RE: Dying well

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RE: Dying well

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RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 1:07:20 PM

Jill805

Posts: 83
Joined: 4/3/2006
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I am facing what you are all talking about. I am terminally ill with secondary breast cancer which is now invading my bones. My demise is not iminent although I do not know how much longer I have. I have no choice whether or not this cancer kills me - it will. However, I DO have a choice as to how I live the remainder of my days and I choose to do this without whining and to enjoy what I can of each day that is left to me in my own way.

Being terminally ill is a freedom in a kind of way. The normal rules of society no longer apply If I break these rules, what are 'they' going to do to me! Good job I am a law abiding citizen, 'course I could change my mind about that hehehe!

Just my thoughts but we all get there in the end........

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 21

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 1:35:16 PM

Mitzie

Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
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Good on you Jill

no amount of saying sorry to hear this ect will help but my advice is live and try and do everything you can in the time you have left.

My partner while in the hospice a couple of weeks before he died made seperate videos for those close to him and I treasure the video and sometimes I will pluck up the courage to watch the video and it does help me because of his words and what he tells me to do ect.

take care and as I say do as much as you can and try and enjoy.

Mitzie

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG

(in reply to Jill805)

Post #: 22

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 2:02:54 PM

amelliagrace

Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
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Thanks to each of your for sharing. I'm going to be out of town for about a week, and will read up and reply to posts as soon as possible after returning to home or PC access, which ever comes first. At that point, I'll share a bit about why I started this thread.

As for myself...
I believe I'll have died well, if I do not die before I am dead, wringing every possible bit of life and adventure from each moment, having lived a life that leaves me with no signifigant regrets, with everyone I love knowing and hearing that I do. My further goal is that when my own time comes, to pass with an attitude that is gracious and peaceful, full of humor - and that for the benefit of myself and those who love me.

Have a stupendous Labor Day weekend, everyone -
Grace

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 23

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 3:24:51 PM

Rule

Posts: 7806
Joined: 12/5/2005
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You are at war, Jill. If you are going to die anyway, then do go all out: try to kill those aberrant cells like they are trying to kill you. Pray. Swallow arsenicum. Take medication that cause you to get high fever. Exercize. Try to get aneamia, for those cancer cells do need oxygen; if they do not get any, they will stop growing or die. Get your physician to be inventive. There are substances that cause blood vessels to stop growing. Do anything to make life hard for those cancer cells.

< Message edited by Rule -- 9/3/2009 3:25:39 PM >

(in reply to Jill805)

Post #: 24

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 4:05:54 PM

Mitzie

Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
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Rule she is terminal

dont tell her she must exercise ect

you take in 2,00 calories the cancer needs 2,00 calories she should not battle what is terminal but accept it and live the time she has to do what she wants and if it means stuffing herself with cream donuts then go for it .

chemotherapy you take it then are ill and sick you start to recover and guess what time for another chemotherapy session you are ill and then you are sick do I need to repeat and go on?.

Its terminal you cannot alter that just take the quality time and use it.

Mitzie

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 25

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 6:30:31 PM

Louve00

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/1/2009
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Also Rule, while I know you mean well, anemia is definitely not good to recommend to a cancer patient. Aside from the fact most patients who are being treated become anemic from the treatment itself. Cancer thrives in an oxygen-depleted environment.

http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/cancer-prevention-measures.htm

My hope is that you enjoy each and every moment of the rest of your life, Jill.

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 26

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 7:12:05 PM

Dinnardin

Posts: 368
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I always thought Warren Zevon's reaction to his cancer was positive....it is just another adventure in life...so why not write some new songs?

John, AKA Dinnardin

(in reply to Louve00)

Post #: 27

RE: Dying well - 9/3/2009 8:29:54 PM

Saffleur

Posts: 247
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Lenoir NC
Status: offline

Tal Grace,

Dying well to me means that I have come full circle in life. I leave this world with no regrets (of which I have none in life now), with no discord in my family and those close to me (Something one always much work at regardless of their doing or others) and lastly, leaving behind no bills or debts that would affect those I love.

Death is an extremely unique topic as we don't know what's after it. That of course is defined by our beliefs. In dying well, I want to pass on with causing as little shedding of tears as possible.

I wish you well,
Scott

_____________________________

When we see men of worth, we should think of equaling them; when we see men of a contrary character, we should turn inward and examine ourselves.

(in reply to Louve00)

Post #: 28

RE: Dying well - 9/4/2009 5:29:56 AM

SweetNika

Posts: 955
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Forest Hills, Maryland
Status: offline

Dying well begins with my perspective on life and living well. I don’t think we can understand the meaning of life without facing death, since how we live often determines how we die.

_____________________________

Blessed be,
Nika

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 29

RE: Dying well - 9/4/2009 6:37:00 AM

xBullx

Posts: 3938
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

Hi Grace,

Considering the idea that practice makes perfect and I have not yet conceived a plan for real world training on this one, I suspect I'll fuck up the process and be stuck living on.

Living well....

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

While some people are ruled by emotion, I suspect you'll find that I'm rather obdurate.

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 30

RE: Dying well - 9/4/2009 8:52:49 AM

sweetgirlserves

Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

Thanks to each of your for sharing. I'm going to be out of town for about a week, and will read up and reply to posts as soon as possible after returning to home or PC access, which ever comes first. At that point, I'll share a bit about why I started this thread.

As for myself...
I believe I'll have died well, if I do not die before I am dead, wringing every possible bit of life and adventure from each moment, having lived a life that leaves me with no signifigant regrets, with everyone I love knowing and hearing that I do. My further goal is that when my own time comes, to pass with an attitude that is gracious and peaceful, full of humor - and that for the benefit of myself and those who love me.

Have a stupendous Labor Day weekend, everyone -
Grace

Hi Mistress Grace,

Funny, I actually had a similar thought to your OP but with a different twist to it.   A quote came to mind...

"Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live."    -Norman Cousins

I think I will stop myself here.

~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to amelliagrace)

Post #: 31

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 12:30:15 AM

Aswad

Posts: 6619
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mitzie

she should not battle what is terminal but accept it

How do you square this with defiance, as opposed to resignation and acceptance ?

This being the Gorean subforum and all. I certainly don't mean to be insensitive to Jill's situation; I'm asking you.

Once you stop fearing death, you can come out of terminal illness with a stalemate or better. The illness can kill you, but not break you, because death is an option you can choose, in a time and manner of your choosing. In that defiance, a partial victory can be achieved by denying "the enemy" a complete victory, and by going out as you are and wish to be at the end. One can argue that this is winning by changing the premise of victory, of course, but I would rather say it is anthropomorphizing, if anything.

It's related to what has been said elsewhere about death before enslavement.

That said, I'm not about to second Rule's approach, but yeah, there are actually ways to attack the cancer that the docs are not going to do, for the simple reason that it's as likely to kill you as your illness. Do no harm and all that. If death truly isn't feared, though, it can certainly be reasonable to go for an all-or-nothing approach, depending on how one is wired, as well as the options available. Killing off a whole cell line throughout the body makes little sense if the cancer is fully undifferentiated, or the cell line is a neuron type. Experiments with gallium compounds makes more sense when the cancer cells cluster. Modified rabies only makes sense for glioblastomas and the like. Lethal radiation levels are lots less pleasant than nearly lethal ones. Polonium pellets are usually hard to obtain without shielding. Radon gas tends to cluster in the lungs. Etc. Etc.

When your back is to the wall and the enemy is advancing from in front of you, the only question is ...
... will you soar through them or die trying, or will you wait for them to close the distance and run you through?

Finally, Rule does have one good point: the recorded cases of spontaneous remission from severe cancers are almost universally the consequence of sudden and massive immune response, such as after a nearly fatal infection, or when the immune system needs to kill legitimate cells by the boatload for some reason, or when some accidental or intentional act causes the cancer to be killed in a process that would normally kill the rest of the body (e.g. radiation poisoning), in that order, pretty much.

I can certainly see the point of trying to make the most of the time she has left.

Just pointing out that the alternative isn't invalid, either.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 32

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 12:49:48 AM

Hiskajirah

Posts: 929
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline

Greetings Mistress Grace

I would like to die with nothing heavy on my heart. I would like everything that needs to be said...said. I want everyone to let go of things they'd like to say to me before I go, everything. Too often in life those left behind regret deeply having never said something. Often times they never get over it. While the one passing will not necessarily be out anything, those surviving will be.

To me.. that will be dying well.

Respectfully,
~twinkle

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 33

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 1:12:41 AM

MsMillgrove

Posts: 254
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline

Having been beaten cancer once and again come very close by losing nearly all the blood in my body... I already had two versions of facing death, one slow, one very fast. In both cases I had the same attitude. I laughed. Not because i feel death is funny, but because i want to hear other people around me, laughing. i love the sound of laughter. When you laugh, others laugh with you. It's my way. When I go, I will be laughing.

And in the end, that is all each person has, their own way. Far too many people are forced in America by the attitudes of their physicians and their families to "fight".
If it's you, yes, fight with every fiber, but if it's not you, then I think you need the strength to assert that you will go in whatever way suits you. It's your death, you have the right to own it. It's your last adventure. Pack whatever you need and go forth into the light with courage on the path of your own choosing.

(in reply to Hiskajirah)

Post #: 34

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 5:24:49 AM

Mitzie

Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline

Hello Aswad

seeing as you asked me I will explain

1998 my partner had a cancerous oesophageal tumour and drastic surgery was suggested he was told with out an oesophagectomy he would be dead within 6 months so he had the operation and was in intensive care a couple of days for the rest of his time on earth he would never be able to lie flat or on his left hand side not he could eat or drink the same. twice his throat closed so he needed surgery to stretch it.

a couple of months later he was rushed to hospital with fluid on the lung and we was told that cancer cells had attatched to his chest cavity and that there was little they could do except pallative chemotherapy.

So of we go and he starts chemo he goes in waits then has the treatment he comes home is very sick and has to have anti nausea syringe driver he then finally starts to pick up and then wham time to go back for more chemo and inbetween these times more fluid on the lungs so yet another chest drain he was finally to weak for anymore pallative chemo and so we went to a hospice where we stayed 1month and 3 days until he passed away.

We talked a lot together and he clearly told me on more than one occasion if he had know what was to happen he would have NEVER had the oesophagectomy nor any chemo treatment his words where I would sooner have had 6 months quality time than a year like this.

Which is why I stated "she should not battle what is terminal but accept it and live the time she has to do what she wants and if it means stuffing herself with cream donuts then go for it ."

Roughly in 90% of cases terminal means just that and the illness you have is going to kill you.

I personally dont like pallative chemo because of what I have seen and experienced first hand.

Mitzie

< Message edited by Mitzie -- 9/5/2009 5:26:13 AM >

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 35

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 7:20:25 AM

Jill805

Posts: 83
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline

I wont stay here for long as I dont want to take over the thread which isnt really about me anyway. Just wanted to say thanks for all the relevant comments!

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 36

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 7:35:25 AM

Rule

Posts: 7806
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

FR

Yesterday I was told that my mom (86) has cancers in both breasts. I have a hypothesis as to the cause in her particular case, so that may offer some perspective.

(in reply to Jill805)

Post #: 37

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 7:43:09 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

cancerous oesophageal tumour

Mitzie,

Not all cancers are equal. Your partner contracted a particularly rapid and deadly kind.

Other cancers are quite treatable.

Sorry about your loss--but this is not a "one size fits all" experience.

I wish you well.

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 38

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 7:59:30 AM

Mitzie

Posts: 688
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline

Hello Tim

thank you,

I agree different cancers can be treated however when the word terminal comes into things then questions will arise ie how long is left and will anything lengthen the time and if so what can be done, when I was on the chemo ward it was quite an eye opener and very sad to see the pallative chemo treatments .

pallative chemo is not nice and is not a cure it just prolongs life by knocking the cancer back a little. I admit some treatment can help release some of the suffering.

My dad died feb this year xmas eve we was told he had lung bowel throat liver and potential brain cancer and was given a few months to live no treatment nor chemo was offered just pain medication a fall out of bed speeded his death and he died very very peacefully and not in any pain with close family around him he was 78.

_____________________________

"The free should not be slave, and the slave should not be free," he said. "I do not understand," she said. "Just as it is wrong for the properly free to be enslaved," he said, "so, too, it is wrong for the properly enslaved to be free."PoG

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 39

RE: Dying well - 9/5/2009 8:06:18 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

There is a very telling commercial here in TN about a woman who was told she had terminal cancer and had 6 months to live. She went and got another opinion and when the doctor came in she asked -- how long do i have. And the doctor said, Mary, we did every type of test on you we could, and not in one test did we find a meter on the bottom of your foot with an expiration date.

While yes, sometimes quality versus quantity is good, but also, there is no expiration date on anyone that can or should be deciphered by another. I know children at St. Judes whose parents were told they had a year or so and the child ends up living 5 or going into remission.

You just never know and to me the concept of terminal should never be a concept of expiration date. But terminal should mean people choose to how they want to face the future no matter what it brings.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Mitzie)

Post #: 40

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