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*Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slave?"


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*Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slave?&q... - 6/27/2009 10:22:02 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline 		Greetings:

Although in part there have been prior discussions regarding "exquisite beauty & absolute obedience", there is not a definition that has been collectively agreed upon and made public knowledge for the masses. ::::: Nor could there be such a definition and if so what would it be as a working definition for everyone who is free? :::::

The preceding question and following questions were a few questions that have come about over the past week in reading and participating in some of the threads here in Gorean Lifestyle Forum.

Question (s) ---

a] What or how is *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*
defined in a slave?

b] Why is the goal *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*
in a slave?"

c] How essential is *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*
in a slave?"

By observation and interaction it is evident that the question "what is *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*in a slave?" --- is not one that is reflective of a collective uniform fixed definition for all who are free to identify with when considering this question.

There are similarities and naturally differences for each one who is free which unquestionably contributes to different defintions and guidelines. This goes without saying as individuality is for each one who is free. While I have my definition to the question; to only post my definition here would be rather redundant to be singularly expressed.

However if there is an interest expressed in this topic then it may be relevant for my definition and guidelines to be disclosed for debate or discussion with others who have a shared interest in the same.

Other views, opinions and the like are welcome from all who are free and would like to post regarding their definition to the question(s) --- "what is *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience* in a slave?" --- OR any of the other questions presented.

Note: If any slaves would like to present what they have come to learn regarding "what is *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience* in a slave?" --- OR any of the other questions presented through their serving a gorean free man or free woman then their view is most welcome.

I wish you well,

~ Zevar ~

< Message edited by Zevar -- 6/27/2009 10:24:50 PM >

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 7:12:44 AM   
Laraa


Posts: 10
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Just my two cents worth....

To me when a girl strives for or is walking in "absolute obedience" she is exquisitely beautiful....

The beauty does not lie in the skin deep but radiates from deep within and is expressed through her obedience.....in her total surrender.....in her giving of herself freely....

I am sure there are others here that can express it more fully....just my few cents worth...

I wish everyone a great day.....peace and prosperity......

Laraa



(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 9:33:43 AM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline 		What i have come to learn about absolute obedience and exquisite beauty is that absolute obedience comes from a heart of devotion, and exquisite beauty comes when the mind and heart are at peace with that devotion.   Without peace... it is impossible to be exquisitely beautiful, regardless of how absolutely obedient you are.

~sgs


_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to Laraa)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 10:12:02 AM   
Trevelyan


Posts: 528
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Mountain View, CA
Status: offline 		Here are my two cents:

The phrase "exquisite beauty and absolute obedience" appears once in the 27 novels. It is a popular phrase among those who choose to learn about Gor from websites and chatrooms, as opposed to reading the books.

The books talk far more frequently, although less succinctly, about slaves being obedient and pleasing.

The two qualities together make her valuable.

The two qualities are also relatively easy to agree on.

Even a chat room Gorean can tell if a slave is obedient or not. If she is told to do something, and she obeys, she is obedient.

Being pleasing is subjective, based on the preferences of the owner of the slave. A big part of training a slave consists of increasing her ability to be pleasing. Effective training improves both her skill at doing a task, and the passion with which she does it. This certainly includes sexual abilities, but can extend to many other areas such as cooking, cleaning, dancing, etc.

There are certain common practices that go toward making a slave pleasing, for example properly addressing free men and women, or keeping her body attractive through diet and exercise. And of course, a girl who is highly sexually responsive is pleasing.

The more obedient and pleasing a slave is, the more valuable she is.

I wish you well,

Trevelyan

< Message edited by Trevelyan -- 6/28/2009 10:16:11 AM >

_____________________________

"In short the differences between the men of Earth and those of Gor were almost certain to be primarily cultural, and not physiological."
Mercenaries of Gor

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 12:39:53 PM   
toture


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/8/2009
Status: offline 		  Camisk: slit fully on both side with a slit for the head, worn poncho style the cloth is held in place with a cord tied tightly about the waist. The hem coming barely beneath the groin and bottom so that the slave flesh is fully available at all times. A variation is the turian camisk. This camisk is worn by slaves in the city-state of Turia; it consists of a piece of cloth shaped like an inverted 'T' with a beveled crossbar; it fastens behind the neck and falls before the wearer's body; the crossbar then passes between her legs and is then brought forward snugly at the hips; it is held in place by a single cord that binds it at the back of the neck, behind the back, and in front at the waist   Chalwar: baggy pants of diaphanous silk, worn by slave girls of the Tahari; similar to the harem pants of Earth   Pleasure silks: sheer, clingy form of silk worn only by slave girls; wraps like a sarong, with a disrobing loop at the left shoulder.   Slave Veil: a small triangle of diaphanous yellow silk, worn across the bridge of the nose and covering the lower half of the face; it parodies the heavy veils worn by free women, as it conceals nothing and often arouses the lust of masters. It is often worn with the chalwar.   Ta-teera: a simple cloth, a one piece, sleeveless, short slave garment; also called the slave rag.   Talmit: a headband   Footwear: shoes or sandals are never giving to a slave. They are kept barefoot, occasionally cords are wrapped decoratively about the ankles and calves.

(in reply to Trevelyan)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 3:11:05 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1564
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		{Fast Reply}

Tal and greetings all.....

Trevelyan got to the point I was going to make before I did. It is a nice phrase that has been picked up by the players because it sounds so good and the slaves because it sounds so romantic.

Some of you know that I have had, for many years, on my .sig line the phrase, "The goal is beauty." That phrase is partially connected to that phrase but more connected to the much more frequent comments (and no I haven't counted them) about how a woman becomes more beautiful the deeper into submission and slavery she goes. The two are connected. Over the years I have noticed that comment of Norman's in action. The more submissive and happy she is in her submission, the more she appeals not only to me but to other dominant men. I know of a number of cases where a women who is in a dangerous situation who assumes a submissive posture is the one whom men vie to protect. Yes, some women neither need nor want that protection. Some do either falsely appearing helpless or submissive to control men or because they want to please men and have partly learned and partly know instinctively that being that way pleases men.

As for the obedience part, yes, slaves are to be obedient...or else. That is the easy part.

And on a final note....for a slightly painful laugh read Toture's profile. The meaningless post above fits. <grins>

Be well all....

Malkinius


_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is beauty.

(in reply to toture)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 8:46:15 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline 		My 2 pence worth;

Considering the definition for exquisite as in being proficient or accomplished as a result of practice or training; a girl can demonstrate a form of being exquisite when she obediently acts out what she has been trained to learn to be pleasing to the owner of her. In doing so therefore proving to be have trained to be pleasing to her master who deems what is pleasing in her manners, speech, service, chores, duties, dance, etc, etc..

Regarding sexual service of a slave girl it is not uncommon for many who own a girl to claim she is thus capable of demonstrating her ability to obey and please by her acting out her nature to be sexually pleasing. Not that this cannot be true, it can. Obviously though this too is subjective to the owner of the girl. Clearly it requires a girl who is truly desirous of being trained before anything remotely reflective of any definition related to exquisite, obedient or pleasing can be demonstrated through the action of a girl.

Honestly speaking IMO for a girl to address any free as master or mistress because of protocol is meaningless. Not that protocol does not have a place, it does. The point being if a girl does not have in her heart a true desire to serve in obedience and beauty which is pleasing and unable to go un-noticed by whomsoever would witness such a girl then all of the training cannot change a heart as such. Not that training cannot change a heart it can in a girl who is desirous of service and only service else she will perish.

There are as myself obviously very many other strong men who are quite skilled in their mastery and capable of demonstrating their ability to train who they choose to train. This is not an issue. The true issue in being able to define what is exquisite beauty and absolute obedience in a slave girl is for most free, I would assume, is not something lacking a concrete meaning. The problems arise when the definition is translated in training a slave girl who could be more likened in her personality as having the trait of rebellion as her seeming second nature. The ongoing requirements to refine the definition of exquisite or pleasing beauty and absolute obedience in his property is indeed the responsibility and workings of a owner who has not so much defined such in a manner which is able to be put into words so much as it is able to be translated and integrated into the heart, mind, soul and body of his property i.e. slave girl. Which is reflected in the actions and manners of a girl who has been trained to demonstrate exquisite beauty and absolute obedience, however subjective, and to be pleasing her owner and to the free.

Further it could be said that it is in the doing that proves the theory of exquisite beauty & absolute obedience in a slave girl to be more than words. However to prove such one needs participants who are not mere “ pick me or pick” kind of girl(s) yet a girl(s) that has/have a calm inner beauty that speaks volumes amidst her silence where she naturally desires to serve over be served.

Does this exist or not, the possibility to achieve exquisite beauty & absolute obedience in a slave girl ? Philosophically speaking by the books it did in the writings of JN on Gor. On Earth the translating of JN’s philosophy is not transferable for all who are free while for some there is a closer resemblance of such and in fact done naturally. In other instances it is merely natural desires that have been so squelched that there is barely an audible sound of the natural order within let alone a glimpse into what is innately natural and unaffected by external societal barriers that have embellished denial of the natural order as good and correct.

Obedience is easier to agree upon for a definition as it is "do as directed obediently" or else pay the consequences. However speaking of beauty;

"Beauty in things exists merely in the mind which contemplates them."
David Hume

Thanks to all who commented.

I wish you well,

~ Zevar ~

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/28/2009 9:32:05 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

What i have come to learn about absolute obedience and exquisite beauty is that absolute obedience comes from a heart of devotion, and exquisite beauty comes when the mind and heart are at peace with that devotion.   Without peace... it is impossible to be exquisitely beautiful, regardless of how absolutely obedient you are.
~sgs



Greetings ~sgs:

Explain more on the highlighted or rather bolded section of the words quoted above. Moreover the part about " Without peace..." is what I am seeking to better understand what you are specifically referring to etc..

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/29/2009 12:46:07 AM   
onlyfreelycaged


Posts: 234
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		hi..

I'm not Gor (I need to learn how to keep my foot out of my mouth, I know.), but I was skimming through the boards, and this one caught my attention.

I think the peace being refereed to is the ability to just be one's self, to be calm.. even temmpored, not overly chatty..

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/29/2009 7:32:26 AM   
edana


Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings

I believe that peace comes when you have accepted your place, whatever that may be, as the best place for you.  Not a lesser place, becasue you could not handle being elsewhere, but a better place, and a place where you will grow and prosper... your place.     I cannot speak for those hear, but coming to accept that has been and still is the hardest part of this for me, and it is also the key to all other things,

Including obedience and beauty... 

edana  

_____________________________

In service,

edana

"Discipline turns talent into ability"

(in reply to onlyfreelycaged)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/29/2009 10:14:35 AM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

What i have come to learn about absolute obedience and exquisite beauty is that absolute obedience comes from a heart of devotion, and exquisite beauty comes when the mind and heart are at peace with that devotion.   Without peace... it is impossible to be exquisitely beautiful, regardless of how absolutely obedient you are.
~sgs



This is a little difficult to put into words, but i think it is two-fold.   Peace, for me, meaning... i am serving a Master i truly trust with my life... who has his own best interest at heart, but in doing so... he also has mine.   This trust is very hard

Greetings ~sgs:

Explain more on the highlighted or rather bolded section of the words quoted above. Moreover the part about " Without peace..." is what I am seeking to better understand what you are specifically referring to etc..

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~


This is a little difficult to put into words, but i think it is three-fold.   Peace, for me, meaning... when not only my heart is devoted, but my mind knows for certain that i am serving a Master whom i can truly trust with my life... who has his own best interest at heart, but in doing so... i know he also has mine.   This trust is very hard to establish in a world where so many people are really out purely for themselves, and will use a submissive, service-oriented creature to further their own goals and then throw her by the wayside when he/she has gotten what he/she wants from her.    The hard thing also sometimes, is that what seems to be purely a hurtful act may, once the emotional roller-coaster ride ends, actually demonstrates that the Master did have your best interest at heart... but then sometimes, by the time you come to understand all of this, it is too late. 

Besides having peace in the sense that your Master truly has your best interest at heart, is also having a sense of peace that he is indeed the Master for you, regarding the quality of his character overall (not just in relation to you, as his slave). This peace, i believe, only comes in a great deal of time, watching how the man handles his affairs, how he holds himself to a level of honor, integrity, etc.   How he handles himself... (self-mastery), etc.    How he handles adversity. The level of pure, honest self assessment... is he 'faking it til he makes it'... or has he made it... etc. (To coin a phrase Malkinius used on another thread recently).   Personally, i might be able to be the slave of a man who is currently faking it, but well on the way to making it... but at the same time, i wouldn't have the 'peace' to be his exquisitely beautiful slave until he had, in fact, made it.  *smiles*

And then, besides the above, ... to recap, knowing he has my best interest at heart (meaning truly, i am better off putting my life into his hands than i am entrusting myself with it), and knowing that he is truly a 'Gorean' man and therefore meets the expectations i would have of him because he is Gorean, the other thing is along the lines of what edana just mentioned above... i am at peace knowing that serving as his helpless, loving, devoted slave is in fact, the best place for me to grow and flourish as the best me i could ever be... my truest, purest, most fulfilled, joyous and according to Maslow's hierarchy 'self-actualized' self... that i am actually self-actualized as a slave to him.

That kind of peace, i think, is what actually creates the purest, most exquisite beauty, and that kind of beauty, i have only seen in one woman in my lifetime. 

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/29/2009 8:43:34 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Variations on this theme are mentioned in a number of different places in the books.  I don't think edana could tell you, in the last 5 years, how many times she has been asked "what is the duty of a slave girl?".  Usually, when she requires reminding for one reason or another.  Often, when her ass cheeks are about to recieve a reminder of their own.

Duty.  What a slave girl owes her master.  Absolute obedience.  Perfect obedience.   Why is that the duty of a slave?  A collared slave has submitted herself and become human property.  Unless she is possessed of less common sense than I would be willing to accept in a slave, she presumably did so because she believes that she is more suited to being property, and under someone else's discipline, than being free, and under her own.  When she begs the collar, she takes the duty of absolute obedience on board.  Only through absolute, perfect obedience, even when, and especially when, she'd do differently if it were up to her will she benefit from the discipline she sought in the first place, and become what her master would have her become, i.e. a girl he will value and keep.

Beauty, exquisite beauty if you prefer (and if your standards are actually high).  To be pleasing.  Why are these the duty of a slave?  We are talking about a female slave here, are we not?  Why else would a man keep one other than to make his household a more beautiful and pleasant place to be?  It extends to everything.  How she moves, speaks, presents herself, presents a meal, presents everyday objects, arranges a room.  If there is a beautiful way, and a coarse, common, or mundane way, clearly, the duty of a Gorean slave girl is to choose the former.  If a man expects less, or accepts less, clearly, less is what he will get, usually.  Slaves are expensive to keep both in terms of time and money, usually.  Why a man would take one and then accept a girl that is something less than beautiful and pleasing is mysterious to me.

I guess there was a time, a long time ago, when these things seemed extrordinary to me.  They don't now.  This is every day common sense to a Gorean.  I'd say it goes without saying, but obviously, it doesn't.




< Message edited by Leonidas -- 6/29/2009 8:47:26 PM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/30/2009 3:13:46 PM   
serisa


Posts: 219
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Zevar, and hope you are well -

i have not completed my reading of all the Gor series as yet, however i do believe Absolute Obedience speaks for itself in that it is what any Master would expect from his slave without question.  i think the only time a slave would not reasonably show absolute obediance if it was perhaps a matter so important to her and her wellbeing that she would be willing to risk release for.

As for beauty, i think it is very much like the vanilla world in the respect that beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder... or in this case the Master, what one Master finds attractive another may not.  It is up to the Master in question as to if he considers her beautiful enough to be his slave... in some cases beauty may not be the deciding factor, perhaps there may be some other aspect of her which to him, makes her especially appealing.

I would say though, that no matter how 'beautiful'a slave may or may not be i expect for most Masters at least?, that they would expect their slaves to make the most of whatever 'beauty' they have.  This could include, keeping their hair in a style which Master prefers, dressing in a way which pleases him or make up which suits his tastes.  Anything at all really, that would make Master proud that you belong to him... and that you try your best always to present yourself visually in a way that you know Master will find pleasing.

It could also be just not about the way you look directly but the way you carry youself... the grace with which you walk... the effort you put into your dance for him, or the practice to which makes hopefully perfect - the positions you practice to please him.  i think perhaps all these things could be described as 'beauty'... and perhaps for a Master - or some at least, that it runs a fair bit deeper than simply the 'looks' that God has blessed a girl with ?

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/30/2009 6:02:13 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

What i have come to learn about absolute obedience and exquisite beauty is that absolute obedience comes from a heart of devotion, and exquisite beauty comes when the mind and heart are at peace with that devotion.   Without peace... it is impossible to be exquisitely beautiful, regardless of how absolutely obedient you are.
~sgs



This is a little difficult to put into words, but i think it is two-fold.   Peace, for me, meaning... i am serving a Master i truly trust with my life... who has his own best interest at heart, but in doing so... he also has mine.   This trust is very hard

Greetings ~sgs:

Explain more on the highlighted or rather bolded section of the words quoted above. Moreover the part about " Without peace..." is what I am seeking to better understand what you are specifically referring to etc..

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~


This is a little difficult to put into words, but i think it is three-fold.   Peace, for me, meaning... when not only my heart is devoted, but my mind knows for certain that i am serving a Master whom i can truly trust with my life... who has his own best interest at heart, but in doing so... i know he also has mine.   This trust is very hard to establish in a world where so many people are really out purely for themselves, and will use a submissive, service-oriented creature to further their own goals and then throw her by the wayside when he/she has gotten what he/she wants from her.    The hard thing also sometimes, is that what seems to be purely a hurtful act may, once the emotional roller-coaster ride ends, actually demonstrates that the Master did have your best interest at heart... but then sometimes, by the time you come to understand all of this, it is too late. 

Besides having peace in the sense that your Master truly has your best interest at heart, is also having a sense of peace that he is indeed the Master for you, regarding the quality of his character overall (not just in relation to you, as his slave). This peace, i believe, only comes in a great deal of time, watching how the man handles his affairs, how he holds himself to a level of honor, integrity, etc.   How he handles himself... (self-mastery), etc.    How he handles adversity. The level of pure, honest self assessment... is he 'faking it til he makes it'... or has he made it... etc. (To coin a phrase Malkinius used on another thread recently).   Personally, i might be able to be the slave of a man who is currently faking it, but well on the way to making it... but at the same time, i wouldn't have the 'peace' to be his exquisitely beautiful slave until he had, in fact, made it.  *smiles*

And then, besides the above, ... to recap, knowing he has my best interest at heart (meaning truly, i am better off putting my life into his hands than i am entrusting myself with it), and knowing that he is truly a 'Gorean' man and therefore meets the expectations i would have of him because he is Gorean, the other thing is along the lines of what edana just mentioned above... i am at peace knowing that serving as his helpless, loving, devoted slave is in fact, the best place for me to grow and flourish as the best me i could ever be... my truest, purest, most fulfilled, joyous and according to Maslow's hierarchy 'self-actualized' self... that i am actually self-actualized as a slave to him.

That kind of peace, i think, is what actually creates the purest, most exquisite beauty, and that kind of beauty, i have only seen in one woman in my lifetime. 

~sgs



Greetings ~sgs:

In being able to finally log online I have read your reply as well as others. I will now address what I think is relevant in my reply to you.

For obvious reasons every girl needs to feel a sense of peace from knowing without a doubt that the man/master she serves provides for her security, safety, sound guidance and an environment in his presence to feel serene in her service to him. I agree this is essential to build bonds of trust. This is all however subject to of course the human element. The translation of these attributes do not always translate in a way that might appear as what they truly are at their foundation and in some instances they are viewed and accepted for what they are, depending on the girl. Each girl is different and her perception does and will play a role in her interpretation of how the man/master whom she serves demonstrates and provides security, safety, sound guidance toward her.

For a girl to base her inner peace on external conditions tends to lend itself to being subjected to every "wind of change." More than likely if she practices this sort of “double minded” thinking she will find herself reacting in ways that will reinforce a need to be disciplined in some form. Which when a girl is disciplined for one reason or another this can result in all sorts of misinterpretations that usually fog the view of what is actually in her best interest as deemed so by the owner of her. When she does not have her internal issues sorted from the present day issues she will find her way with much more of a daily struggle [internally].

Keep in mind that suspicious or basic non-trustworthy thoughts as "so and so did something that I will not forget or ever trust again" kind of thinking cannot produce an internal environment whereby a girl then thrives under the guidance of a man/master. Reluctantly building trustworthiness results in a form of "expecting and looking for the bird to not fly" sort of attitude which does not nourish an environment where trust building can be fostered and increase.

Letting go of the past experiences that hinder the natural ability to form bonds of trust is essential for anyone to find what might be termed, "peace." Without letting go of that which prevents one from experiencing an internal sense of "All is well and Peaceful" within will never result from expecting external sources or a man/master to "magically" produce what is not his obligation to produce. True peace comes from within when who one naturally is congruently reflects with how one lives.

Thank you for your comments and for continuing to post. Exchanging thoughts can be productive when accepted as such or they can be seen as that which they are not only if we choose to deny what is productive and for our highest good and welfare.

“Hold your face to the Light even for the moment that you do not see it. For in doing so the face of beauty within is revealed”

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/30/2009 6:35:41 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: edana

Greetings

I believe that peace comes when you have accepted your place, whatever that may be, as the best place for you.  Not a lesser place, becasue you could not handle being elsewhere, but a better place, and a place where you will grow and prosper... your place.     I cannot speak for those hear, but coming to accept that has been and still is the hardest part of this for me, and it is also the key to all other things,

Including obedience and beauty... 

edana  



Greetings edana:

In reading your reply it appears as though you have a good understanding of what it means to “serve.” As far as beauty and obedience it is also evident in your reply that you possess in thought and in reality [real day to day serving a man/master] what is the essence of both expressions, beauty and obedience. With acceptance peace tends to converge.

My honor to your owner.


I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/30/2009 7:27:16 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline 		FR:

This is my final thanks to those who commented after my original acknowledgments to others who commented. Naturally I agree with the other free and their comments without reserve on some points. I can agree with protocol and the goal of it yet know that some girls will not adhere to protocol while some do. Regardless it is the preference of the man to do as he deems so with what is his. Overall there are some things that a girl can do in a public manner in serving etc. that can be agreed on among the free, in my experience. However there are some things that are not agreeable among the free when it comes to a girl with what is deemed obedient or beauty on a collective level. IMO

The goal of this thread in part was to determine if there is a definition that the free can agree on when it comes to defining what is exquisite beauty and absolute obedience in a slave girl?

Note: I presented this topic in the form a question. Not because it is rocket science and complex to the degree that it is in need of discussion in order to form an opinion. No, instead it is due in part to the reason stated which was to not only determine if there is an agreed upon definition of “what is exquisite beauty and absolute obedience in a slave girl?” among the free, but also to demonstrate that the definition is merely subjective.

There is no definitive answer to the question. There are shared meanings and such yet the question “what is exquisite beauty and absolute obedience in a slave girl?” is answerable by each man/master in the way that he finds pleasing.

The points others made are reasonable and agreeable yet subjective overall. Yes there are certain qualities in a slave that are agreeable on a collective level among the free, however it is in the end the man/master who determines what is exquisitely beautiful and absolutely obedient in his owned girl.

Yes simple math to some. Yet no reason to not expand on that which is basic, for some at least. Discussion is one method to arrive at an expanded meaning by building on what is central to defining what is essential for some.

How else could an owned girl be deemed unquestionably “exquisitely {ie: pleasing} beautiful and absolutely obedient” if not by the owner of her, while she in service to him?

I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~



< Message edited by Zevar -- 6/30/2009 7:36:34 PM >

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/30/2009 8:14:06 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: serisa

Greetings Master Zevar, and hope you are well -

i have not completed my reading of all the Gor series as yet, however i do believe Absolute Obedience speaks for itself in that it is what any Master would expect from his slave without question.  i think the only time a slave would not reasonably show absolute obediance if it was perhaps a matter so important to her and her wellbeing that she would be willing to risk release for.

As for beauty, i think it is very much like the vanilla world in the respect that beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder... or in this case the Master, what one Master finds attractive another may not.  It is up to the Master in question as to if he considers her beautiful enough to be his slave... in some cases beauty may not be the deciding factor, perhaps there may be some other aspect of her which to him, makes her especially appealing.

I would say though, that no matter how 'beautiful'a slave may or may not be i expect for most Masters at least?, that they would expect their slaves to make the most of whatever 'beauty' they have.  This could include, keeping their hair in a style which Master prefers, dressing in a way which pleases him or make up which suits his tastes.  Anything at all really, that would make Master proud that you belong to him... and that you try your best always to present yourself visually in a way that you know Master will find pleasing.

It could also be just not about the way you look directly but the way you carry youself... the grace with which you walk... the effort you put into your dance for him, or the practice to which makes hopefully perfect - the positions you practice to please him.  i think perhaps all these things could be described as 'beauty'... and perhaps for a Master - or some at least, that it runs a fair bit deeper than simply the 'looks' that God has blessed a girl with ?






Greetings serisa:

I wanted to take a moment to reply to your post. I would definitely disagree with any notion that physical beauty is of more value than beauty that is overall a beauty which comes from within and is in balance with the whole girl and not just her physical appearance.

While there are some girls who have a certain look that is appealing on a physical level that does not necessarily mean that she has some kind of internal mechanism to serve in a manner which will be deemed to be obedient and in beauty. [I speak from experience.]

However the opposite could be true also that she may have some internal mechanism that allows her to serve in a manner that is pleasing to the free with her obedience and beauty. I am of the thought after having had to deal with my appearance of what is considered in society to be “handsome or good looking” for years now, that which is surface only is without meaning when not balanced wholly. I have had many who wanted to supposedly "serve" me or "get to know" me simply due to my looks. I do not put my photo here due to this. I do not care to have someone who is merely looking for what is deemed “handsome or good looking” and then claim to be able to “serve" me. This sort of thought is meaningless and of no value.

My point is that the beauty I am speaking of is not solely in the features of a girl and her hair, or facial features or hips, legs, bosom, thighs, eyes, lips, or any other body parts per se yet her ability to be poised in the midst of demands and commands and to serve with a sense of beauty like that of the grace in the movements of a swan on a summer eve. I am not trying to sound foolishly romantic. I am so far from that sort of nonsense. My point in using this analogy of a swan is because it represents beauty and poise to me. This poise I speak of is far more beautiful than a girl who flaunts her physical beauty in a manner that is like an "energy overflow that short circuits" when given guidance.

Obedience can be expressed in many forms. I did not mean that the obedience is only expressed from what she has been taught yet also from that which she comes to understand is her rightful duty to perform thus she does so in a calm poised manner that it is as if her obedience is melded into her beauty that she walks in. Much like the wind is to the air. Or rather the ocean is to the wave it seems. But then that is just another opinion of this man.

Thanks for your input serisa.


I wish you well,
~ Zevar ~

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to serisa)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 6/30/2009 10:10:03 PM   
Nephilim


Posts: 143
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not sure where that phrase is or why there is question about it.  If you are asking what it means in a passage in one of the books, it is usually very clear with a bit of context.

Most of the books I have read so far refer to beauty simply as physical beauty.  Which is whatever the master finds superficially appealing.  Unless used as a "beautiful slave" which may be the narrators reaction to the obvious submission (and love) of the slave given to her master (which seems often to be reciprocated).  That just seems like a phrase that the author sort of echoes to make the point of noticing the slave.

I think that so, far in my reading, the books don't think that complete submission is the only objective.  Instead in each woman there is both a slave and a ubara but in our world, it is rare that a woman can explore the roles and without slavery they cannot submit themselves entirely.  Absolute obedience doesn't seem to be a trait that is the most desirable on Gor.  In fact, the Goreans are said to prefer a free woman who is of high caste to submit and learn her slavery.  Also, those that sell best on the block are those who move as a slave and respond well to the slavers whip.  That is even more important than being superficially beautiful.  Especially, since, on Gor, many of the women are extremely attractive.

The books say that, like someone previous said, it is simply the role of the slave to please the master.  Also, since physical beauty is subjective, that is also simply part of pleasing the master.  They may please their master with blind obedience or not.

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 7/1/2009 1:30:37 AM   
Zevar


Posts: 786
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nephilim

I'm not sure where that phrase is or why there is question about it.  If you are asking what it means in a passage in one of the books, it is usually very clear with a bit of context.

Most of the books I have read so far refer to beauty simply as physical beauty.  Which is whatever the master finds superficially appealing.  Unless used as a "beautiful slave" which may be the narrators reaction to the obvious submission (and love) of the slave given to her master (which seems often to be reciprocated).  That just seems like a phrase that the author sort of echoes to make the point of noticing the slave.

I think that so, far in my reading, the books don't think that complete submission is the only objective.  Instead in each woman there is both a slave and a ubara but in our world, it is rare that a woman can explore the roles and without slavery they cannot submit themselves entirely.  Absolute obedience doesn't seem to be a trait that is the most desirable on Gor.  In fact, the Goreans are said to prefer a free woman who is of high caste to submit and learn her slavery.  Also, those that sell best on the block are those who move as a slave and respond well to the slavers whip.  That is even more important than being superficially beautiful.  Especially, since, on Gor, many of the women are extremely attractive.

The books say that, like someone previous said, it is simply the role of the slave to please the master.  Also, since physical beauty is subjective, that is also simply part of pleasing the master.  They may please their master with blind obedience or not.



The goal of this thread was not to have “this and that” recited from the books to debate for the reason of simply debating. Further I have found that it is especially difficult to debate the books with another free man who has not read them fully. It can be appropriate at times to debate the books when relevant and when not it can be rather superfluous.

However reading the books is valid and can be valuable if read in context systematically and methodically. I agree with this and have been studying since the 70's. It is the living what a man knows is what is of value. IMO How he defines “what exquisite beauty and absolute obedience in a slave girl?“ is obviously subjective and stated a number of times by myself and others.

Obviously other free have commented and I agree overall with many points. I have my own views also as any man would and does. Especially when it comes to forming definitions that are workable in a manner which is transferable here on earth into living what a man believes. Not mere words alone, that anyone can espouse from having read the books. It is in the living where the fruit is, not merely reciting the books.

I remember daily that this is an ongoing journey one which began quite surprisingly long ago shortly thereafter when the feminist were having “bra burning parties” on College campuses and the Hippie movement was preaching “ free love.” Then there was gor. And of course the story continues. Some things that come your way are unexpected yet none the less the right thing to do.

I have my answer(s). What else can a man do but to search and find only then to decide what works for him in the answer he discovers through his own work and then practice what he believes in and living who he is as man. He alone can define what works for him. As it should be after all else where is freedom?


I wish you well,

~ Zevar ~

_____________________________

Beagán agus a rá go maith.
Gaelic saying

Broken Irish is better than clever English.
Irish proverb

House of Livingston
A Gaelic Irish gentleman master
Finte na hÉireann

(in reply to Nephilim)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: *Exquisite beauty & absolute Obedience*---in a slav... - 7/1/2009 7:22:39 AM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3033
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters, Mistresses, and slaves,

I have always believed that absolute obedience and exquisite beauty go hand in hand.  In order to be absolutely obedient, one must obey to the letter of what has been asked of you.  In order to incorporate exquisite beauty, the spirit of the request must also be fulfilled. 

I have often heard Men say that they don't care whether or not a girl is happy or joyous about serving as long as she does as she is told.  I can understand that. 

In order to fulfill the two parts of this directive though, it is imperative that a girl be infused with a joy of serving.  So that any menial task becomes a symphony in her heart.  It's interesting, SJ and I were speaking of this topic recently and he asked how often I was truly invested in my work and when it became a routine.  He decided to create some mantras or affirmations for me to utilize when I do things like the dishes to help recall the greater purpose of my service at that particular time. 

For me, service has always been the driving force within a relationship. In order to be pleasing to SJ, I know to follow his directives and in order to obey fully, the service itself must be filled with the same passion and longing I feel every time I kneel at his feet. 

well wishes ~ fairer than she

_____________________________

"The girl shows up tomorrow evening for some time together...and I need someone to fuck with, so things are looking up, I reckon. "

"The girl is a world class somnambulist." ~ Senor Jaime

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 20
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