble getting through the first two chapters. i can see why they believed Herjellsen was mad, because his answers and explanations are driving me crazy.

does this get better explained as i go along? i feel that if i dont understand the concepts that are being laid out now, i may not understand further along. and i dislike being lost within a book.

any responses would be much appreciated

well wishes

tazzy

_____________________________

No body dies a virgin... life fucks everyone.

RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11

"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron

+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!

Duchess of Dissent 1

Post #: 1

RE: Time Slave - 6/25/2009 3:18:38 PM

Dinnardin

Posts: 368
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline

love, don't forget the font approximately the same size as microfiche....it is like trying to read 300 pages of this. What, were ink and paper in short supply back in the 70s?

John, AKA Dinnardin

< Message edited by Dinnardin -- 6/25/2009 3:19:36 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 2

RE: Time Slave - 6/25/2009 5:55:04 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 35791
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Time, time, time...........see what's become of me?

For every thing: turn, turn, turn; there is a season.......

not knowing the future is common, and if it drives you crazy, don't shake the dice, do everything that you can to insure your future, and still be at the will and whimsy of the gods.

Knute Angurvadel

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK

(in reply to Dinnardin)

Post #: 3

RE: Time Slave - 6/25/2009 8:03:48 PM

daemonskasumi

Posts: 40
Joined: 8/16/2008
Status: offline

Hi tazzy,

Don't worry about the little technobabble. As long as you understand the broad concept, you'll be fine. The book doesn't deal that much with technobabble after the first few chapters.

You'll make it and most likely, adore it. :)

kasumi

_____________________________

“True strength lies in submission which permits one to dedicate his life, through devotion, to something beyond himself.” - Henry Miller

kasumi

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 4

RE: Time Slave - 6/25/2009 8:30:52 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 25871
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

hi kasumi

ohhhhhhhhhh thank you. all that talk was giving me a headache.. lol

well wishes

tazzy

_____________________________

No body dies a virgin... life fucks everyone.

RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11

"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron

+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!

Duchess of Dissent 1

(in reply to daemonskasumi)

Post #: 5

RE: Time Slave - 6/25/2009 8:50:36 PM

Hiskajirah

Posts: 929
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline

Greetings tazzy

Time Slave popped this ones bubble.... (okay, it wasn't the first time ~laughs) but was a good read after all.

Warmest wishes,
~twinkle

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 6

RE: Time Slave - 6/26/2009 11:26:58 PM

kiani

Posts: 24
Status: offline

Greetings tazzy:

When reading Time Slave this girl had lots of questions. Well at least for this logical thinking girl. (giggle) Anyhow eventually it made sense but lots of patience was needed for this girl to get through reading it. this girl just figured that she'd hang on and be patient because it did pay off pages later. (giggle)

Enjoy tazzy!

she wishes A/all well,
kiani

(in reply to Hiskajirah)

Post #: 7

RE: Time Slave - 7/2/2009 11:24:09 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 25871
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

greetings Free
hi girls

to those who responded in my moments of confusion over this book... thank you! its definiutely gotten much easier and enjoyable.

well wishes

tazzy

_____________________________

No body dies a virgin... life fucks everyone.

RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11

"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron

+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!

Duchess of Dissent 1

(in reply to kiani)

Post #: 8

RE: Time Slave - 7/5/2009 11:35:50 PM

nephandi

Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Greetings

In my experience whatever a book is good or not depend allot on the person reading it, on his or her preferences. So I can not tell you if Time Slave will get better or not for you. However if a book do not seam good by the first few chapters, especially as relatively short book like Time Slave then usually it never will get good. I am planing to read this book as I am a real hound for obscure old science fiction, but I do not hold out much hope for it to be a masterpiece to say it like that. Happy reading.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 9

RE: Time Slave - 7/13/2009 9:07:18 PM

Crell

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline

Honestly, Time Slave is the book that nearly turned me off of Gor and Norman's writing entirely. :-) It makes the same claimed argument as the Gor series does, with the same degree of hyperbole, but because he tries to set it in the "actual" past rather than a fake present it falls flat. The assumptions he's able to get away with to make his point in the Gor series he can't get away with when trying to set the story historically, because archaeological evidence contradicts him. I found it the weakest book of his I've ever read. (Although I've not read the Telinarian series yet... :-) )

(in reply to nephandi)

Post #: 10

RE: Time Slave - 7/14/2009 7:18:00 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 25871
Joined: 10/12/2007
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greetings Master Crell

im not sure i understand what you mean, Master. i was taught that early man was seldom monogamous, and that the "society" in which he lived in almost demanded he not be. could you explain further, please?

well wishes

tazzy

_____________________________

No body dies a virgin... life fucks everyone.

RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11

"There are no atheists getting blowjobs" ~Master Ron

+20 Heresy Points - Hard earned!

Duchess of Dissent 1

(in reply to Crell)

Post #: 11

RE: Time Slave - 7/14/2009 10:55:41 AM

nephandi

Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Greetings

quote:

The assumptions he's able to get away with to make his point in the Gor series he can't get away with when trying to set the story historically, because archaeological evidence contradicts him. I found it the weakest book of his I've ever read. (Although I've not read the Telinarian series yet... :-) )

So you do not approve of fiction that can not be archaeologically or scientifically proved? I mean I doubt I can find Hogwarts at Google Earth that do not mean that Harry Potter is not fun. Time Slave is fantastic literature (Fantastic as in the literary genre a umbrella genre encompassing fantasy, science fiction and horror, and any other fiction that contain supernatural or paranormal elements, like for example fairytales, not as in fantastic as in very good.) It is just as much fiction as the Gor books is, but instead of other planets we have time travel, what is the problem?

quote:

im not sure i understand what you mean, Master. i was taught that early man was seldom monogamous, and that the "society" in which he lived in almost demanded he not be. could you explain further, please?

Not to answer for Crell here but the way I read his post, it is not the poly he objects to, but the conept of a woman being sent back in time, enslaved and then used to breed submisivness into women generally through the ages as a way to save the planet witch might be seen as a little unrealistic.

I wish you well.

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Time Slave - 7/14/2009 10:15:04 PM

Crell

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline

Poly had nothing to do with my issues with Time Slave. My issue is that, as in the Gor series, Norman was trying to make a claim about human nature. In the Gor series, he did so by transplanting humans to another planet, changing the social rules in ways that on even cursory inspection clearly would not be at all stable for more than a generation, and then arguing "see, everyone's happier with this social dynamic" (or one inspired by it). Naturally those of us here think he did at least a decent job in that effort, or else we wouldn't be here and wouldn't call ourselves Gorean, even though we acknowledge the world of Gor as entirely fictional and at best allegorical.

In Time Slave, however, he tries to do so by saying "see, here's how humans *really lived* before that whole agriculture thing screwed us up". Whereas in the Gor series he says "we'd be happier in this alternate setup", in Time Slave he says "we were happier back when we actually *had* this setup". The problem is that the only evidence he provides for us having actually had that social structure "originally" is... that he says so. It's not presented as allegory the way the Gor series is. The only evidence to support his point that he provides is pre-supposing that his point is true. Sorry, I don't buy it.

The social setup he describes is the romanticised vision of the great, big, strong cave man wrestling with tigers and winning and then going home to his fawning woman who cannot survive without him. Archaeological evidence makes it quite clear that humans have grown larger and stronger *since* the development of agriculture and sedentary civilization, not smaller and weaker. So it makes a nice fairy tale or romance novel, but falls flat as an attempt to make a rational argument about human nature.

(SPOILER ALERT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE POST, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)

And the main character is not sent back in time to breed submissiveness into the female of the species; the claim is that it was already there. She was sent back in time to breed the intelligence necessary to figure out how to invent time travel and the desire to develop a space program into the species so that the mad scientist who sends her back would eventually be born. It's a causal paradox, and not a very convincing one at that.

(in reply to nephandi)

Post #: 13

RE: Time Slave - 7/15/2009 7:55:28 AM

nephandi

Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Greetings

I think you are reading to much into fiction. Norman wrote both the Gor Saga and Time slave as science fiction, he do not say see this is how things really are, it is fiction. It is like claiming Tolkien said that there really was a giant flaming eye trying to destroy the world, or that Bram Stoker said that there really was vampires running around and that one of those vampires was a former Romanian national hero. Fiction is meant to explore, create and imagine things, that do not mean that one claim it to be real. I have never seen John Norman claim that there really was some damsel in distress sent back in time by a evil scientist and enslaved by cave men. It is fiction, a book, it do not have to be real.

quote:

And the main character is not sent back in time to breed submissiveness into the female of the species; the claim is that it was already there. She was sent back in time to breed the intelligence necessary to figure out how to invent time travel and the desire to develop a space program into the species so that the mad scientist who sends her back would eventually be born. It's a causal paradox, and not a very convincing one at that.

Ok, ok, so I had some plot details wrong, I read allot of science fiction, you will have to forgive me. Anyway the main point is still there, damsel in distress get sent back in time and get enslaved by hunky cave man. Perhaps not the most wonderful plot, but I fail to see the problem with it, it is fiction, nothing more.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to Crell)

Post #: 14

RE: Time Slave - 7/20/2009 8:41:27 PM

Crell

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline

Fiction, yes, but in Norman's case very blatantly as fiction intended to convey an underlying message and philosophical point. Not all fiction is so. Tolkien, for instance, said quite explicitly in the forward to LOTR that he was writing to have fun telling a good story, not to put forth a moral message. Norman, however, was trying to make a philosophical statement using a fictional story as his vehicle. (I would have expected that to be understood by anyone on a Gorean forum, but meh.)

My point is that the fictional vehicle he chose for the Gor series "works". For Time Slave, it does not.

(in reply to nephandi)

Post #: 15

RE: Time Slave - 7/20/2009 9:02:26 PM

JuliaGreenleaf

Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline

I have always wondered, if i , a pretty, submissive transsexual girl, were suddenly transported to Gor, what precisely would happen to me .
Giggle
I've done my reading though. Way back in the Day, in the Babylonian temples where there were indeed priestesses who gave of themselves and gave their bodies to all who came in the name of the Mother Goddess, half of them were transsexual "eunuch" priestesses who removed their bits and lived as women.
It was a living ! You got to be female, be pretty and sleep with hot men.

(in reply to Crell)

Post #: 16

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