RE: "Assertive Submissives"???

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RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 4:26:07 PM

sleazybutterfly

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Personally, I submit to one human being..everyone else can kiss my ass, honestly.

Call that what you will. If you ask one person, they will say I am very assertive and I like to take control, if you ask M, he will probably tell you something totally different.

I like to think of myself as a sensational submissive.

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Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to GhostWhoWalks)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 4:29:44 PM

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I like my submissives assertive. I want their thoughts, their opinions, and their willpower used for our mutual benefit.

As our Kitten said, "I may be a kitten...but I am a TIGER kitten." Wouldn't want her any other way.

_____________________________

I use fastreply. Don't take offence where none is meant.

Just because I'm not a bitch doesn't mean I'm not perfectly capable of making sure you'll be very sorry if you disobey.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 4:32:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Could it be that they are just waiting for someone who's dominance makes their cunts wet, their knees weak, and fills their minds with twisted images of dark things they have always refused but suddenly crave?

One man's willful bitch is another man's depraved and faithful slave.

YMMV

Umm...i don't smoke, but i think i'm gonna need a ciggie....*wipes wet spot off chair*

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 5:53:02 PM

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*drool*
lol ok that worked
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Could it be that they are just waiting for someone who's dominance makes their cunts wet, their knees weak, and fills their minds with twisted images of dark things they have always refused but suddenly crave?

One man's willful bitch is another man's depraved and faithful slave.

YMMV

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 6:27:10 PM

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quote:

These days I think it is wise for anyone, maybe even especially certain types who identify as submissives, to learn how to be politely assertive, and trust me lots of submissives are VERY assertive! Of course everything is about context too. The insecure types of Dominant tend to be spooked and frightened by assertive, spirited submissives, but it's been my experience the strongest types of Dominants often prefer them.

The more I read here, the more respect I have for this kind of lifestyle and the more jealous I am of people who have it.

(in reply to EmelineRose)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 6:48:47 PM

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GhostWhoWalks
I had to learn to be assertive in life, and do not feel it takes away one bit of being submissive. I do not beleive the two can not go hand and hand. I am not aggressive, which is different.

I pick my arguments carefully, since this was how I was taught by a terrific person. I try not to speak just to speak. I am a quiet person and prefer to be this way. I though can assertively tell someone they short changed me when I paid for something. I can speak up for myself with confidence. I will not aggressively assult verbally a person.

None of the above takes away from my ability to express my submissiveness, which is not something I turn on and off at a whim.

oceanwynds

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(in reply to GhostWhoWalks)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 8:51:51 PM

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quote:

At first glance, "assertive" and "submissive" appear to be mutually exclusive.

Why?

quote:

Are those people who identify themselves as "assertive submissives" just what they say they are? Or something else?

Some are, some aren’t.

quote:

Could it be, that "assertive submissives" are in fact masochists, and not particularly submissive? People who just want those yummy endorphine and other sensations?

I am a masochist which has absolutely nothing to do with my submission. Our pain play happens when and if they want it. I may ask, but submission means I accept whatever their answer happens to be.

quote:

Could it be, that there is something called a "situational submissive", who is only submissive in specific situations and with specific people?

Yes.

quote:

Does the term, "submissive" carry with it a whole laundry list of assumptions that may or may not be true?

There are many terms that are open to individual interpretation. Even terms outside of the life style; for example, if I live in the country I may consider someone who lives 3 miles away my neighbor; if I live in a small town, I may consider everyone who lives in that town as my neighbor, and if I live in a city, only those in my immediate block or building are my neighbors.

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to GhostWhoWalks)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 10:11:41 PM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR, after skim thru

'Dominant' & 'submissive' are such broad labels to apply, & humans are so diverse.

I have this friend who identified as 'submissive' when she first started getting involved in the out-&-organized kink world. But as she grew & learned about what it is that we do (WIITWD), that label & the assumptions that some dominants brought to the table about that label were chafing her. Currently she calls herself a 'dominant bottom' & is very happy with that identification.

Labels, as broad as they are, can be prisons -- if one allows them to be so . . . . . .

Oh. & in my experience the submissives I've met have been, generally, pretty strong, assertive personalities.

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The Verbossinator

(in reply to catize)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/26/2009 10:35:50 PM

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Being assertive doesn't take away from being submissive. Being a submissive doesn't mean you can't be assertive.   There are so many variations and broad of views of being a submissive, it will be impossible to narrow it down.

If you are assertive and tell the cleaners that they didn't clean your Dom's suits correctly, does that mean that you are no longer submissive?    If you are assertive and tell your um's teacher that you want a conference to figure out why his grades are dropping, does that mean you are no longer submissive?    If you are assertive and tell your Dom that you love the way he holds your tit in his hand when he sleeps, does that mean that you aren't submissive anymore?   Ot when you tell your Dom that you have a problem and need to discuss it with him, does that mean you're not being submissive because you're being assertive and informing him of the problem?

I see all of those instances as being assertive, without being aggressive, bitchy, complaining, running the show or without becoming a "non submissive" person.    I see none of those things having to do with being submissive at all. Submissiveness didn't even enter the equation.

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/27/2009 4:39:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks

At first glance, "assertive" and "submissive" appear to be mutually exclusive.

I don't think so. Being assertive is putting forward your case forward - which is fine by me. Presumably you're going to want to learn from your partner - I'm not so sure it's possible where she's not assertive. You can bring something to the table while respecting the boundaries of authority.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to GhostWhoWalks)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/27/2009 5:15:27 AM

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I assume that a submissive is not a doormat unless told otherwise. So anyone calling themselves an assertive submissive simply reinforces my preconception.

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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 7:11:07 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

Being assertive doesn't take away from being submissive. Being a submissive doesn't mean you can't be assertive.   There are so many variations and broad of views of being a submissive, it will be impossible to narrow it down.

If you are assertive and tell the cleaners that they didn't clean your Dom's suits correctly, does that mean that you are no longer submissive?    If you are assertive and tell your um's teacher that you want a conference to figure out why his grades are dropping, does that mean you are no longer submissive?    If you are assertive and tell your Dom that you love the way he holds your tit in his hand when he sleeps, does that mean that you aren't submissive anymore?   Or when you tell your Dom that you have a problem and need to discuss it with him, does that mean you're not being submissive because you're being assertive and informing him of the problem?

I see all of those instances as being assertive, without being aggressive, bitchy, complaining, running the show or without becoming a "non submissive" person.    I see none of those things having to do with being submissive at all. Submissiveness didn't even enter the equation.

Nicely stated, kallisto, especially the part I have made bold above.
We talk about the need for open and honest communication, ad nauseum and yet in many instances, it seems that what can be the most important communication...that which takes place about a problem...often doesn't occur until you are in the midst of another problem and suddenly, everything comes together and ignites. Why not be assertive and when you sense a problem is looming bring it to your dominant? It can be done without losing the civility and courtesy that, in my dynamic, is called for. In fact, courtesy and civility are more likely to reign at the beginning than after a long build up of not only the original problem but others as well. He/She is not a mindreader and, believe it or not, sometimes one partner can be aware of something that the other is not...but cannot act on it if they do not know. As a matter of fact, the dominant's response to your bringing of the problem will tell you a lot about how they handle issues...with patience and understanding and thought and a change, if need be OR with impatience and dismissal OR with frustration and an attempt to shunt things off without discussion but while attaching the blame for the problem solely to you... and that is not a bad thing to be aware of, is it?

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 6/29/2009 7:13:41 AM >

(in reply to kallisto)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 7:43:55 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks

Does the term, "submissive" carry with it a whole laundry list of assumptions that may or may not be true?
Your thoughts?

Yes. Plenty of assumptions, while mouthing the * everyone is different* It mostly amounts to *WHAT you do is different* .....not WHY you do. People are far more willing to accept the *whats*but often can't get their heads around the **why*.

agirl

(in reply to GhostWhoWalks)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 9:41:48 AM

gentlemanprince

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I am submissive only in the context of a particular relationship. And even in that relationship I am rather assertive. Although I accept that my lady has the final say on things, I same perfectly free to assert my needs/wants and even to tell her that she's wrong on some things. I would liken the relationship to one between a company's CEO and it's president. The CEO has the final call, but the president certainly should not be passive in the relationship.

I don't know how other relationships work, but this seems to be fine for us.

(in reply to kit954)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 10:54:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks

Some people identify themselves as "assertive submissives".
At first glance, "assertive" and "submissive" appear to be mutually exclusive.
Are those people who identify themselves as "assertive submissives" just what they say they are? Or something else?
In general, people are NOT simple. Period.
Could it be, that "assertive submissives" are in fact masochists, and not particularly submissive? People who just want those yummy endorphine and other sensations?
Could it be, that there is something called a "situational submissive", who is only submissive in specific situations and with specific people?
Does the term, "submissive" carry with it a whole laundry list of assumptions that may or may not be true?
Your thoughts?

i have ZERO idea where you would get the idea that being an "s" type isn't compatible with assertion.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to GhostWhoWalks)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 12:19:25 PM

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It is a pretty common misconception among people who believe that submissive equates to doormat. Oddly enough most people who think this way and call themselves dominant rarely consider that they are not dominant in all things. It is like there is a blind spot in the thinking.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhostWhoWalks
At first glance, "assertive" and "submissive" appear to be mutually exclusive.

i have ZERO idea where you would get the idea that being an "s" type isn't compatible with assertion.

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 1:37:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst,
It is a pretty common misconception among people who believe that submissive equates to doormat. Oddly enough most people who think this way and call themselves dominant rarely consider that they are not dominant in all things. It is like there is a blind spot in the thinking.
Kyst

Fair enough, its just a shame that this is a prevailing thought.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 2:20:46 PM

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Not always masochistic. I have found myself having to be a little assertive at times, even though I did not want to be. Some dommes don't always know how to get the ball rolling. They revert to the vanilla posture of reacting to a man's actions instead of initiating things.

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RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 6:40:12 PM

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quote:

I would liken the relationship to one between a company's CEO and it's president. The CEO has the final call, but the president certainly should not be passive in the relationship.

I like that analogy. I always thought of it like taking martial arts. Yes the sensei makes you bow, pushes your limits and causes you pain sometimes but really they're working for you.

(in reply to gentlemanprince)

RE: "Assertive Submissives"??? - 6/29/2009 7:06:30 PM

ChasingOblivion

Posts: 125
Joined: 5/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

Being assertive doesn't take away from being submissive. Being a submissive doesn't mean you can't be assertive.   There are so many variations and broad of views of being a submissive, it will be impossible to narrow it down.

If you are assertive and tell the cleaners that they didn't clean your Dom's suits correctly, does that mean that you are no longer submissive?    If you are assertive and tell your um's teacher that you want a conference to figure out why his grades are dropping, does that mean you are no longer submissive?    If you are assertive and tell your Dom that you love the way he holds your tit in his hand when he sleeps, does that mean that you aren't submissive anymore?   Ot when you tell your Dom that you have a problem and need to discuss it with him, does that mean you're not being submissive because you're being assertive and informing him of the problem?

I see all of those instances as being assertive, without being aggressive, bitchy, complaining, running the show or without becoming a "non submissive" person.    I see none of those things having to do with being submissive at all. Submissiveness didn't even enter the equation.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.
I will also say that in my opinion, being overly passive can make one easy prey for abuse and cruelty. Not everyone who ascribes to a D-type label is a decent human being, and it is important to know one's worth and not be a doormat (I use the term "doormat" in the context of someone who refuses to voice limits and remains in an unhealthy and unhappy relationship out of fear) in any relationship.
There are assholes in every demographic, and in my opinion, assertiveness is a necessary skill for survival that everyone should have regardless of orientation/dynamic/label etc.

(in reply to kallisto)

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