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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/2/2009 7:08:30 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
I'm thinking this is a bit of an oversimplification. If it were true, then when old whats-his-name (deformed guy married to Nefertiti) tried to introduce monotheistic sun worship to Egypt, it would have taken. But that concept was so foreign to them, the idea of one almighty god, it didn't last past the pharaoh's death.

I just now looked up pharao Akhenaten. I suspect that the monotheism introduced by him did not take because the ruling incarnate god of the Jews was murdered during Akhenaten's reign, even probably at the end of it. From that moment onwards nearly nothing is known about the conditions in heaven.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
In the Greek pantheon, what was the representation of the non-corporeal, omnipresent divine? Zeus? The Titans? The Muses? I don't think a guy whose wife regularly bested him or a group who was led by a guy whose infant son killed him and the rest are the best examples of ultimate godhood. The muses might stand a chance at it, but there were seven (I think? It's nearly 5 AM and I'm really not in the mood to open a tabfest on my browser) and why split one into seven? I suppose you could ask, why split it into three, but they didn't really do much splitting in early Christianity, more of a re-working the facts to fit a pre-chosen conclusion. Mithras lives, now he's a Jew.

I nearly broke my neck or something, trying to retrieve my Larousse World Mythology from above a couple of boxes on top of a book rack.
The Greek called the Divine 'mythos'. (It was in the first line.) I have concluded that the Greeks 'simplified' their mythology, possibly for reason of political correctness. Thus the simple answer would be that Zeus was identified with the 'mythos'.
The gods are all crazy, but each in their own aspect are more human than ordinary humans: either stronger, or more compassionate, or more creative, or more maternal and paternal, or more dominant, or...
Mithras, yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Oh and BTW yes, "god" and "good" are likely linguistically linked, that I wouldn't have argued with, but saying one is derived from the other, well...hell I have a linguistics fetish and I can't force myself through more than a few pages of PIE theorizing without wondering "how the bloody hell do they fit this half syllable into twenty different unrelated English words???"

Proto-Indo-European. I get the impression that you know far more about these matters than I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Also, totally unrelated, but after hearing one too many of my fiance's colorful Aussie sayings, I looked up the origin and while I couldn't find it, I found virtually identical phrases in 17th-18th century English thieves cant, which I found absolutely hilarious and immediately commenced teasing him about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
ETA: I hate to feel like the history police here but the etymology of "Jew" is from Hebrew "Yehudah" which derives from the place-name Judah and is usedd to refer to the tribes of Israel. And damn it you made me open another tab, cause I knew it was derived from "Judah" but didn't want to just say it based on My Word Alone(tm) so here. Bloody enjoy it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew_(word)

ETA #2 After posting that I realized that if we want to go back to PIE, the name Judah means "praised/celebrated" which could definitely have come from that PIE root that gave us God. Thats pretty freaking awesome. I was looking at "Jew" as an "iu" sound, as in "Iudaea" but reading it as ye-hu-dah and knowing how hebrew pronounces some "h" sounds...it totally could be related to "ghut."

Great. See? I am always right. I got there by another line of reasoning. It is satisfying that you arrived at the same conclusion by a different route. Well done!

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/2/2009 7:42:43 AM

Musicmystery

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Ya know--since you aren't discussing Gor, and since you even starting by noting you hadn't read the thread, that you don't even know what it's about, why don't you take this to the Religion forum?

Just a thought.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/2/2009 7:43:28 AM >

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/2/2009 9:53:48 AM

Aswad

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Good idea, Tim.

That said, Elisabella did touch on the bit that's relevant to the topic: if the Priest Kings did leave Gor at some point, the real (in the fiction) people, their advanced technology (indistinguishable from magic to someone without knowledge of science), and the passage of time, would stand a good chance of mutating into a religion. That part may bear discussing here, though I still think it's been well enough covered already.

Elisabella: Thanks. Nice to be back.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/2/2009 11:41:46 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ya know--since you aren't discussing Gor, and since you even starting by noting you hadn't read the thread, that you don't even know what it's about, why don't you take this to the Religion forum?

Just a thought.

Because *that* is one muddy stream.

You're right, though, and Rule and Aswad I'd be happy to receive private correspondence on the topic.

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/13/2009 11:45:01 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

Reply to the original poster. You can make anything into a religious idea. If you wish to you could certainly create a religion based around Gorean ideas. But for most Goreans this lifestyle is a philosophy, not a religions, though if the Gorean in question, like me, happen to be a religions person then the philosophy get entangled in one's religious life rather often, as the various philosophies and ideas in a person's life do not exist in a vacuum of each other.

If you wish to make a Gorean religion, then that should be possible. You just have to figure out how to connect this philosophy to the Spiritual and go from there. As a Chaote I love the idea of creating religions. Creating a Gorean religion might be a interesting project.

I wish you well

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/23/2009 1:41:13 PM

Acer49

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gromgor

It struck me earlier that the Gorean Philosophies and practices are similar to Taoism in that they are an inward and outward examination of self and surroundings and the interactions therein. With that principle in mind I am curious if any know of a movement to have a Gorean based religious/philosophy movement involving making into a legal entity the Gorean life. If L. Ron. Hubbard can make his books into a religion then a precedent has been set for modern day literature to be transformed and recognized and protected under the laws, given priveledges through those laws and afforded opportunities to set up meeting places (similar to churches) that were recognizable as such.

if you wish to practice your gorean ways, no problem, you can even make a church and call it a religon fine, however, you will not use my tax dollars to do it

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/23/2009 2:16:42 PM

mnottertail

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Oh, a mere copper tarsk here, and a silver tarsk there.........not even enough to buy paga.

SaloonistHup

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/23/2009 7:44:26 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gromgor

It struck me earlier that the Gorean Philosophies and practices are similar to Taoism in that they are an inward and outward examination of self and surroundings and the interactions therein. With that principle in mind I am curious if any know of a movement to have a Gorean based religious/philosophy movement involving making into a legal entity the Gorean life. If L. Ron. Hubbard can make his books into a religion then a precedent has been set for modern day literature to be transformed and recognized and protected under the laws, given priveledges through those laws and afforded opportunities to set up meeting places (similar to churches) that were recognizable as such.

if you wish to practice your gorean ways, no problem, you can even make a church and call it a religon fine, however, you will not use my tax dollars to do it

First he'd have to be Gorean--or at least have some clue what that means.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/23/2009 7:57:01 PM >

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 9/23/2009 7:48:17 PM

Unbuilder

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Howdy,

reading your reply to Gromgor, I had to laugh. You speak of *your* tax dollars as though... they were sacrosanct or something...

Church property is exempt from taxation... the burden of building and maintaining streets and sidewalks that make the church accessible falls on the residents in the area, or in this age of federal support for local needs... on the taxpayers in general. Does this mean that *your* tax dollars are supporting someone else's religious convictions? ..... welllll.... yeah.

It don't stop there, in the last... 9 months... the US government has supplied....1.5 trillion dollars (?) in bailout money... so that big banks and big insurance companies and big business didn't go bankrupt because of bad management, and how many of those tax dollars went to performance bonuses to high placed executives??

To put that into perspective, the GDP of the United States is... 13.75 billion or so...which means that... if every single producer in the United States is ok with the idea of contributing the next 5-6 weeks of every single penny that their work earns, we can as a group fund the bonuses to those top executives without passing on any debt to our children or grandchildren.

I dunno about anyone else...but I reckon...that in... 5 weeks... the cupboards will be bare, the electric company will have not only shut off the power, they'll have scrapped the power lines that used to supply electricity to the place that I live. The water company will be selling water to...Saudi Arabia or someplace...

But that ain't gonna happen...Congress is gonna pass that debt on to... our children and grandchildren, and the creditors are gonna be content with that.... as long as we continue to make the annual juice payments.

I happen to like my children... and my grandchildren, and to be honest... I can't think of a single reason why they should pay a single penny so that some number cruncher gets.... a 13 million dollar bonus.

I think it would be much better if I was allowed... 15 minutes with the fuck ups that needed the bailout funds... and the even bigger fuck ups in the house and senate that not only spent *my* tax dollars... but spent tax dollars that they expect my grandchildren to pay.... like... those aren't *real* tax dollars.

Get real dude!!! your tax dollars are gonna get spent where ever those who are charged with administration of that revenue decide.

Reality sucks.... donnit

Eat shit and howl at the moon

Unbuilder

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 12/2/2009 4:21:26 PM

Qorvas

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Just my two bits here;

But I would say that the ultimate philosophy of any Gorean would be to live well. Simple as that.
No religion or all encompassing philosophy required.

Sad that such a simple and *clean* lesson is lost on so many human beings in this day and age.

Regards

Qorvas

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 12/2/2009 7:04:07 PM

starshineowned

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quote:

But I would say that the ultimate philosophy of any Gorean would be to live well. Simple as that.
No religion or all encompassing philosophy required.

Sad that such a simple and *clean* lesson is lost on so many human beings in this day and age.

Greetings..

The only difficulty with something so simple and clean is that interpretations of what it means to live well become evident, and worse is the diversity in natures that brought persons to their respective thoughts of them living well.

I am not quite sure as to how you are using it though in regards to "lost on so many human beings" Master Qorvas. Is it in the sense that they can't find the forest for the trees or in the sense that they have never been lucky enough to even view the trees because of others bids of greed to live well at all costs?

starshine

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 12/10/2009 8:40:59 AM

MAWarGod

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Tal Tim

I thought it was a good read, I feel You and others touched on Many points that not only stated fact but made Me think.. I may return to this thread with a bit more to add, as for now I will just set and read forward to see if some of the questions and statements I may have are posted by others as well..

Be Well
Robert

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 1/8/2010 8:30:04 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

quote:

In fact, quite the opposite. The "Initiates" on Gor are clueless as the reality of their "Priest-Kings," who are an advanced species, not gods. An Initiate presuming to condemn a "blasphemer" to death is himself consumed in flame (via their technology). Initiates use "religion" to help placate the simplistic in the masses. It's a comment on the mentality of humanity.

One interesting thing about this is that the old Vikings and also the Romans and Greek and several other ancient cultures did not see their Gods as Spiritual beings, but rather as more powerful, more advanced creatures who could give humanity punishment or boons. This is most evident with the Viking faith. They saw the Gods as having tribes and being like them self just with great powers. By such a view on Gods the Priest Kings would definitely be Gods.

quote:

Taoism, remember, is not technically a religion either--there are no gods, just philosophies for living in accord with nature, with Tao. In this regard, yes, it's similar to Gor in terms of examining the order of nature, but just as there's no Taoist church on the corner, there's no such thing in Gor.

I do not agree with this. There are several definitions as to what a religion is, and one of them yes is that it is worshiping of a God or Gods. I however hold more to the definition that a religion is communicating with or including the Spiritual in ones life. But off course is is a matter of individual taste as to which definition one which to use.

I wish you well

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RE: Gor as a religious movement? - 1/8/2010 8:35:49 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

I think that one can definitely make a religion based on Gorean philosophy with imagery from the books. The books have a powerful philosophy and enough context in the books to construct a good religion from it. Now constructing a religion might sound a bit strange I know. I am a Chaote, it is what we do so please bare with me. One can also include Gorean philosophy in many religion, like Taoism or several Pagan religions and so on. In addition one can definitely see about anything in a Spiritual light. However the Gorean lifestyle is not in an off itself a religion, though it can easy be made into on if that is what one wish.

P.S. Note when I say creating a religion I am referring to creating a personal religion not a religious institution with loads of followers. One can do that to, but that is allot harder and not that advisable.

I wish you well

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