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RE: Choosing to be a slave


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 5:27:05 PM   
tammystarm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saffleur

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I've read some of the books. Soft porn that  brought him in a fair bit of money at the time.


Tal DesFIP,

I rarely call anyone a flat out liar but the circumstances seem perfectly apt for it. If you've read some of the books then I've got a boil on my ass the size of Manhattan.

well that would make you crabby.




sorry TOO LATE holly darling i think the deed has been done......maybe....... YEP!


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:00:27 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Oh my god, did you ever hear what all of Galileo's peers had to say about him? I completely agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I've read some of the books. Soft porn that  brought him in a fair bit of money at the time.
My major inability to begin to consider this as a basis for a life is that I've known some of his fellow professors, and they all despised him. Hard to value a person who is universally unvalued in his own field.


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:03:53 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Clueless in cyberspace? Both you and anyone that claims they are a "Gorean Master". You definately act and word things as if you were taught via the internet.

Orion the 9th degree Uber Red Gorean Master

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Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:07:58 PM   
tammystarm


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IM not gorean! i am a true submissive/slave. i only responded to the post choosing to be a slave, who knew that you are not allowed to enter a gorean thread without being ordained!  i enter the ask a master the poly and i get great respect.  welcome to earth

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:23:21 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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A twue what? Respect is valuable and should not just be handed out, it should be earned. Has nothing to do with respect though, it has to do with you showing ignorance and misinformation. If you had just answered from your perspective, it would have been different, but you had to add commentary. You can continue to deny it, and be a stagnant person in life, or accept the fact that you fucked up with bad info, and learn from it. The choice is always yours.

Welcome to Gor, it is harsh for a reason.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

IM not gorean! i am a true submissive/slave. i only responded to the post choosing to be a slave, who knew that you are not allowed to enter a gorean thread without being ordained!  i enter the ask a master the poly and i get great respect.  welcome to earth


_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:32:15 PM   
tammystarm


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o you o so true gorean  are gonna let a mere girl bother you so much..... shows lack of self control. afterall according to you i am nothing than a mere girl.

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:33:36 PM   
NihilusZero


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I don't even ID as a Gorean and am kinda irked at the tone and misreading apparent here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Surrenderwithin

I think the answers I am looking for would be more from a Gorean slave rather than a BDSM slave.


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:35:04 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

o you o so true gorean  are gonna let a mere girl bother you so much..... shows lack of self control. afterall according to you i am nothing than a mere girl.

Do you normally wander into other people's houses just to take a shit in their foyer and dare them to show composure afterward?


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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:40:57 PM   
tammystarm


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no i answered a thread called choosing to be a slave and got slammed

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:53:52 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

no i answered a thread called choosing to be a slave and got slammed


I shall requote again for repeated clarity:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Surrenderwithin

I originally asked this in the ASk a sub or slave section, but I think the answers I am looking for would be more from a Gorean slave rather than a BDSM slave. Please pardon the double post but I am also interested in comparing the feedback between the two forums.

You do not ID as a Gorean slave, went into a thread asking input from someone who does ID as one, chose to disregard that bit and offered up your views.

You make irreverent, comical comments on a structural/social system that the people in these fora take seriously and which is pretty well known to be considered something that, to speak with knowledge about, you must have read. People attempted to be suggestive of your attitude and despite your attempts to be courteous, you either unknowingly or uncaringly kept having to throw subtle derisions in (e.g. "i prefer to live in the real world").

You've essentially done precisely what I said: walked into someone else's house, shit in their foyer and then acted with incredulity as to the consequences and reactions.

And while we may all be happy that you feel you are doing what your Master wants, I fail to see how engaging in acts that are insulting to other people (out of ignorance or not) looks good on him at all.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/5/2009 6:54:55 PM >


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:56:48 PM   
tammystarm


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funny i see it the other way around. i was for lack of a better word attacked i defended myself. with thousands of words of  i know im not an expert on gorean lifestyle.......

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~~somebody pour me my nebuitol and hand me my drink~~



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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 6:58:49 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


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Hi Tammy, please don't take this the wrong way, as I only mean a little friendly advice/ explanation. I'm not Gorean either, but I have been on these boards off and on long enough to have made some mistakes and (hopefully) corrected them and learned a little in the process.

I don't see that anyone here seems to "hate" you at all. However, when you come onto the board and talk about living by fiction, well it is no different than walking into a Christian gathering and stating that the bible is just fiction and parable and why would you live your life by it? You are going to get a heated reaction. What people are trying to tell you (for example Master Camerius) is that it is not the fictional part of the book that is important, but the underlying philosophy. That our primal biological nature resonates within us and that ignoring it and trying to live by the false structure that society has built for us, is not being truthful to ourselves. And that we really need to find our own truth and not live a lie. That in a Gorean's perspective (from what I have learned and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn) is the real fantasy. The things you have learned may or may not have encompassed this philosphy, but there is much out there that purports to be "Gorean" but is not. Without knowing you, it is hard to know what information or misinformation you may have learned. But around here, one thing that is important as a slave, is that when a Master corrects you, you accept that correction gracefully and apologize and move on. It is not our place to argue with the Free. In your case, it is best to accept that you don't understand enough yet about Gor and be willing to learn more to round out the introduction you have so far received from your Master and others.

In answer to your original post, which I thought an interesting and worthwhile question, I think for myself, I have always had a slave nature. It just took finding the right person to be able to master me. I was never happy in my relationships with men that could not master me. It was confusing for a long time, because I didn't know what it was or why I was different. I figured it out when a man who was a BDSM dominant found me- not online or anything, just out in regular life- and recognized in me what I am. He wasn't strong enough to master me, but because of his time in my life, it did open up my eyes. I got online and I started reading and reading (books too) and I began to see that I was a slave. I stumbled across Gorean Whispers and it spoke to me. It was confusing at first because I had to figure out that BDSM wasn't for me and yet slavery was and figure out that that was possible. And I also had to fight my own rebellious nature. One half of me knew I was a slave and the other would fight it. Now I have come to understand (partly from Ishy's writings) that I was testing men to see if they could master me. Once someone comes along who can, there is no choice about it. They decide you will serve them and you do.

Well I hope you don't take umbrage at the first half of this, it was meant well.

Well wishes,
anna

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 7:00:57 PM   
tammystarm


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im not saying anyone hates. just that it appears that most goreans get so bent out of shape when i say, that although i am not gorean........  i goto ask a master, the poly group etc and never have received such

hugs anna i am fine


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 7:07:17 PM   
barelynangel


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You also don't go to those other forums you say you frequent insinuating that its all based on fiction or what a majority of people live is somehow based on fiction and you "live in the real world" or welcome to earth i think one was, as a general statements about the lifestyles as a whole. I know you don't because if you did, you would get the same reactions THERE as you are accusing people of doing here. IF you are remotely honest, you would agree with this. You know, i know, and most people here know if you remotely entered the other forums being more and more derogatory about the specific lifestyle of the forum, because people questioned or disagreed with what you posted, you would NOT be given respect by people who live what those forums represent.

deleted as not really relevant.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/5/2009 7:25:20 PM >


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 7:08:56 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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You were corrected on something, without sugar coating, and you viewed it as an attack. I suggest you get away from that sugar coating stuff, it tends to make people sensitive. If you ever want the brutual honest opinion on something, this is the forum to get it at. Then again most Goreans appreciate straight forwardness and no sugar coating, so it comes in large doses around here. Once you get used to it, you might actually appreciate it. Once you unlearn, and then learn some things, you may understand better.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

funny i see it the other way around. i was for lack of a better word attacked i defended myself. with thousands of words of  i know im not an expert on gorean lifestyle.......


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 7:30:49 PM   
HisToPlease


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

IM not gorean! i am a true submissive/slave. i only responded to the post choosing to be a slave, who knew that you are not allowed to enter a gorean thread without being ordained!  i enter the ask a master the poly and i get great respect.  welcome to earth


Are you trying to say that myself, or others here, are not?   I feel my slavery every second of every day so please do not judge what you apparantly do not understand. 

Please, now ask yourself, 'What is a TRUE submissive/slave?"

Next ask yourself, "Does coming into a Gorean Forum and 'bashing' those there make my Master proud?" 

Just food for thought.

Matthew's meg

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 7:35:28 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

funny i see it the other way around. i was for lack of a better word attacked i defended myself. with thousands of words of  i know im not an expert on gorean lifestyle.......

Forget Gorean lifestyles. Can you start with expertise in basic etiquette?


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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 7:43:13 PM   
barelynangel


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I posted this in the other forum prior to this one being posted. I was a Gorean slave and this is how i came to accept slave in myself:

I am slave -- mind you not A SLAVE at the moment -- simply because i am susceptible to being mastered and enslaved by a Man or certain Men wherein his determinations and expectations sand strength are my governing force not my own autonomy and self-determination. This is a need in me. I am slave because i am susceptible to Men who are able to create the environment wherein i exist in his life as he determines. Again this is a need in me. i am slave because i am susceptivel to my autonomy and self-determination being taken by a Man who is capable of doing so. Its a need to which i rarely will exist comfortably with Men NOT capable of doing this. I am also slave because i will try and use my sexuality to please Men in general its very instinctive for me and i understand my sexuality belongs to Men and that is also my nature. I need their accepttance of this from Men, i need them not to be intimidated by this part of me, i need the to exploit and demand this part of me to be expressed within the vulnerability of their control and demands, i need them to manipulate this to hold me in their determinations for me. I am slave because with certain Men i need to be mastered and enslaved to exist as they determine and to have them take my self-determination. Its a reactions and instinct i cannot control. Slave is a need within for mastery by a Man, not a determination to be a slave on my part. i cannot help but gravitate to these strong men who know how to use mastery and my own needs against me to gain what they wish. I thrive and yes, expec this of men, if they cannot deliver, i as slave wll attempt to manipulate them into feeding this need of mine. or simple seek from Man to Man until i find what my needs force me to seek..

Its about my needs, instincts and reactions to mastery not my choices. But its also about what HE is capable of also.

I am not slave because i have some need to serve just to serve (not all people who are slaves are service oriented) or because i have some need to please everyone and anyone, not even the Man who owns me all of the time. Its funny because what most people don't get is MANY women who are slaves to Men are actually very dominant in nature. Its the mastery and enslavement by which they live UNDER the determinations of the Man who owns them that he determines how he holds them in slavery and what expectations and standards they must reach. Many people mistake what they observe of slaves as a concept of they are ultra submissives -- usually this is not true. Many times they are slaves because they are NOT submissive by nature but reactionary to the mastery and enslavement of the Man who determines they exist by the expectations and standards of the Man who has determined to own them and is capable of holding them in slavery of his determination, a Man willing to exploit them and their sexuality to control them and ultimately own them.

Its not a concept of choosing to be, or making a decision to obey (i.e., slaves many times are and can be disobedient, its not a concept of enjoying to serve and please (people do that all over the world daily and it doesn't make them slaves) to be, being slave is simply in my nature when the right conditions arise based on a Man's determination and his will is such i can only be what naturally compels me.

I am a dominant nature, that doesn't disappear when i am a slave, its simply that his will, determinations etc, are such that i naturally exist in his life reaching for his expectations and standards because he has taken my autonomy and self-determination to exist as i determine in his life. i feed off his mastery, i need, and am enslaved by his mastery. Without the mastery and holding of me by his determination wherein he uses his mastery, my needs etc to hold me as he desires, especially if he loves me, i will grasp my self-determination and use it and many times scorn him for his weakness in loving me, i don't play a slave when a Man is incapable of holding me through mastery as he determines.

With such a Man or Men capable of this, i exist naturally and comfortably on my knees living by his determination, expectations, standards and such. Some days i get it right, some days i don't, and some days its a mixture of everything. grins, the concept of dominant nature and being slave nature is always so much fun to watch how people react to it. What's funny is also that i know given a CHOICE by a Man to be his slave, my answer to such a CHOICE is ummm no lol, why the hell would any logical woman wish to LIVE IN SLAVERY -- even if it is detrimental to myself as i am my own worse enemy. Most Men i know don't ASK a slave to make a choice to be A slave, they make the choice for her wherein she simply is what he determines her to be and simply wait for her to finally get it and acknowledge same.

Choosing to be a slave is kind of oxymoronic to me due to the fact that if you choose to be a slave you are determining what slave means and in all actuality the woman who is the slave doesn't CHOOSE what slave is but instead lives by the determinations and expectations of the Man who has determined to master and enslave her so she exists as he determines in his life. I think too many people try and CHOOSE to be a slave and that is where their frustrations come in because the actuality of HIS determinations for her doesn't match up to what she has determined for herself being a slave. This is one of the biggest things i struggle with for slave was forged based on no prior knowledge, and now with prior knowledge, its hard to be a clean slate.

Many people within Gor believe a woman who begs a collar is choosing to be a slave, i disagree, i believe if she gets to that point she is already mastered and enslaved and all the begging of the collar is is an acknowledgment of her realization of her existance in His and lives of Men.

I know there are women who are easier held than i, and i know there are women far harder to hold than i. However, in the end its all very simple, its all about cost and value to the Man who determines to own a slave.

angel


< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/5/2009 7:54:44 PM >


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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 8:36:06 PM   
Cherylmazana


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Strange answer angel when recently in another thread you said you were not a slave, only a role-play one, I wish you would make up your mind.

Are you a woman who longs to be a slave or a woman who wants to play at being a slave?

Let us know when you know yourself.

Cheryl

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 8:51:01 PM   
Arturas


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Tal.

tammy is mine. She is my "dina", my flower.

She has not been taught anything gorean. She knows only her Master is gorean. She is not pretending to know anything about real life Gor, the books or even the online second life movement. 

She however, is the one of the best real world kajiras I have seen, along side Jakeskajira in my estimation and I consider her one of the best. Tammy wears no turian collar or knows what nadu means.

Yet, she obeys without question her Masters instruction in real life because she must, because of her slave passion and not because she has been told or taught to. Her slave passion. All real kajirae, those that are worth having, have The Slave Passion.  

You see The Slave Passion in the sagas. Her owner knows this and says that is most important. Who can doubt my word?  

Tammy is strong, beautiful, graceful and intelligent and willing and will look good in slave beads. She looks good in anything. More so than 99% of the "trained" kajirae I have seen online and trust me, on "Gor", that is, in the Sagas, and also here being beautiful is important to a kajira. Very important. I am proud of her.

I can be proud of her because she reminds me of the sagas' newly captured kajirae like Judy Thornton and how they were selected for their beauty but mostly for their slave passion when captured. Then, through many trials and dangers, they kept their passion actual grew and they triumphed, I am talking about the kajira and indeed their masters also, how they triumphed and overcame almost impossible obstacles and grew into the women they always wanted to be and in fact, yes, in fact ended up with the Master they were in love with...for the sagas that are focused on kajirae are in fact, love stories. Intense love stories. Romances. If you don't believe it, look again. Ignore the gorean words and the gorean protocoles and fictional beasts chasing the slave girls and see the real story, one of rising from worthless to greatness, as a freeman or woman or as a slave.

My Judy Thornton, tammy, serve me with The Slave Passion found in the gorean sagas, she is in love with her master passionately so, as all wonderful kajirae must.

But I can speak more of the truths found in the sagas, but perhaps one should not waste their breaths on fools? But perhaps there are those who already know this truth but were too timid to speak up? I am not. Not Arturas. Never! Honor bound and too Gorean to not speak of the truth. Truth and honor, not bluster and protocol. . 

Let me turn to real world gorean. I am a real world gorean man, only; I do not role play. I choose what real world collar to put on tam and what she will do by my mastery of her and her will but more importantly, my mastery of myself. That is the true gorean.

I know the true gorean Man and woman is defined by how much He or she betters themselves and those dependent on them and how well they control their life and their world.  

I continue by saying this after visiting many Gorean threads, Goreans are not defined by blustering or having a kajira or kajirae nor are they defined by how many gorean words they memorized or how fast they can gang up on a girl who foolishly thought she could step into a gorean thread and speak her mind.  

Furthurmore, I am responsible for my property. If anyone has a problem with tam(Arturas) then they must address these issue to Me via C mail as I will not be monitoring this thread nor any other Gorean forum.

Finally, should any want to be trained by a real world gorean man, give it up, I am not available.

Be well,
Arturas

< Message edited by Arturas -- 10/5/2009 9:01:02 PM >

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