RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/20/2006 10:43:41 PM

MasterFerdinand

Posts: 59
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Hell, or Texas...whichever...
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFerdinand

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFerdinand

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Greetings Master Ferdinand:

Thank you for joining the discussion.

For a Free Man to sign a contract with a woman is an act of making her a FC not a slave. That is much of what differentiates Gor from some other lifestyles. They do not sign "contracts" or documentation of his behavior towards her what he can and cannot do. She is slave. Providing for a slave i understand but that is by His choice not by the indadvertent demand of slave because she signed something. After a woman has a collar locked on her neck she is slave, therefore, she puts her well being, and her future without him in his hands. Signing the "consent" forms still makes her equal after she is in a collar because that piece of paper holds the Master to a contract with a slave.

you misunderstood what I meant about a contract, angel. I meant, while the two parties are getting to know each other, the Master should set limits to what He will do, in whatever circumstances arrise, and He should have His kajira read, and sign the document. This is merely a self-protection under the law in the US. Not an F/C commitment.

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/20/2006 11:40:16 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

i have only known 2 Gorean Masters BOTH use the time of 'under consideration'..to see if there is a 'compatability' that will work for the 'long term' before the slave begs a collar and actual ownership takes place.
in some aspects this time does give a slave negotiation rights....
both parties are taking the time to see if they will get along and,
just b/c one is a slave and one is a master doesn't necessarily mean ownership will be involved---or that such one master will make such one slaves belly burn....
each and every one of us brings to the table certain qualifications that they will or will not settle on.....(ie for you angel, height is an issue) then...
with her knowing that once owned she may only have a say,if allowed, and that Master has the FINAL decision in all things that concern her life.

ps the community is aware there are those that exist that do abuse, that is why kajira relief exists.

If you read my profile on the other side, you will see that this is what House Iron Bear does with the initial House Collar which is a probationary one. It gives us all to look at compatability.

One of my legal advisors and Lodge Brothers who is a BDSM Master of long standing, also asked me why dont I just retire from all public areas of the lifestyle including lists etc and forget about collaring another girl.. In his view it saves any problems occuring later ... It is excelent advise which I am considering... I could leave Neets do all the collering and play stuff and go fishing instead

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 4:40:40 AM

barelynangel

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Dread, i was not questioning your Goreaness or not, that statement has nothing to do with you and unless you read out of context you should realize that, so your hurt feelings are not necessary. what i was speaking of was your initial statement along the lines of my questions were not just a Gorean Question.

You said:

quote:

the whole of the situations you are discussing and thinking on can be done so on a totally vanilla type of mindset. In other words take out the Gor words the Master and slave words and what you have left is a situation where you have two points of views on a situation and a judge who will look at these things based off of the evidence.

If you take the whole first paragraph of what you posted for your benefit of acting like it was personal against you, i said,

quote:

I think you misunderstood what i was asking... i was asking for a Gorean point of view regarding the aspect of gorean lives.... i was not negating that these types of issues don't occur in vanilla life.

You missed that last statement which puts a whole different spin on what the first two sentenses say, and gives a different connotation and NOT a personal remark to you. That is the danger of taking apart and quoting a part instead of the whole.

i don't mind people taking apart my posts but i do mind when people take the part instead of a whole and utilize them out of context or try and put a negative personal spin on it as if i was insulting them. i will not apologize because you decided to take something out of context and make it personal to you, when it had nothing to do with you.

The way you worded your story i wasn't sure what you were trying to say, so i stated that, maybe i should have put a question mark after it so you would clarifiy it more so than taking your ball and going home. i did think your information about POAs was good and i commented on it.

i wish you well, angel.

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Post #: 63

RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 4:44:19 AM

barelynangel

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smiles.. thank you Master IronBear, i have enjoyed your discussion on this topic and thank you for your insight.

angel

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 4:57:11 AM

barelynangel

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hi fyre... lol my height preference is going to haunt me for life lol. Your last statement of your 1st paragraph to me is what i was speaking of.... no matter what transpired BEFORE the collar and ownership, after that ownership, those negotiations become moot for the Master may decide to change his mastery of the slave and how her enslavement will progress. He is not locked into any past practice simply because the slave thinks she has negotiated with him. Now that doesn't mean Men do that always and without good reason, but that is why begging a collar is not a game, once she is owned, she places herself in his hands, he may or may not follow past practice or give any consideration to what the slave "negotiated" so to speak before begging a collar. This could be a easy and fun transition for the slave or it could knock her off balance perhaps on her ass and she has to adjust. A slave cannot cry foul just because she doesn't like it.

That is what being slave is, she adjusts to him, not Him staying within some boundries she set because of past practice. The slave has two choices to be slave adjust to his wants and desires because of her enslavement and mastery of her or to run.

I agree there are Men who abuse out there. And there are slaves who need support because of it.

angel

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 5:01:29 AM

MasterABD

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I do n ot mean to offend you in my postings and it seems thats exactly what I am doing, so this will be my last postin g on the matter. I am sorry but in my opinion you do not understand what a contract is. I will try to explain this as best as I can.

You keep saying that the master is not answering to his slave, but instead to the law. Well with any type of contract you don't answer to law, the law simpily enforces a contract between two people, this is true of all contracts including implied contracts.

quote:

Master IronBear, i have a question on why you would focus more on the contract than you would an indemnification, waiver, release of liability ("Indemnification")?

indemnidication agreements, are a contract. As are waivers, as are release of liablilities, as are written contracts, as are verbal contracts, and implied contracts as well. In none of these contracts do you ever answer to the second party of the contract, rather you answer to the law, who upholds you to your contract with the other party. The fact that the second party in the contracts is a slave, matters not to the law, as they see the second party as a person.

You say I am being to literal, yet when dealing with contracts one has to be literal, thats what makes a contract. Did you know unless a pre-nup is signed (another type of contract), even a slave when divorsing a man can take 1/2 of what he owns, as IronBear so clearly pointed out. This is another contract one should consider before marrying a slave (or living with her for any length of time).

Everyone keeps saying a contract between a slave and a master is not upheald in a cort of law. Thats only true in the bdsm sense of a slave contract. Thats only true if a slave is defining her duties, and a master his. However when a slave turns over everything she possesses to a master, a contract should be used. Why? So that there is documentation she has signed everything to him, then a separate contract (or joint contract) to say she cannot later take it back. This in fact does define her place as a slave.

I think you need to sit down and honestly consider what a contract actually is, how it pertains to the lifestyle, and what it can be used for (which I perhaps misunderstood but I thought was actually your original question). This is why a contract can be made between a gorean master and his slave, and makes him no less the master. As almost everyone has pointed out yet you keep arguing with me about, this is earth not gor, therefore the laws of gor do not apply here, even if you wish they did.

I am sorry if I seem harsh in this reesponce, but I do understand the laws of the US, I do understand contracts, I do understand the difference between gorean philosphy and bdsm, I do in fact know the difference between a gorean M/s relationship and that of other BDSM types, and I do understand wthe difference in a gorean man from other men in other lifestyles. However in understanding these differences, I also hold true some things are totally impracticle to not take into consideration when dealing with the subject of gor on earth.

-ABitDifferent-
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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 5:06:41 AM

barelynangel

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grins teasingly at Master Ferdinand, having posting problems?

i'm sorry , i still don't agree a Master who follows Gorean philosophies would sign a contract with a slave and set limits and boundries of how he will hold her in her slavery. i do understand protection based on some horror stories i have heard, but a Man should not be held to a piece of paper to direct his master and enslavement of a woman. Being held accountable to a slave because he is a party of a contract with her, makes her a peer not a slave. Makes him bound by limits to a slave. What happens if you want to do something not on the contract, does the Master and slave then sit down and negotiate about it so she is in agreement? and if not, then why do it with the rest? Do you see why i have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of a contract and Gorean Men with a slave? i just don't believe consent is a reason to completely negate the totality of slave within the mind of a Gorean Man. There has got to be another way to show consent.

Thanks for the discussion,

angel

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 7:57:00 AM

lisaSea

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Joined: 8/27/2005
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quote:

There has got to be another way to show consent.

There is, very simply, the slave begs the collar. At that point, she is consenting to him, with all that follows. Does the master consent to the slave? By granting what she begs, in a way yes, he is under no obligation.

It must work, evident by the many people thriving in gorean M/s relationships, without a written contract.

lisa{Sea's}

< Message edited by lisaSea -- 2/21/2006 7:59:43 AM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 9:38:32 AM

MrDiscipline44

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Here is the definition of the word contract:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=contract
As one can see, the first entry is: An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law. Note that it says "especially one that is written....." and not "only one that is written.....". This means that a verbal agreement is also a contract.

So, even if a Gorean man is collaring a slave that is begging his collar, he is entering a contract. Contracts do not have to be negotiated, they can be as simple as "I'll collar you as long as you do all that I say reguardless of what it is. Your only choice is to take it or leave it." There is no negotiation here and yet, it is still a contract. It is the basis of a Gorean relationship between the Master and the slave. It is binding only to the two who enter it and not enforcible by law but it is a verbal contract non the less.

Edited to note: This wasn't meant toward you lisa. This was a general statement about the thread as a whole. But I hit the "Post Reply" button and it replied to you.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 2/21/2006 9:40:30 AM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 9:57:54 AM

barelynangel

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Master ABD, First of all, i never said a Master is answerable to the LAW regards to a contract, i stated that within a contract he is answerable to the other party HIS SLAVE. Which is why i state a Gorean Man does not negotiate with his slave nor is he accountable to her; which is why contracts don't work within gor. The whole idea i was stating lol was a contract makes a Man answerable to the slave! And a Man is not answerable to his slave! You really missed that didn't you. Enforcing does not mean accountable too. It means someone is making one party the Master be accountable for his promises, his statements etc in a contract to in your case a slave.

i stated if he murders someone he is answerable to the law, if he breaks the law he is answerable to the State his peers etc. I stated in his actions he may be accountible to the law, his peers, his family, friends, children, but NOT his slave. I said a Man of Gor is NOT answerable to his slave where in a contract the parties are answerable to each other. Contracts are agreements between two parties, the law never is even aware of them most of the time unless there is a dispute that needs interpreting. If one party does not perform said agreements within that contract than the other party may terminate the contract, there may be provisions within the contract that state if one party violates provisions then they have a liability to the other party. Your telling me the parties are not answerable within a contract to each other boggles the mind.

We have yet to have a contract within our firm where someone is accountable to the law instead of the other party to the contract based on the contract. If contracts go before a court, it is not that any party is accountable to the court, it means the court is going to interpret the contract for the parties and a court order will enforce that interpretation because there is a difference of opinion (i.e. doesn't agree a provision was violated etc). The court then decides what the contract means but that doesn't change the accountiblity. When a company violates a contract and a grievance is made, an arbitrator interprets the contract but whoever loses is not accountible to the arbitrator but to the party that won. When a woman and man are married, they are not accountible to the court, a court decides who is right in the dispute of divorce and if the violation has occured or if termination is indeed valid and then the losing party is accountible to the winning side whether it be alimony, child support, division of assets etc. I could go on and on, but ironically i lol have a contract to finish and get to one of our clients. Oh and unless there is a question of interpretation, this contract will never be seen by a court of law but instead will only be seen between the two parties. Do you realize that most contract disputes are settled between the parties and never reach a hearing or court at all? So tell me how is the law involved? Most of our contracts have a grievance process that only have the two parties involved trying to work it out between them, if they cannot then they take it to an arbitrator.

Marraige is far removed from M/s in my opinion so i cannot comment on it in depth. In the eyes of the law in this case she is signing as a woman about to become a wife a partner within the eyes of the law NOT a slave to a man. Its Man and wife, not Man and slave. Actually more than half is sometimes awarded in divorces. i know California law has a no-fault policy for divorces i believe where unless the parties come to an agreement themselves the assets are split 50/50. I also know of someone who lost basically everything in his divorce here in TN because the judge decided he was the cause of the divorce. The only time a person is answerable to the court is when they violate a court order or a law then they are considered in contempt of court or guilty of a crime. For example, if a Man is ordered to pay childsupport to his wife and doesn't based on the judges order, that is when he is answerable to the court. If a Man and women say never married but have a kid agree on child support without involving a court even write up a contract between them and the Man stops paying, the woman then has to take him into court obtain a court order telling him to pay up, and then if he does not he is in violation of the courts order NOT the contract she and he agreed upon -- the court order itself can be a clarificaton of a provision in a contract between two peope the court order is the enforcement, but until that court order if violated the party is accountable to the other party NOT the court.

i am here for discussion, i do two things on these boards, i take what i feel is right into account people who have meritous ideas and arguments (yes even when they are opposite of mine), and i discard the rest. I just don't agree with you and you don't agree with me. So what.

i have been learning for these last 5 years and will continue to do so through discussions, and knowing Men of Gor and women of Gor who live the lifestyle daily and know what can and cannot be accomplished within the scope of transfering the philosophies to todays society because they live it. When i become owned again, i will know even more. I will continue to learn from people, i may see things black and white a lot, i am learning to see gray, but to me too many people see too much gray and want to use the copout of this is earth not Gor all the time. Instead of actually sitting down saying wait a minute, the concepts can be applied within my life and lived easily i just need to decipher how that happens because i know people who do it.

grins its a good thing my boss doesn't share your opinion on my not understanding contracts lol otherwise, i'd be out of a job.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/21/2006 10:06:15 AM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 5:05:15 PM

fyreredsub

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aye Master IB you might miss the hunt..

but fishing is a good thing. somehow methinks you might get bored tho

consideration is a very good thing. it gives that much needed time....to see if actions match words spoken.

I have Master that still guides me, that i can turn to for advice in times of trouble, he does not steer me wrong...
the greatest gift he gave to me was making me see that 'seeking my own counsel'(following my gut) was the best thing i could do for myself in following my path.

the M/s bond does not break easily.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

i have only known 2 Gorean Masters BOTH use the time of 'under consideration'..to see if there is a 'compatability' that will work for the 'long term' before the slave begs a collar and actual ownership takes place.
in some aspects this time does give a slave negotiation rights....
both parties are taking the time to see if they will get along and,
just b/c one is a slave and one is a master doesn't necessarily mean ownership will be involved---or that such one master will make such one slaves belly burn....
each and every one of us brings to the table certain qualifications that they will or will not settle on.....(ie for you angel, height is an issue) then...
with her knowing that once owned she may only have a say,if allowed, and that Master has the FINAL decision in all things that concern her life.

ps the community is aware there are those that exist that do abuse, that is why kajira relief exists.

If you read my profile on the other side, you will see that this is what House Iron Bear does with the initial House Collar which is a probationary one. It gives us all to look at compatability.

One of my legal advisors and Lodge Brothers who is a BDSM Master of long standing, also asked me why dont I just retire from all public areas of the lifestyle including lists etc and forget about collaring another girl.. In his view it saves any problems occuring later ... It is excelent advise which I am considering... I could leave Neets do all the collering and play stuff and go fishing instead

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 5:10:01 PM

fyreredsub

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i am sorry angel, it was the best example that came to mind...i dont want a shorter than me man either

yes Master can change the foundation of the relationship at any given time and the slave need adjust,that is why consideration time is crucial before a girl begs a collar...to make sure they do indeed have a Master that is honorable and not the abusive sort(and that should hold true for any M/s dynamic)

i bel;ieve that if a slave is mastered properly she will not balk at the change but willingly comply.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

hi fyre... lol my height preference is going to haunt me for life lol. Your last statement of your 1st paragraph to me is what i was speaking of.... no matter what transpired BEFORE the collar and ownership, after that ownership, those negotiations become moot for the Master may decide to change his mastery of the slave and how her enslavement will progress. He is not locked into any past practice simply because the slave thinks she has negotiated with him. Now that doesn't mean Men do that always and without good reason, but that is why begging a collar is not a game, once she is owned, she places herself in his hands, he may or may not follow past practice or give any consideration to what the slave "negotiated" so to speak before begging a collar. This could be a easy and fun transition for the slave or it could knock her off balance perhaps on her ass and she has to adjust. A slave cannot cry foul just because she doesn't like it.

That is what being slave is, she adjusts to him, not Him staying within some boundries she set because of past practice. The slave has two choices to be slave adjust to his wants and desires because of her enslavement and mastery of her or to run.

I agree there are Men who abuse out there. And there are slaves who need support because of it.

angel

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/21/2006 7:04:36 PM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

aye Master IB you might miss the hunt.. but fishing is a good thing. somehow methinks you might get bored tho

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

If you read my profile on the other side, you will see that this is what House Iron Bear does with the initial House Collar which is a probationary one. It gives us all to look at compatability.

One of my legal advisors and Lodge Brothers who is a BDSM Master of long standing, also asked me why dont I just retire from all public areas of the lifestyle including lists etc and forget about collaring another girl.. In his view it saves any problems occuring later ... It is excelent advise which I am considering... I could leave Neets do all the collering and play stuff and go fishing instead

Bored lass???? Damn right I will for starters, however, there is no point in hunting when there is no game in the areas to which you are limited to. Now fishing on the otherhand is different in that i can park a vehical on a lonely beach, set thr ods up and settle back with a heap of coffee and iced drings, an aray of food and the company of solitude and just regenerate.... Ergo bordom will go away if I break off all lifestyle contact and just keep the contacts with friends in a vanilla level. The frustration and dissapointments will go too................. Memories are good to have for company on lonely nights on isolated beaches...... Still there is much to be brooded over yet and we shall see what we shall see.....

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/21/2006 7:05:34 PM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/22/2006 8:31:35 AM

MistressDREAD

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quote:

yet when dealing with contracts one has to be literal, thats what makes a contract

This is what I was originally tempting to say in My first post that barelyaangle still takes wrong.

quote:

i'm sorry , i still don't agree a Master who follows Gorean philosophies would sign a contract with a slave and set limits and boundries of how he will hold her in her slavery

ALL of the successfull Gorean Homes I know personally all have contracts, agreements, legally filed papers in a court of law done and by the Gorean Master of the House. Most of these Gorean Homes have survived for more then 20 years now. you can disagree with the philosophie all you will but reality stands to prove you wrong and so does the laws of the land.

and barelynangel you dont like how I perceive your words, to bad, get over it and yourself. Im still a Free Woman and Gorean. you want to talk about legalities but actually you want to fight against others actual life living and experiance from what I see.

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/22/2006 9:25:27 AM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/22/2006 8:46:00 AM

MistressDREAD

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And now We take a moment for a break from your threads normal prograhming [shameless advo]

quote:

company of solitude and just regenerate

Your welcome to come to My hidden lost beach of solitude and regenerate any ol time Iron!
get shameless and naked on a beautiful beach on the ocean all to Your self.
Build a fire and when the fishermen come in theyll throw a fish on the barbie for Ya
Make You a jamaicanholic in no time! Thinks of all the sea grape bushes a kinkie Woman
could peep thru..... LMBAO

And now We return to The threads regular prograhming.

[Mod Note: Please post your ads in the 'For Sale' forum]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/22/2006 2:37:27 PM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/22/2006 9:31:07 AM

barelynangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
and barelynangel you dont like how I perceive your words, to bad, get over it and yourself. [/color][/size][/font]

Actually Dread what i was responding to was your whining and implication of hurt feelings and then your taking your ball and going home idea based on your negative perceptions of my words in a post that was TO ME. I was actually trying to be nice and tell you i wasn't indicating anything you perceived because you decided to quote out of context to support your whining. Therefore, in the future, i will let you perceive what you wish no matter how negative instead of indicating otherwise so you don't take what was said negatively, as you had. If you don't want a reply to your whining from me directly.. then don't post to me directly as you did. You can stamp your feet and identify as a Free Woman, however, if you whine ... don't expect me to pat you on the head to passify you. I guess this will teach me to deviate from my normal plan of just ignoring your posts.

oh and Dread, if you don't like how i reply to your whining when you whine to me in a post directed to me, to bad, get over it and yourself.

I wish you well,

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/22/2006 9:50:13 AM >

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RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/22/2006 9:58:55 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

And now We take a moment for a break from your threads normal prograhming [shameless advo]

quote:

company of solitude and just regenerate

Your welcome to come to My hidden lost beach of solitude and regenerate any ol time Iron!
get shameless and naked on a beautiful beach on the ocean all to Your self.
Build a fire and when the fishermen come in theyll throw a fish on the barbie for Ya
Make You a jamaicanholic in no time! Thinks of all the sea grape bushes a kinkie Woman
could peep thru..... LMBAO

And now We return to The threads regular prograhming.

Bloody hell DREAD, I'd want a kinky Jamaican woman naked on the beach with me warming herself by the fire, especially if she was submissive......... VWEG.... RWL

"Ya gota play the game. It's all in the game and how you play it!"

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

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Post #: 77

RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/22/2006 2:43:28 PM

unownedredhead

Posts: 498
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

One of my legal advisors and Lodge Brothers who is a BDSM Master of long standing, also asked me why dont I just retire from all public areas of the lifestyle including lists etc and forget about collaring another girl.. In his view it saves any problems occuring later ... It is excelent advise which I am considering... I could leave Neets do all the collering and play stuff and go fishing instead

Master IronBear,

Even if you never collar another wench, please don't leave the site. I really find you to be insightful and sometimes entertaining, (no disrespect intended). Please stay.

dina

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Kneeling trembling at your feet

(in reply to IronBear)

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Post #: 78

RE: FOR GOREANS: Legalities possibilities - 2/22/2006 3:44:16 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

Best wishes to you Master IB, you know you are one of this girls favorite Masters to learn from on this board

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

aye Master IB you might miss the hunt.. but fishing is a good thing. somehow methinks you might get bored tho

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

If you read my profile on the other side, you will see that this is what House Iron Bear does with the initial House Collar which is a probationary one. It gives us all to look at compatability.

One of my legal advisors and Lodge Brothers who is a BDSM Master of long standing, also asked me why dont I just retire from all public areas of the lifestyle including lists etc and forget about collaring another girl.. In his view it saves any problems occuring later ... It is excelent advise which I am considering... I could leave Neets do all the collering and play stuff and go fishing instead

Bored lass???? Damn right I will for starters, however, there is no point in hunting when there is no game in the areas to which you are limited to. Now fishing on the otherhand is different in that i can park a vehical on a lonely beach, set thr ods up and settle back with a heap of coffee and iced drings, an aray of food and the company of solitude and just regenerate.... Ergo bordom will go away if I break off all lifestyle contact and just keep the contacts with friends in a vanilla level. The frustration and dissapointments will go too................. Memories are good to have for company on lonely nights on isolated beaches...... Still there is much to be brooded over yet and we shall see what we shall see.....

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"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to IronBear)

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Post #: 79