Men ????????? a slave's love

Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account

As the Collar Turns:

Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home Login Search

Espanol

Deutsch

Francais

Italiano

Portugues

Men ????????? a slave's love

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Men ????????? a slave's love

Page: [1]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 7:18:41 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

We have hashed out quite a few different views of love on the boards lately. A Master's love for his slave, a slave loving her Master etc.

However, i was wondering if we can take a different angle and perhaps look at the idea of a Man ??????? a slave's love. Need, want, desire, expect, demand, etc etc. How does a Man fill in the blank? How do slaves?

Usually in the course of mastery and enslavement of a woman by a Man who knows what to do with her, there is a undeniable fact it seems that the woman will fall in love with the Man they seem to go hand in hand. Men don't need slaves to be Gorean, but most Men i know who are Gorean somehow incorporate slavery or wish to into their lives. If they are Men who master women they more than likely will know the women will fall in love with them. Based on this aspect, do Men who own slaves actually in some way need a slave's love? Is that why they master them so completely? Do they feel if a slave does not love them that they own, have they somehow not completely mastered her? Do they desire a slave's love because of some inherent idea of completeness? Do they demand it as their do and if so, does this not impress some idea of it is a need? Does this result in some ways impact Men in their want of a slave? Do you think some men decide to master slaves because they want to be loved? Does the men see this love as something to treasure, just a natural result of being mastered, as some sort of acceptance etc? Do they sometimes feel guilty if they do not strive to reciprocate the love of a slave girl?

How does the Man who owns a slave look at his slave's love for him? How does he relate it back to himself and her place in his life? What do the slave's believe their love is seen as by the Men who own them?

This is a different angle to the love thang, and i am not sure if i am stating it understandably, but its not a rehash of the other threads, its a different aspect of love.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 3/2/2006 7:23:07 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

Post #: 1

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 7:22:47 AM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

methinks it is a fulfillment for both the M/s.
a master feeds off his slaves desire to please and i think they master woman b/c it is their natural right to do so.
it goes back to that primal instinctual feeling of what is right

will try to answer more later
great topic angel

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

We have hashed out quite a few different views of love on the boards lately. A Master's love for his slave, a slave loving her Master etc.

However, i was wondering if we can take a different angle and perhaps look at the idea of a Man ??????? a slave's love. Need, want, desire, expect, demand, etc etc. How does a Man fill in the blank? How do slaves?

Usually in the course of mastery and enslavement of a woman by a Man who knows what to do with her, there is a undeniable fact it seems that the woman will fall in love with the Man they seem to go hand in hand. Men don't need slaves to be Gorean, but most Men i know who are Gorean somehow incorporate slavery or wish to into their lives. If they are Men who master women they more than likely will know the women will fall in love with them. Based on this aspect, do Men who own slaves actually in some way need a slave's love? Is that why they master them so completely? Do they feel if a slave does not love them that they own, have they somehow not completely mastered her? Do they desire a slave's love because of some inherent idea of completeness? Do they demand it as their do and if so, does this not impress some idea of it is a need? Does this result in some ways impact Men in their want of a slave? Do you think some men decide to master slaves because they want to be loved? Does the men see this love as something to treasure, just a natural result of being mastered, as some sort of acceptance etc?

How does the Man who owns a slave look at his slave's love for him? How does he relate it back to himself and her place in his life? What do the slave's believe their love is seen as by the Men who own them?

This is a different angle to the love thang, and i am not sure if i am stating it understandably, but its not a rehash of the other threads, its a different aspect of love.

angel

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 2

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 7:55:59 AM

Nosathro

Posts: 1482
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

greetings
There is a Gorean saying "A Master without a slave is only a man, a slave without a Master is only a woman, together they are complet." I would say that there is a love relationship and that I as a Master do need it from my slave. That I would say is normal in any releationship between people. A good slave is always something to treasure by any Master, and love is shown in many ways from a praise to outward acts of affection. For Me as a Master, a loving slave is a sign of my ability to Master.

I wish you well

Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 3

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 8:14:06 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Greetings Master Nasathro,

While i know of many sayings that imply the concept of a Master and slave together are complete, i have never seen that statement put quite that way as a Gorean saying. Could you please clarify a little more of where that saying came about?

If i am understanding you correctly, you feel loving a slave is a need of a Man who owns a slave and a slave's love must be reciprocated by the Man in order for the mastery of a slave to be complete?

I appreciate your input, i always wondered how the Men view the love a their slave towards them.

Thanks,

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 4

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 9:24:33 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

greetings
For Me as a Master, a loving slave is a sign of my ability to Master.

I wish you well

Nosathro

Nosathro making a personal statement is probably correct for him. However on a more generalized view and certainly from my perspective, I must disagree. The ability to master has nothing to do with love. In fact it could be argued that love can and has been the downfall of Masters due to in effect the slave topping from the bottom.

Personally, slaves or House Iron Bear may or may not fall in love with me. I would anticipate some affection and some closeness but not necessarily love. On the other hand, a girl in my personal collar, I’d expect would feel love for me. So what sort of love is acceptable or expected? To answer this it is best to define the sort of love which is unacceptable. A jealous blind love which is driven by a desire to supplant Lady Neets as my Wife/FC is totally unacceptable and would result in the girl being released and removed from the home.

For a girl in my collar could expect to be loved deeply by me. I would expect to be loved by her in a similar manner with the intimacies which can only exist between Master and slave. This is a completely different love than that which is shared by Neets and I. One complements the other.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Nosathro)

Post #: 5

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 12:48:38 PM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

I agree, old bear. Matter of fact there really nothing more that I can add to what you've said.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 6

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 4:04:01 PM

krys

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

A girl that loves you is far easier to control.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 7

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 4:16:18 PM

yun

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline

greetings krys..

i am curious as to why you think love = manageability or being easier to control? could devotion not carry the same ease instead of love? could respect not carry the same ease? was just wondering if you could expand your thoughts on that please!

Thanks!

with an allowed voice..

_____________________________

*~lauryl~*
owned property of BLS

(in reply to krys)

Post #: 8

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 4:31:00 PM

edana

Posts: 594
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline

greetings,

love in all its forms has its pluses and minuses, as does every choice we make, whether known or unknown to us. (who we fall in love with usually is not a manipulative factor) much of the interaction between people is based on each persons natural inclination for emotion and response.
Some love posessively, some sleflessly, some tenderly, some quietly, some love with deep respect, and others with firey passion - or any combination of the above. it is a happy man who recognizes and nurtures the unique capacity of love that the girl in his collar posesses.

_____________________________

In service,

edana

"Discipline turns talent into ability"

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 9

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 4:31:23 PM

fyreredsub

Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline

thats a good point you made yun.could one not be easy to manage just b/c they have been successfully mastered? or b/c they to serve?

quote:

ORIGINAL: yun

greetings krys..

i am curious as to why you think love = manageability or being easier to control? could devotion not carry the same ease instead of love? could respect not carry the same ease? was just wondering if you could expand your thoughts on that please!

Thanks!

with an allowed voice..

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to yun)

Post #: 10

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 6:16:59 PM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

My owner feels a slave's love is simply a natural consequence of her enslavement. It is normal, expected, and OK. He doesn't feel guilty that he does not love me, he feels for me in that regard. He knows that I have wanted for nothing more the past 5 years or so than for him to love me. He knows it is my deepest wish, it is my silent prayer every day. Every once in a while when I have a little too much wine, I have a little too much whine..and I cry over it and wonder makes me so unloveable? He listens, he doesn't punish me or get upset, he just listens...when I'm done, it is back to being a silently held wish. He finds my love for him makes me more vulnerable, prettier, more willing to please, more readily able to accept difficult things or to work harder to process hard things into something positive, it makes me hungry and passionate to be kept by him. It isn't the only reason those things happen but in combination with other beliefs he has set in place, the re-adjusting he has done to my internal moral compass and re-mapping of coping mechanisms he didn't feel were beneficial to my life as property..I run pretty smooth. I function as his oasis with very few skips these days. The love thing is probably the most difficult and it has been years and I still can't let it go. I should skip over these love topics but like a scab you can't help but pick at, I read them all.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 11

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 7:14:25 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

hi being chewsie, when reading your post all i said to myself was wow. if you were here i would probably hug you. Thank you for your honesty. I am sorry about causing your scab to reappear.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 12

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 7:43:57 PM

krys

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yun

greetings krys..

i am curious as to why you think love = manageability or being easier to control? could devotion not carry the same ease instead of love? could respect not carry the same ease? was just wondering if you could expand your thoughts on that please!

Thanks!

with an allowed voice..

Happy too yun. I was mentioning but one reason a Master may wish for his slave to love him. It is not the only reason. It is not the only intense connection a slave may feel to her Master. Devotion and respect fall into that category also. But any deep emotional connection a slave feels for her Master makes that connection, the bonds of her slavery, just that much stronger. A girl more strongly bound, more deeply Mastered, is often easier to control. There is often a difference between a slave striving to be pleasing, and a slave striving to please the man she loves. It is often a beautiful thing.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to yun)

Post #: 13

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 8:20:49 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 37443
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I don't know you or your Master, but I kinda gotta admire the fuckin' guy....

I see alott profiles on this site, claiming to be Gorean.......claiming to be whatever.........

Many of them start out something like........I am a strong something that has dominion over my......

would that men were so poetic.........

I have found that in my life, emotions do not enter into it the same for me as you..............
While you spend your time in 'THE FEEL' .......
I have had to spend my time in the aftermath (read consequence) of feelings, passion-- whatever.........
So, I think that men enjoy your feelings and passions and so on, and spend a great deal of life involved in 'em.........

But the moments of intensity, although prescious, are not viable (for lack of a better term) in my estimation.............

And what makes life right, is your pendulum swinging one way and mine another.............

And on average........we meet in the middle..........
A Clockwork.....not at enmity, because we as humans have the same goal, or Goreans if you prefer........and the trick here is to have viable clockworks

enough.......
Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 14

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 8:21:00 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Let not a Master command a slave to love him so she strives to please the man she loves. For to attempts such foolishness may result in a slave striving to please.

Only when those who stand upon My Olympus hear her heart and the whispering of the muses will Pan play on his pipes and bring her heart strings to harmonic melodies where by she cries out for all to hear that she truly loves her Master and strives to please the man she loves.....

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to krys)

Post #: 15

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 8:25:37 PM

Nosathro

Posts: 1482
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

Tal and greetings
Please forgive my poetic license. But what I have said does have it origan in the Gor books. The exact quote is:

'The Perfect Bondage' is said to be one man and one woman, the complete master and the complete slave, ideal and perfect for each other's needs'
Slave Girl of Gor, page 442

It has been expressed here that love comes in many forms and I do strongly hold that a slave does love her Master and that Master does show love in return..however it may not always be erotic, it can be as simple as a approving nod from a Master. I do agree it easier to control and Master a slave when there is love, time on the whipping post does prevent a slave from doing what she should be doing, serving her Master.

I wish you well

Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 16

RE: Men ????????? a slave's love - 3/2/2006 8:53:47 PM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

hi being chewsie, when reading your post all i said to myself was wow. if you were here i would probably hug you. Thank you for your honesty. I am sorry about causing your scab to reappear.

Thank you. No worries, reading topics that *touch* me a little too close is a choice. I'm well kept and deeply grateful for the opportunity to be me. The fact that he keeps me and protects me makes me feel *loved*. Which is a good property-oriented to belief. Though confusing when I process it through a conventional vs property filter. I try very hard to eliminate *any* conventional thinking, looking at my life as property through the lenses of a conventional woman is the path to certain misery. Some days are better than others:). Thanks for the thoughts on the hug.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 17

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> Men ????????? a slave's love

Page: [1]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2012

Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition

Terms of Service

0.281