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Why the Animosity


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Why the Animosity - 2/19/2006 7:34:27 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

For awhile now I have read the differing thought process's regarding Alternative lifes of Goreans and of those in BDSM.

I can not completely come to agreement that it is a animosity from those not Gorean simply because of how they view women, and or keep slaves. Some of that simply because being Gorean is not much about that. Yet this seems to be the constant framework inwhich the animosity arises, and for those that strike without understanding that it is not..to them that seems a very valid arguementive platform.

But it also struck me that alot of animosity towards those that call themselves Goreans comes from a non talked about platform. That being: they do not wish to change. They do not wish to improve upon themselves. They do not wish to work harder or be more honest or more responsible. The mark and level at which they are at is comfortable, and they do not wish to have that next level or bar out there to have to try and measure up to for the Man. So in order to negate it..the other arguements come to light..natural order or even being elitist (spelling).

Again I am not saying that all who disagree have these other causitive factors that cause the animosity. I am just curious if I am way off base in the inclusion of it.

Thankyou in Advance

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 1:32:17 AM   
GingerleeDREAD


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
Ohh Hoooo, perceptions perceptions perceptions!
quote:

they do not wish to change. They do not wish to improve upon themselves.

Nothing I think could be farther from the truth starshine. ( WOW a new pic and she is striking out on her own both in new looks and thought process!. ~wink~ but really tho, and this is comming from quite an elitist thought processing and damn hard working Gorean Free Woman who many take offence to both with in My Lifestyle and without,
All the Goreans I know are always working on improving who they are and always exchanging and giving and taking both in words and actions that what We all strive towards living and following. We tend to generate animosity first off because We are perceived to be quite arrogant Bastards and Bitches but if you read the Gorean Books will find that this is a natural state of those who live such a life and its normal to think that those outside of such a lifestyle would have such feeling not being able to handle nor understand the way We * think* and act many times tempting to follow a path that by todays standards is quite barbaric and ruff. What We concider a normal action would be concidered aggressive by even a BDSM standard and Here on Collarme it is a very small view of the larger picture of Goreans in the world today and their views and those here do tend to be of the rather Stronger Group that hold on tight to each of Our understanding of the Concepts of John NOrmans Gor. As My Gran pa always told Us kids, Dont give an inch and if You can take anothers inches and befor you know it Youll have a mile. ~smiles evily~


< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/20/2006 9:41:27 AM >

_____________________________

"My inner children are all mean little fuckers"
"Get inbetween' em and youll get hogtied, hitched up, n hacked"

(in reply to starshineowned)
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RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 5:57:59 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings Mistress

quote:

We * think* and act many times tempting to follow a path that by todays standards is quite barbaric and ruff.
Yet another possibility.

Absolutism in some things I can not equate and cross over to being barbaric and ruff. If you would please Mistress explain what things could be thought of as barbaric and ruff as they apply today?



And yes the thoughts of "deer in headlights" or "powder keg" did cross my mind when writing.

It was overall an attempt to see if it stemmed from the individual tree's (persons calling themselves Goreans) or if it was from the forrests entirety (philosophys and ethics that the books depict as they relate and carve out Man)

It would require one to step back a moment and remove Gor itself and just get to the philosophys and ethics that belong to Earths civilizations past and present. Is it by chance the philosophys and codes themselves are seen or thought of as barbaric?

The "they do not wish to change or improve upon themselves" ..was geared at the male speices as a whole, and not individuals but that was rather hard to express and get all the meanings in on first opening. So in otherwords is the male species as a whole comfortable as they stand and harbor animosity towards the philosophys and ethics (the forrest) themselves in the books because they call for greater demands (the raising of the bar) upon the Man..or was it more personal and may come from what they take when they look upon the individual tree's, and how they represent the forrest?

Again I do hope that in brief when reading this ..the Gor or BDSM could be removed in brief and just looked at from the philosophys and ethics for Man from the origins inwhich they came to begin with..our own earthly civilizations.

Thankyou in Advance

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to GingerleeDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 11:58:17 AM   
wolffeathers


Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline 		Ok, I'm partly confused, as I can't tell if you mean Gorean Men, or BDSM, or what. A little confusing to read through.

However, I agree with Lady Dread, in that most of it deals with we are living a lifestyle considered barbaric.

Why is it considered that? Well, it's easy to see.

There is much talk about "Contractual" slaves, or slaves that say "I have this limit, that limit, oh, I don't like this, this, this, and you WILL do this". That is far from the Gorean way. The only limits slaves have are the ones the Master places on them.

Then theres the fact that we stick together. I normally don't agree with Lady Dread, but I will stand up for her if needed. As the saying goes, I may not like what she says, but I will defend her right to say it. She is a Free Woman.

Also, even though some even here may see it as being a bit harsh, a strong backhand to a slave isn't really condoned, outside that it may bring legal issues. I have no issue punishing my slave in public by dragging her by the hair, or such. That isn't considered normal.

As for Men not attempting to make themselves better. Well, we did allow NOW to live.............and now some of us are fighting it tooth, nail, and kajira. Don't ask me why I said kajira, I haven't slept in 40+ hours.

Then again, my mother had just been born when NOW came into being.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 4:04:30 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Leaving Gor aside, I'm a celtic tribesman and Warrior (albeit retired for to injuries) Am I barbaric? hell Yes! Whilst I'll negotiate and follow the conventions of my society to settle differences and avert things like home invasions, I always have weapons ready and will use them. I do not have any faith in society today to give justice and believe in policing my own business without the interference of the so called law. Advanced education has bade me a well educated barbarian. Improving yourself will be different for each person. If yopu ask why I dont inprove my Gorean lifestyle, I do. I continue to read and try to attapy more from the books to daily living according to my means. The animosoty I have found seems to stem from Goreans knowing who and what they are and seeing no reason to educate the masses. Id say it was fear, fear of the unknown which triggers distrust, rejection and animosity. I'd also say that the Gorean Lifestyle is not an easy road to travel for most of the BDSM scene will either reject you, fear you, hate you or just not want bto be involved with you too much. You will not have the wider variety of slave material to choose from, but when you do find one who pleases you, you have struck gold.

<<End of rant/thoughts so as not to piss too many people off today...yet>>

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/20/2006 4:05:37 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to wolffeathers)
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RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 5:07:00 PM   
MasterABD


Posts: 76
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		I almost was going to reply, then I read iongears reply. I think he is 200% correct in all he says.



-ABitDifferent-
http://www.alternativealbany.com

< Message edited by MasterABD -- 2/20/2006 5:08:14 PM >

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 5:36:23 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterABD

I almost was going to reply, then I read iongears reply. I think he is 200% correct in all he says.



-ABitDifferent-
http://www.alternativealbany.com



<<<<Grins at ABD>>>>

Damn it man you have blown my cover.... here's me trying to look like a Gorean Huggle Bear and now I have to admit that Iron Bear has Iron Gears and Bronz Balls, Pisses Napalm and Farts Nerve Gass..... Big Hairy is the Stealth Weapon to use on unsuspectig kajirae.........

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/20/2006 5:37:42 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MasterABD)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 7:02:55 PM   
MasterABD


Posts: 76
Joined: 7/6/2005
Status: offline 		Okay now I have been laugh laughing at the screen for nearly 5 full minutes.

My humble appologies and extreme embarassment at that. Obviously I was referring to you IronBear and again sorry, but hell it was worth it for the laugh



-ABitDifferent-
http://sextoys.alternativealbany.com

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 10:15:33 PM   
MasterFerdinand


Posts: 59
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Hell, or Texas...whichever...
Status: offline 		greetings lil one,

I think the thing here is, who's complacent? Is it the Gorean, living r/t with His kajira(e), or the BDSM'er who roleplays his scenes, then goes home to his nice, safe little vanilla world?

I was a "Gorean", born and raised, and that was before Norman ever wrote a book. This is My life, and My lifeSTYLE.
I identify with my fellow Goreans because they have virtually the same philosophies that I do. I am Me, nothing else, and unapologetic about it, that doesn't mean that I don't have room to grow, hell as I get older, I find out things about myself everyday. Life is a journey, and when one reaches the last discovery along the way, one is ready to move on to the next phase.

Looking back, there's nothing I would change in my life, well...maybe I'd have ducked faster a couple times, but then I wouldn't have these interesting scars, or be able to tell changes in the weather in advance, would I? chuckling...

I think any Honor system is always going to be under attack by dishonorable people, and people who hide their lifestyle behind closed doors, and act vanilla in their daily lives, are ultimately dishonorable. A good test is if you can look in the mirror, and like the person looking back at you, you're either doing ok, or lying to yourself...your choice.

IonGear?....Brother, your secret's out now!!!.......lol


_____________________________

Everyone seems normal, until you get to know them

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 10:16:25 PM   
GingerleeDREAD


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

And yes the thoughts of "deer in headlights" or "powder keg" did cross my mind when writing.
hahaha yes I was thinking that when I read the title.

OK lets take the definition part.
Barbaric
How many Goreans here live a normal life with out running water and electricity ? by todays standards this is concidered barbaric and on the edge of abusive here in the USA but it is a every day life to Me in My upbringings and the rope that splits most slaves who come to Me finding out that they will be ACTUALLY living as a slave does in a world I tempt to keep as natural as I can and still function in todays world as well totally shocks them as they go running back to the train station with their tails between their legs. ( most of My established slaves are from third world countries who have successfully stayed on for a lifetime of service. ) Its one thing to be forced into such situations by mother nature and have assistance in place to help provide your needs and you having to depend totally on your self and totally another to actually * choose * to do such and Having to actually build a fire daily to boil water is a simple task to Me and many like Me but impossible for most Ive met here to even do with out charchol and a lighter and lighter fluid. Lets not discuss the laughter that busts out when asked, * where do I get water from if nothing is comming out of the fauset?* Preist Kings forbid you discuss flintstones or wickkett sticks for rubbing and firepitch kindle to them. Thats just one sample...
Take a Free Person who is providing all thats needed for those in Their care and its expected that those who gain all from another should be in the least able to do the simplist of commands that the Free request of those in service. Dont provide it and gain a rath or punishment that most adults would think crewl treatment but an accepted and even a desired action towards a slave and from a Free. Animosity comes in from the vanilla who wish they could have such devotion at their feet for their efforts in life living but havent a clue how to attain such thru deeds. Animosity comes in from the slaves who despise the strong Free Woman for being able to provide that which they cannot nor gain the attentions of the Free Men in the ways they cannot.JMO


< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/20/2006 11:23:24 PM >

_____________________________

"My inner children are all mean little fuckers"
"Get inbetween' em and youll get hogtied, hitched up, n hacked"

(in reply to MasterABD)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 10:24:54 PM   
GingerleeDREAD


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

A good test is if you can look in the mirror, and like the person looking back at you
yea I like Me, no I love Me, and I like You to Ferdinand! I too been Gorean since befor it was fashionable.......course Ive been known to wear daisy dukes and cowboy boots too with a fur coat on the beach in the hot sun. noneconformist yeppp

Oh My preist kings iron balls, I mean jezzzzz Gears hahahaha what a vision now I have of a BEAR!


< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/20/2006 11:23:44 PM >

_____________________________

"My inner children are all mean little fuckers"
"Get inbetween' em and youll get hogtied, hitched up, n hacked"

(in reply to GingerleeDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/20/2006 11:44:27 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterABD

Okay now I have been laugh laughing at the screen for nearly 5 full minutes.

My humble appologies and extreme embarassment at that. Obviously I was referring to you IronBear and again sorry, but hell it was worth it for the laugh



-ABitDifferent-
http://sextoys.alternativealbany.com


ABD my friend if I can't laugh at a typo there is something terribly wrong. Mate there is no need for an appology but I thank you. That my responce made you and others laugh then I've justified my presence on the boards this day.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/20/2006 11:45:07 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MasterABD)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/21/2006 6:30:31 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Thankyou Masters, and Mistress for your time and thoughts here.

Just coming from a human aspect and quite removed from any labels upon them..it was the ethics and philosophys picked out by Norman for the books on one side..versus the individual person who claimed to agree and live by those ethics and philosophical outlooks.

From any side it seems always to boil down to the delivery from the individuals themselves. The appearance of being holier than thou versus being able to demonstrate acceptance of differences while still explaining their own ways.

While the words said do carrying meaning and worth (to me)..it was the delivery of them to eachother in response that makes it happen.


starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why the Animosity - 2/22/2006 9:02:06 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2932
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Delvins Own,
and I want to say that you always show your Master proud gurl,

Norman made Gor so completly diverse and full of so many differances
that it was so far beyond the times that it was even written that it was rediculous.
If it wasent for the strong context of the Male Domination with in the books
Im sure that they would of still be blacklisted because of the diversity of places
and charactors and events and goreans and their intermingling and exchanging
forces and life and charactors with in that was also just so against the times of
the world on earth at that time. look at how many changes Tarl went thru?
He went from being just a normal Man to a Warrior to a Completely Dominant
Master to a slave and then back to a Man for ever changed by all the events of
His life. Its the same for each one of Us here and each one of Us have had a
different experiance in Our Gorean izzum to take our leads off of and express
our experiances from. Arrogance, Honor, Elitists views are natural for any who
have had to stand strong against many odds not just in mind and heart and soul
and surroundings and society and the world but even on a more interactive level
between one another hence the feeling of animoisity, but remember that with
the twists of Gor here lies some answers....... a stranger is concidered an enimy
on Gor. a enimy of My enimy is My freind on Gor. Gor is not fair, right, equal, easy.
Ones perceptions of harsh words and actions or perceived animosity
is anothers layed back noncaring simpletons attitude of an every day nature that means nothing.



< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 2/22/2006 9:22:02 AM >

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 14
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