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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:48:27 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Can a non religious person say... Amen Calla!

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(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:55:46 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		there are many obstacles and pitfalls ahead for the US in its search for a solution to the health care issue, perhaps the words of the father of the canadian health care system would be appropriate here:

"Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world."


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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

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(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 10:57:14 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Profit has NO BUSINESS in the health care business. Bottom line.



...while i totally agree with you, you may want to watch out. That's heresy, and the Patriot Act may come and get you........

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 11:08:55 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Hey brain, rather than just posting blog links, how about telling us where you stand. What do you think about all these stories you keep posting?



I have an opinion obviously but I didn’t want to influence other people, I just wanted the discussion to take its own course and people to decide for themselves. But since you asked I won’t hide anything by telling you that I agree with the president 100%, that health care reform is needed right now and that it’s long overdue.

But frankly, I think it’s shameful that the wealthiest country in the world doesn’t provide healthcare to its own citizens like other Western industrialized nations. Other countries consider this to be uncivilized and I agree.

The other important point is the present healthcare system is not sustainable. Increasing costs will leave no money for anything else in the budget except to pay for healthcare and that is a ridiculous. I think there are a lot of people making a lot of money in healthcare and we are lucky to have a man like Bill Moyers who is on top of the issues and is very informative.

But getting back to your question, yes I am very much in favor of the presidents’ healthcare reform effort and I hope people get behind him and do everything possible to get a bill passed this year - the type of bill the president is asking for with some kind of single-payer option.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 11:34:49 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		If you want to know the truth about healthcare and other countries watch this program on PBS.

Frontline, Sick around the World. Five Capitalist Democracies and how they do it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/


Click on watch the Full Program Online. (near the flags)

I cant believe all the lies in commercials on TV every day right now about healthcare and other countries. They are spending millions of dollars in commercials on TV now telling us lies about healthcare and other countries.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 11:46:27 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

They are spending millions of dollars in commercials on TV now telling us lies about healthcare and other countries.

Nothing new there, I have been trying to find evidence of the oppresive and dictatorial health care bureaucracy here in Canada for over 20 years. I keep hearing and reading about it in the US media, but I have yet to actually experience it.


_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 12:00:47 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

If you want to know the truth about healthcare and other countries watch this program on PBS.

Frontline, Sick around the World. Five Capitalist Democracies and how they do it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/


Click on watch the Full Program Online. (near the flags)

I cant believe all the lies in commercials on TV every day right now about healthcare and other countries. They are spending millions of dollars in commercials on TV now telling us lies about healthcare and other countries.




If anybody wants to watch this show on Frontline start with the first country on the left which is Britain. The beginning of the show starts with the British. By the way I strongly suggest watching this because you can get a real appreciation what healthcare is like, really like, in other countries.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 12:08:06 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I once had an injury at work that caused my pre-existing illness to flare up and then had to apply for assistance from social services for a couple of months as I had a minor um. Because I was ill, I had to sign a paper to do anything and everything my doctor said to do, no matter what I might think of the treatment.  Goverment and health care has always had some connection and in this connection they put me in danger. I signed the document because I was forced to, knowing the treatment they wanted me to do was life threatening to me. Later these same medications were found to be dangerous to many people and taken off the market.

I signed the government document first name, middle name of Diress and last name and quickly tried to find another doctor. Now with records going computerized... I wouldn't have that option.  I expect more of the same and worse.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/17/2009 12:58:34 PM   
autoRelease


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/22/2009
Status: offline 		That's pretty outrageous Lockit. I've never heard of such a thing in Canada, although I've never been in that situation.

I've experienced both government and for-profit health care, and neither system is perfect.  They both have their pros and cons and frankly I don't see why they can't co-exist.  In fact, they already do; Although we in Canada don't pay for basic health care, we can get private insurance that provides better coverage. When I got laid off and my employer sponsored coverage was terminated, I had to choose which was going to take the hit: My health or my wallet.Years ago there was a political furor here about the possibility of instituting "two-tiered" health care, but in reality that already exists.

When you get down to it, the rich have advantages over the poor in every aspect of life, including health care. Different systems may be able to mitigate that but nothing will ever eliminate it.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 12:14:43 AM   
awmslave


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Joined: 3/31/2006
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quote:

When you get down to it, the rich have advantages over the poor in every aspect of life, including health care. Different systems may be able to mitigate that but nothing will ever eliminate it.


Certainly! US has pro profit health care industry. Lower 50% of the population can not really afford quality health care (they just do not have income and assets). The question is quite simple: How much wealth can ruling oligarchy "waste" on health care for poor. I am very skeptical anything useful comes out of the current effort.

(in reply to autoRelease)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 2:43:35 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Certainly! US has pro profit health care industry. Lower 50% of the population can not really afford quality health care (they just do not have income and assets). The question is quite simple: How much wealth can ruling oligarchy "waste" on health care for poor. I am very skeptical anything useful comes out of the current effort.



So you didnt watch the link on world healthcare systems then ?

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 4:14:55 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Unless Congress offers us the exact same health coverage they have, I'm not interested, they're supposed to work for us, not rule over us.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 5:26:30 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Unless Congress offers us the exact same health coverage they have, I'm not interested, they're supposed to work for us, not rule over us.


Care to explain how creating a health service for everyone isnt "working for the people "

It amuses me how those on the right see spending millions on the army, differently than spending it on health. Either way its "Your" money being spent.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 1:11:50 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		What she said.

Profiteering distorts medical care, the focus becomes the profits not the care.

Calla, your posts on the medical industry are excellent, thank you for sharing . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I'm sorry, but the only way to end the rising cost of health-care is to get it out of the realm of 'for profit' industry. As long as companies are involved in health care to make a profit, health care costs will continue to rise, because profits must rise. If we want reasonable health care costs, then there can be no benefit aside from meeting ones operational costs (which could be significantly reduced were we to move to a single-payor plan) and that of knowing that one's work is healing individuals.

I can't be clear enough about this -- as long as insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, pharmacies, imaging centers, cancer treatment centers, hospices, nursing facilities, etc., are in business to make a profit off of people's poor health, there will -always- be health disparity, always be excessive cost, always be excessive paperwork, always be denial of services and always... always... the costs will be rising to keep the company's profits as high as they can possibly be, so that the stockholders, rather than the patients and practitioners, determine appropriate medical care and the costs thereof.

Profit has NO BUSINESS in the health care business. Bottom line.

DC


(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 6:16:37 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I am sure the same thing is going on in the United States with the big pharmaceutical companies and the healthcare industry.

Europe attacks tactics that delay generic drugs
European patients, taxpayers and national treasuries are being fleeced of billions of euros because of the big pharmaceutical companies' elaborate campaigns to delay the marketing of cheaper generic drugs, the European commission said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/jul/08/business-pharmaceticals-europeancommission


(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 9:54:48 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline 		Politesub53
quote:

So you didnt watch the link on world healthcare systems then ?
[/quote/]
Thanks for pointing it out.
The countries like GB, Japan, Germany are nation states and this makes it much easier to introduce the system what serves common interest for all. US is not a true nation and to introduce something of national interest (like health care for all) would be an oddity.
I liked actually candidate McCain plan better than Obama ideas.


(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/18/2009 10:32:26 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

I had to choose which was going to take the hit: My health or my wallet.


No you did not, what you had to choose between was your wallet or nonesential frills added to your health care.

quote:

Years ago there was a political furor here about the possibility of instituting "two-tiered" health care, but in reality that already exists

Yes it does, but in its present form what the "well to do" pay for are extras such as private rooms, cable TV services, fancier meals, All of which is available to Joe Schmo if he is willing to pay for it. There is, in Canada, no special access tier of health care that allows you better or faster access to services. Yes one can go to a privately run clinic for tests and may indeed get faster service, but every such test performed in Canada is charged to the appropriate Provincial department for the full amount allowed, regardless of what you may have paid. 

quote:

When you get down to it, the rich have advantages over the poor in every aspect of life, including health care. Different systems may be able to mitigate that but nothing will ever eliminate it.

Yes, you are right, but in Canada this disparity has been reduced to an issue of timing, not quality. It is possible to run a universal health care program that allows for state (read provincial) rights...it can only be done, however, if your elected representatives have the cojones do do the right thing.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/19/2009 2:54:43 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

US is not a true nation and to introduce something of national interest (like health care for all) would be an oddity.
I liked actually candidate McCain plan better than Obama ideas.




I dont see providing health care for all as an oddity. The system we have in the UK isnt perfect but at least everyone has equal access. Those who are financially able to jump the queue often do so, although the treatment received is often carried out by those same NHS hospitals and staff.

(in reply to awmslave)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/19/2009 5:58:22 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline 		The health care industry is speeding $1.4 million a day to fight Obama.

The head of Cigna gets about $11 million a year.
The head of Aetna gets about $18 million a year.
The head of the largest health care provider gets about $30 million a year.

The next time a republican speaks to you, spit in his face.

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/19/2009 9:49:57 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		How Dennis Kucinich May Save the Promise of Health Reform
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/18/754926/-How-Dennis-Kucinich-May-Save-the-Promise-of-Health-Reform-


Obviously, a public insurance plan for which 10 million are eligible to enroll isn't going to serve as an example of the efficiency that comes with a single-payer type system. And the fact that they designed a pretty good public option for which most of the public will be ineligible to enroll (and that wouldn't have as much potential for cost savings as one would hope) was enough to make me consider opposing it. Howard Dean told me recently that he thought a bill without a robust public option wasn't worth passing, and I agree.


And that's where Kucinich, a supporter of single-payer, comes in. He's trying to save the whole promise of this project.

On Friday, an amendment he authored was added to the House bill that allows states to create their own single-payer systems instead of adopting the federally-run exchange system. The original bill allowed states only to enact their own exchange system -- it was a nod to federalism -- with the proviso that if a state (think a deep red one in the South) refused to adopt the plan, the feds could step in and set it up.

The Kucinich amendment is really key. If it were to survive the legislative sausage-making and be enacted into law, the we might expect a progressive state to take advantage of the opportunity and enact a single-payer system in the coming years. And, if those of us who have been pushing such an arrangement are correct, the result will be greater access and better outcomes at a lower price tag for that state's residents.

And then we can move from an often ill-informed argument over the Canadian or British systems to a debate in which we can hold up a model in which millions of real Americans see very tangible benefits from an actual single-payer system in action.
Thanks, Dennis! Now let's see what comes out of the Senate.
Note: I'll have more next week on the good, the bad and the ugly in the new health care bill.


http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/joshua/141404/how_dennis_kucinich_may_save_the_health_reform_battle/#more











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Profile   Post #: 60
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