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RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 8:07:17 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 6618
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

sorry if my reply comes off a bit pissy, but , well, for some reason, your logic made me a bit pissy.


Actually following her logic might help.

The "is okay" part was conditional on the "made a crap choice" part.

quote:

the implication that some deserve it more than others, well, i just do not agree.


Disagreement noted and entered into the records... or were you looking to debate it?

If so, it needs more elaboration as to what you mean. Hitler might not have deserved death any more than your dad did, but from a purely emotional perspective, I think a lot of people might be inclined to disagree. Qualifying the statement further would help to make it clear if that is what you were implying and, if so, then on what grounds...

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 8:21:32 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 35843
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, we all deserve death.

If a man live;
it is a certainty he will die............

anyone care to attempt a refutation of that tautology?

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 9:14:53 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

death will get us all, no matter what we are a slave to, be it healthy or unhealthy


Death is a natural part of life which begins at birth. People can choose to simply live life which results in death. Death simply ends life, it doesn't control life unless you allow it to, and then yeah, maybe you would be a slave to death.

Until you are dead, you are not dead, you are in your life. IF you choose live as if you are dead, then only you can be the blame. Living like you are dying is not living for death, but recognizing that death is the end of life and do what you want and can until that time. In the end, death is simply the result of birth.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 9/13/2009 9:20:07 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 10:22:49 AM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

Whooooo-hooooooooo! I'll bring a keg of mead! You inspired me to participate here, Ron, for which some will likely not thank you. ;-D

When I was younger, I spent far too many years trying to contort myself & my life to meet the standards & expectations of others. I was miserable.

As I grew wiser, I ceased using the 'yardsticks' of others & developed my own means of evaluating my life, my choices & my direction. I was much happier.

I have continued to make mistakes & bad choices. I happen to value them a great deal. They are the tartness of life that so accentuates the sweetness. They lend balance, adversity & challenge to my days & save me from that endless numbing haze of nirvana. ;-P

I smoke, drink, eat REAL butter & home-made pastries. My health & fitness reflects those choices, mostly negatively. But I decide what portion of my health (or waistline) I am willing to trade for the moments of sensual luxury I savor eating Un's homebaked bread slathered with butter.

What do I gain by depriving myself of the vices, luxuries & indulgences I so enjoy? A couple more years of an austere life & a trimmer waistline? I'd be more miserable than it'd be worth.

I survived one battle with cancer, long ago. Before I had the staples pulled, I began losing loved ones to the beast. Within 7 years, I lost 11 people & only 3 went in a manner/setting of their own choosing. Those experiences have changed me & my view of life.

I now treat life like a ripe, sunwarm peach -- I grab it up with both hands, sink my teeth in fully & let the juice run down my chin. It's not important to catch every drop....just to relish them, be they in my mouth or on my chin!

I intend to die much the same way. Should I have some warning, I will plan mad parties, sky-diving trips & sweaty orgies of laughter with the people whose minds (& bodies) most thrill me. When I can no longer enjoy such treasures under my own steam, I will take a long walk late at night in some cold mountain forest & find a tree to nap beneath.

Should I go suddenly & unexpectedly, well....I hope the excitement of the event that causes it is well-remembered by many! ;-D

I will expect my loved ones (that's ya'll who are my friends & you know who ya are!) to have one hell of a big bonfire & party & talk about what a ferocious bitch I was for friends, for beliefs, for sun-warm peaches & for life.

I'm not sure why, but death to me has little meaning except as a line in the sands of life demarcating where physicality's reign ends & spirituality's reign begins. IF there's a tunnel with lights at the other end....DON'T go to the big white light!! Step to the right & wait for me...we will all catch up there eventually & form our own kaleidascopic conglomeration of life-lights. ;-D

Until then, I wish you enough,

~Kimveri



Hello Mistress Kimveri,
You know I respect you a great deal, but I will stick my neck out there and respond to you... it is sad to think that you would be *miserable* without smoking and drinking and slathering butter on homemade bread on a regular basis.     Personally, I am miserable when I am walking around with 10 or more extra pounds on me... nothing makes me feel more miserable than being overweight and feeling my pants crawl up my asscheeks or try to button pants that are too tight.   And once I get past a certain size number of clothes, it makes me miserable to have to buy the next size up.  So for me, while I choose to enjoy a pastry or chocolate or something like that, I use those as a 'treat' to myself on occassion rather than something to indulge in on a regular basis because, for me, the trade off of the long-endured misery of being overweight (and the hell you have to go through to get it off), just isn't worth the few moments of ecstasy on my tastebuds.


I understand smokers being *miserable* trying to live without cigarettes,   or alcoholics being *miserable* trying to live without alcohol.  Being addicted to something takes away ones freedom to 'choose' not to be miserable without it... at least until one is able to overcome the addiction.  

One who simply enjoys an occassional cigarette or an occassional drink will not find themselves feeling miserable without it.

~sgs

< Message edited by sweetgirlserves -- 9/13/2009 10:38:58 AM >

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 11:39:46 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

quote:

Well, we all deserve death.

If a man live;
it is a certainty he will die............

anyone care to attempt a refutation of that tautology?

Ron


I do not care what I deserve or not. But I refuse to accept that we are born to die. Science is nearing a way to stop aging, and there are many spiritual paths with this goal. Death might be likely, but I do not think it is a unavoidable thing. Hell I decided when I was a child that I would live forever or die trying.

I wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 11:51:05 AM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

Hello Mistress Kimveri,
You know I respect you a great deal, but I will stick my neck out there and respond to you... it is sad to think that you would be *miserable* without smoking and drinking and slathering butter on homemade bread on a regular basis.     Personally, I am miserable when I am walking around with 10 or more extra pounds on me... nothing makes me feel more miserable than being overweight and feeling my pants crawl up my asscheeks or try to button pants that are too tight.   And once I get past a certain size number of clothes, it makes me miserable to have to buy the next size up.  So for me, while I choose to enjoy a pastry or chocolate or something like that, I use those as a 'treat' to myself on occassion rather than something to indulge in on a regular basis because, for me, the trade off of the long-endured misery of being overweight (and the hell you have to go through to get it off), just isn't worth the few moments of ecstasy on my tastebuds.


I understand smokers being *miserable* trying to live without cigarettes,   or alcoholics being *miserable* trying to live without alcohol.  Being addicted to something takes away ones freedom to 'choose' not to be miserable without it... at least until one is able to overcome the addiction.  

One who simply enjoys an occassional cigarette or an occassional drink will not find themselves feeling miserable without it.

~sgs


Greetings sgs,

While your post is directed to Mistress Kimeri, I hope you would be willing to reply to a question it raised in me when reading it.

I noticed that when you are discussing the reasons why you would feel bad about being overweight you do not mention the fact that you would be unhealthy, but instead emphasis the fact that your clothes wouldn't fit.
If the only reason for you to watch your weight is a cultural ideal concerning looks instead of your own personal ideal of health, then are you not a slave to public opinion as much as a smoker is a slave to cigarettes? At least a smoker in some cases can make the conscious decision to *want* to be addicted. (Like me for example, Master doesn't allow me to smoke, and I have quit smoking over a year ago, I don't have trouble with cravings to cigarettes anymore, but when allowed to, I would start smoking again simple because I liked smoking and am willing to sacrifice my health in that regard to fulfill that hedonistic pleasure.)

People who are a slave to public opinion rarely choose their own addictions... at least not as far as I have seen...
Who would you consider to be most free? The people choosing their own addictions for whatever reason or the people following what others think are the right and wrong addictions in one’s life?

Did you choose to watch your weight out of concerns for your looks or for your health?
If health is your main concern, is this reflected in the rest of your lifestyle choices?
Do you lead and active life, exercise a lot? Are you concerned with the healthiness of your food or simple with the calories? Being thin by itself is not a guaranty of health, one can eat very little and still be very unhealthy because certain vitamins or nutrition are lacking. One can also be thin and eat healthy but still be in very bad shape because one just does not exercise a lot. It is also possible to indulge often in eating unhealthy food and still be healthy and fit if one eats a balanced diet and exercise a lot...

Personally I feel that the only way a lifestyle choice can make you a slave to someone or something is when that lifestyle choice is not your own personal choose but instead determined by an outside force...
I'm not a slave because I'm smoking right now... I'm a slave because I'm NOT smoking....

I wish you well,

ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 9/13/2009 11:53:27 AM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 12:44:28 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Hello, sgs,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
You know I respect you a great deal, but I will stick my neck out there and respond to you...


I'm not sure why your response to me is seen as opposing your respect for me....could you explain that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
it is sad to think that you would be *miserable* without smoking and drinking and slathering butter on homemade bread on a regular basis.


I think it's sad that you would assume some degree of "regularity" for my indulgences. You may be mistaken, you know. Also, daring to express pity -- your sadness for my misery without these indulgences -- is offensive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
Personally, I am miserable when I am walking around with 10 or more extra pounds on me... nothing makes me feel more miserable than being overweight and feeling my pants crawl up my asscheeks or try to button pants that are too tight.   And once I get past a certain size number of clothes, it makes me miserable to have to buy the next size up.


Perhaps you should re-think your habit of measuring others' lives, appearances & choices by your own personal preferences?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
I understand smokers being *miserable* trying to live without cigarettes,   or alcoholics being *miserable* trying to live without alcohol. 


Choosing to indulge a vice is NOT 'automatically' an "addiction". I am NOT an "addict" because I choose to smoke or drink or eat baked goods or have sex occassionally.

Yet again, your assumptive manner of measuring everyone else by your own narrow personal views is offensive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
Being addicted to something takes away ones freedom to 'choose' not to be miserable without it...


...Sounds like slavery to me... So, are you an 'addict'? Are you 'addicted' to male dominance? Mastery? ...or have you "overcome" that?

Understand something, sgs, I am not angry with you. I simply find your inability to set aside the experiences, conditioning & ingrained values of your upbringing to be a major impediment here. Add to that, your condescension & pity for people who do not choose to meet your own standards & you have an offensive position on this topic. This does not mean that you are offensive as a person, only that your position, as stated herein, is offensive.

Generalized, 'blanket' statements, like the one below, are not only false, but they are merely your opinions, NOT "facts".

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
One who simply enjoys an occassional cigarette or an occassional drink will not find themselves feeling miserable without it.


...."in your opinion".

See, what is "occassional"? For some that may mean once a month, for others, once a year. What is "miserable"? For some that may simply mean that the craving for the danish merely distracts from their desired focus...OR it may mean that they experience an anxiety attack.

Either way, who are you to decide which is worthy of a blanket statement of pity & condescension or of compassion & acceptance? The uncomfortable truth may be that your opinion matters not at all....except to you.

So....contentious topic matter aside....when we doing lunch? ;-D

Take care,

~Kimveri

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 12:54:02 PM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

Greetings sgs,

While your post is directed to Mistress Kimeri, I hope you would be willing to reply to a question it raised in me when reading it.

I noticed that when you are discussing the reasons why you would feel bad about being overweight you do not mention the fact that you would be unhealthy, but instead emphasis the fact that your clothes wouldn't fit.
If the only reason for you to watch your weight is a cultural ideal concerning looks instead of your own personal ideal of health, then are you not a slave to public opinion as much as a smoker is a slave to cigarettes?



Hi ishy...  not sure how you made the mental jump from me feeling miserable when my clothes don't fit to caring about public opinion regarding looks.   I was always a thin person, and my body is a small frame, so when I gain weight, it makes me feel miserable... mentally and physically.  I had gained weight and I felt tired all of the time, my back and hips hurt, and I felt miserable.   Plus, yes, tight clothes are very uncomfortable and that makes me miserable too.  Now I keep my weight around 130lbs for a 5'2" frame, so I am fairly certain public opinion would tell me I could still lose a few pounds. *smiles*  

For me, maintaining a decent weight is about being healthy (heart disease, high cholesterol and high blood pressure run in my family)... which translates to feeling better physically (more energy, less aches and pains, etc)  and about looking good too.  I, like most woman, like to be found to be attractive and appealing to both myself and to others.   It seems a strange coincidence that when I think I am attractive, others seem to think I am too... and vice versa. 





quote:

At least a smoker in some cases can make the conscious decision to *want* to be addicted. (Like me for example, Master doesn't allow me to smoke, and I have quit smoking over a year ago, I don't have trouble with cravings to cigarettes anymore, but when allowed to, I would start smoking again simple because I liked smoking and am willing to sacrifice my health in that regard to fulfill that hedonistic pleasure.)



Kind of like the FW standing on the high bridge 'want' to be a slave... do you consider them Free?   I think that is a nice attempt to put a spin on it, but a person who 'wants' to be controlled by something (alcohol, drugs, cigarettes), in my opinion, is a person who is a slave to that thing which they want to control them.   


quote:

People who are a slave to public opinion rarely choose their own addictions... at least not as far as I have seen...
Who would you consider to be most free? The people choosing their own addictions for whatever reason or the people following what others think are the right and wrong addictions in one’s life?


Choosing to be addicted to and controlled by something other than oneself vs. having someone else choose something to control you...    hmmm... they both result in the person being controlled by something other than themselves, correct?   I don't call either of those situations being 'free'.  

quote:

Did you choose to watch your weight out of concerns for your looks or for your health?
If health is your main concern, is this reflected in the rest of your lifestyle choices?
Do you lead and active life, exercise a lot? Are you concerned with the healthiness of your food or simple with the calories? Being thin by itself is not a guaranty of health, one can eat very little and still be very unhealthy because certain vitamins or nutrition are lacking. One can also be thin and eat healthy but still be in very bad shape because one just does not exercise a lot. It is also possible to indulge often in eating unhealthy food and still be healthy and fit if one eats a balanced diet and exercise a lot...


I don't really know where you are going with this... Personally, I eat healthy, exercise, and my doctor said a few months ago that I am in better shape physically than I have been in years... so I guess I am doing something right. 

quote:

Personally I feel that the only way a lifestyle choice can make you a slave to someone or something is when that lifestyle choice is not your own personal choose but instead determined by an outside force...


So... a FW standing on a high bridge that is 'captured' and made a slave is not really a slave because she made the choice to stand on the high bridge and be made a slave?     And in regards to your own slavery... you are saying that the only way you are a slave to your Master is because you personally choose to be His slave... not because he (the outside force) compels you to be his slave?   I am sure you will probably want to rethink that.  *smiles*

A person who stands on the bridge and begs to become addicted to nicotine, alcohol, or drugs because they 'choose' to, is just as much a slave to nicotine, drugs or alcohol as the person who was 'forced' to smoke, drink, etc.  Since I don't think too many people were force-fed cigarettes, or had multiple bottles of alcohol 'forced' down their throat,  it seems likely that most addicted people we have today became addicted via their own volition, and thus begged the collar themselves.  In the end, they are still just another addict.


quote:

I'm not a slave because I'm smoking right now... I'm a slave because I'm NOT smoking....


You're not a slave to nicotine right now, you're a slave to Master Bull.   Good choice!   *smiles*

I wish you well,

ishy


_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to ishyB)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 3:02:41 PM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

Hello, sgs,


I'm not sure why your response to me is seen as opposing your respect for me....could you explain that?


umm... no.   *smiles*   I was just stating an opinion that was different than yours and I wanted you to know that it wasn't out of any sort of disrespect.


quote:

I think it's sad that you would assume some degree of "regularity" for my indulgences. You may be mistaken, you know. Also, daring to express pity -- your sadness for my misery without these indulgences -- is offensive.


Mistress, you stated that you would be miserable without them.  That to me is a rather strong word.  But you are right that I assumed more than what you wrote.   I do pity people who are addicted to smoking.  Perhaps I shouldn't, but I do... because I understand that is not a habit that is easily broken, and it is one of the deadliest habits there is.  But I apologize for offending you.


quote:

Perhaps you should re-think your habit of measuring others' lives, appearances & choices by your own personal preferences?


I generally try really hard not to do this anymore.  It definitely is something I grew up with, and it is a 'way of viewing the world' that I constantly have to try break that way of looking at things.  That aside though, I think there are some issues that can be looked at rather objectively, and addiction is one of those issues, imo.

quote:

Choosing to indulge a vice is NOT 'automatically' an "addiction". I am NOT an "addict" because I choose to smoke or drink or eat baked goods or have sex occassionally.


Of course, I agree.  However, I would say a person is an addict if they cannot choose not to... or not without tremendous withdrawals, etc.


quote:

Yet again, your assumptive manner of measuring everyone else by your own narrow personal views is offensive.


Again, I apologize for being offensive.  I appreciate you pointing it out... it helps me to work on it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
Being addicted to something takes away ones freedom to 'choose' not to be miserable without it...

...Sounds like slavery to me... So, are you an 'addict'? Are you 'addicted' to male dominance? Mastery? ...or have you "overcome" that?


I think I am probably one of the worst addicts out there, and I get your point.   As much as it has cost me, as much as it absolutely sucks sometimes, I can't seem to overcome it... and that is probably because deep down at my core, I don't want to. 


quote:

Understand something, sgs, I am not angry with you. I simply find your inability to set aside the experiences, conditioning & ingrained values of your upbringing to be a major impediment here. Add to that, your condescension & pity for people who do not choose to meet your own standards & you have an offensive position on this topic. This does not mean that you are offensive as a person, only that your position, as stated herein, is offensive.

Generalized, 'blanket' statements, like the one below, are not only false, but they are merely your opinions, NOT "facts".

"ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves
One who simply enjoys an occassional cigarette or an occassional drink will not find themselves feeling miserable without it."

...."in your opinion".

See, what is "occassional"? For some that may mean once a month, for others, once a year. What is "miserable"? For some that may simply mean that the craving for the danish merely distracts from their desired focus...OR it may mean that they experience an anxiety attack.

Either way, who are you to decide which is worthy of a blanket statement of pity & condescension or of compassion & acceptance? The uncomfortable truth may be that your opinion matters not at all....except to you.


I learned a while ago that my opinions don't matter to others at all... only to myself.  And honestly, long ago that would have driven me insane.... *smiles*, but now I don't mind at all and in fact, find that rather comforting for some reason.    But thank you again for pointing out my 'flawed logic'.    I appreciate your willingness to take of your time to 'straighten me out'. !  


quote:

So....contentious topic matter aside....when we doing lunch? ;-D

I would love to do lunch with you Mistress.  Whenever you have some time, it would be an honor.

Sincerely,
~sgs




< Message edited by sweetgirlserves -- 9/13/2009 3:05:08 PM >

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 6:00:17 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Hi, sgs,

I think the disconnect here is in your choice to view ALL indulgences as "addictions" when they may be merely an occassional choice, or a matter of habit. Choices can be unmade or altered & habits broken. Addictions, however, are another matter.

This is where we part ways. I do not view the freely chosen decisions or habits of others as "addictions" to which they are slaves simply because I might be susceptible. I have many years of intimate personal knowledge of the circumstances & consequences of addiction. I guard myself against allowing my habits & indulgences to become anything more than a choice I make.

I also do not assume that someone else's habit of ...ohhh, let's say drinking a couple beers each evening...is an 'addiction' merely because it was for my mother. The fact that I do not deal well with people who are drunk does not mean that the drunk person is the problem. It's just as likely that my inability to cope is the problem.

Keep in mind, also, that when I say "miserable" that may have different connotations for me than it does for you. We ALL view life through the lenses of our own experiences. It's natural that we would also view death in that intensely personal way. What constitutes "misery" for me when I was 25 is no longer the same now that I'm 46. Now, while I require less to experience joy, my tolerance for those things which intrude upon my joys is considerably reduced.

The idiot on the 95 talking on her cellphone while doing 55 in the fast lane causes much misery for me by delaying me on the way home on those nights when Un's bread is muchly anticipated. My idea of "misery" is anything I dislike which I am forced to tolerate, even briefly. For some, this would not be "misery", just aggravating. For others, particularly those who have immersed themselves in this sort of behavior, this is nothing more than one teensy additional inconvenience in a sea of such that they have come to accept as their mileu. They have, in my opinion, compromised their joys.

I refuse to do that in my life. I refuse to give ground to the apathy & the indifference. I will die as I have lived -- seeking joys & rejecting, sometimes forcefully, that which interferes with my joys.

From that perspective, a habitual glass of wine, a choice to smoke a cigar every Sunday, an extra slice of home-baked bread with REAL butter, is not some sort of monstrous "addiction" to be avoided at ALL costs. These are simply joys of living.

We each choose what brings us joy, we each choose how we pursue those joys. Even those who choose NOT to pursue their joys....that choice has it's costs. All choices have their costs. It doesn't matter what others may think of our choices -- if they love us they will have to endure some portion of the costs for our choices regardless of what their opinion may be. If they do not love us then their opinions cannot affect us & they will likely bear little cost for our choices.

The only thing that matters is can each of us pay the costs for our choices?

Death brings such a question into razor-sharp focus. Are there choices in your life whose cost is unbearable? Do what you must to ease that. Are there choices you failed to make because you feared the cost? Dare to choose, dare to pay the cost........dare to live.

That's how I want to die.....while daring to live.

Well wishes,

~Kimveri

Ahh, by the way...

The house-hunting MAY have come to a conclusion, so time should be available for indulgences like lunch out...you've still got the number, right?

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Dying well - 9/13/2009 7:37:53 PM   
amelliagrace


Posts: 1792
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
Ron and Kim -
You've both given me much to smile about, and some loverly ideas as well!

Hugs to the both of you -
Gracie


(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Dying well - 9/14/2009 6:04:28 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 3072
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad


Disagreement noted and entered into the records... or were you looking to debate it?

If so, it needs more elaboration as to what you mean. Hitler might not have deserved death any more than your dad did, but from a purely emotional perspective, I think a lot of people might be inclined to disagree. Qualifying the statement further would help to make it clear if that is what you were implying and, if so, then on what grounds...

Health,
al-Aswad.



not looking to debate, just stating my opinion.

another opinion of mine would be that comparing hitlers bad choices to someone who smokes or drinks regularly or occasionally, defies any logic that i can compute.

i just feel that someone who dies gracefully, whether they be dying of cancer after a lifetime of bad choices or dying of cancer due to genetics we do not yet understand, each deserve the respect of those left behind for facing the inevitable with an attitude of peace and acceptance and faith and a few other words that escape me at the moment.

of course, i also have respect for the person who fights tooth and nail to live and not give in.  we all make choices on how we live daily, and to some extent, i think we will choose how we die.

it just offends me that sgs implied there is only one way to live that makes it possible to die well.  i am sure she sticks by her opinion on that, as i do mine.

cant say who is right, just we see things through different eyes.

great thread though, has made me think about many things.

_____________________________

Scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue. Realize the strength; move on. ~Henry Rollins


We don't remember days, we remember moments.
Cesar Pavese

Talk to me in 20 years.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Dying well - 9/14/2009 7:21:50 PM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

it just offends me that sgs implied there is only one way to live that makes it possible to die well.  i am sure she sticks by her opinion on that, as i do mine.

cant say who is right, just we see things through different eyes.

great thread though, has made me think about many things.



Really...?    What one way did I say that one has to live in order to die well?  

~sgs

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"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 2:04:48 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 3072
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

it just offends me that sgs implied there is only one way to live that makes it possible to die well.  i am sure she sticks by her opinion on that, as i do mine.

cant say who is right, just we see things through different eyes.

great thread though, has made me think about many things.



Really...?    What one way did I say that one has to live in order to die well?  

~sgs


quote:

  For example, to die of lung cancer because you were never able to conquer your smoking addiction... to me that is not dying well.

To die of illnesses associated with drugs, drinking, smoking, etc... is not dying well.   Those were all things you could have gained control over and didn't, and therefore you die as its victim.  Slave to the substance.



_____________________________

Scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue. Realize the strength; move on. ~Henry Rollins


We don't remember days, we remember moments.
Cesar Pavese

Talk to me in 20 years.

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 9:07:45 AM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 255
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

it just offends me that sgs implied there is only one way to live that makes it possible to die well.  i am sure she sticks by her opinion on that, as i do mine.

cant say who is right, just we see things through different eyes.

great thread though, has made me think about many things.



Really...?    What one way did I say that one has to live in order to die well?  

~sgs


quote:

  For example, to die of lung cancer because you were never able to conquer your smoking addiction... to me that is not dying well.

To die of illnesses associated with drugs, drinking, smoking, etc... is not dying well.   Those were all things you could have gained control over and didn't, and therefore you die as its victim.  Slave to the substance.






Above I mentioned one way to not die well, in my opinion.   You stated that I said 'There is only one way to live which makes it possible to die well".       Really?   What is it.  The quote you copied above does not mention one way to live to die well.   It mentions one way, in my opinion, to not die well.


~sgs

_____________________________

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." ~Maya Angelou

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 1:16:24 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Im curious.... in this discussion of dying well...just how many of you have faced your own mortality..not the concept of dying but waited for the next breath.. and then crawled for the next breath... sunk down into the inevitable darkness ... In this discussion of dying well how many of you have touched the end of your life line..even for a moment?

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“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to sweetgirlserves)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 1:54:59 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Unless but for a moment, I doubt you'll get many takers there.  Its obvious one will not know how they face death til they face it.  Also is it obvious that all the healthy living in the world wouldn't have a bit of matter if you had a head on collision in an automobile...or faced some other quick and untimely death.  In fact, as this thread has been going on, I have been thinking that it is not the one who dies that is summing up his life as to how he lived it.  Its his peers and 'left-behinds' that will sum him up.  I do admit his contributions to his life through its course will matter, but the actual determinations will be by others.

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 1:59:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 35843
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		On dying well,

My mother always made me change my underwear, because she didn't want skid marks in them should I have been in a car accident (so as not to embarrass the mortician, I suppose).

So, in any car accident, or near death experience I have been involved in over my lifetime, I try to shit my pants as a talisman.

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 2:07:09 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		LOL.  (what would your mother say!!)

_____________________________

For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearance, as though they were realities and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are. - Niccolo Machiavelli

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Dying well - 9/15/2009 2:08:54 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 35843
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Dunno, I have not crossed that rubicon yet, so I am not provided an opportunity to glean her view on the subject.

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 100
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