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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 8:52:25 PM

Arturas

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Greetings, Cheryl,

It is good to see you again. I hope you are well.

Arturas

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 9:00:26 PM

barelynangel

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excuse me Cheryl, when have i ever said i ROLEPLAY a slave? So it will be interesting to see where exactly i stated such a thing -- please Cheryl do show me. Something tells me you won't be able to because i never have stated such a thing.

Let's see i even said it here --- "I am slave -- mind you not A SLAVE at the moment" Perhaps you should learn to read Cheryl. I have also said i don't PLAY a slave for Men. But i never have ever said i ROLEPLAY a slave. I also know what it is to acknowledge SLAVE and yet not LIVE AS A SLAVE IN MY LIFE. Gee go figure, a woman who is not owned and is free actually KNOWING herself enough to acknowledge slave even if she doesn't PLAY being one while being Free. I simply don't cater to online nicknames believing THEY know me. Don't you worry yourself about what i am.

i seriously thought you had more integrity than that? Please Cheryl, copy and paste the link where i say such a thing.

You know i laid down and started laughing because it occured to me Cheryl, if i did as you claim i say i do ROLEPLAY a slave, there wouldn't be any issue with me on these boards because the BIGGEST issue people have always had with me is i won't roleplay a slave online because it doesn't reflect my life offline. Damn that is a new one lol for someone to attempt to start crap with me lol now i ROLEPLAY a slave. grins, i wonder what's next.

Its not me who needs to make up my mind Cheryl lol. What you don't realize Cheryl is that my stance on NOT pretending to be a slave for online while my offline doesn't reflect same and the actual understanding of myself is a stance i have lost friends over, i have ended friendships for,i have been kicked out of places for, i have been bombarded with such negativity and bitchiness from online nicknames. Believe me Cheryl, i know who i am and i know myself very well. And i also know what i am willing to sacrifice to stand by my decision to acknowledge slave while not PLAYING online a slave, because i don't live as a slave offline.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/5/2009 9:32:34 PM >

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 9:03:24 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Ahh the poor slave girl's rescuer has arrived. Keep your property on a leash, and maybe she won't get in as much trouble. To compare what your property has done, with how emma (jakeskajira) acts, is an insult to emma and Jake. She made a mistake typing what she did, and now rather than she learn from it, you would make things worse by running to her rescue.

No one has "ganged" up on your Mistress. Now run along back to SecondLife, where people actually believe you know what you are talking about.

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/5/2009 11:44:03 PM

Malkinius

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Greetings Arturas....

I just took a quick look at your profile and what you have written here. I don't see a thing Gorean about you. Spouting off a few terms that you have picked up and even having read some of the books doesn't make you Gorean. From your profile I see just another BDSMer enjoying his slave. Nothing wrong with that....just don't call it, or yourself, Gorean. Neither of you want me coming back here and being unhappy with you.

Be well....

Malkinius

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 12:07:20 AM

ModeratorEleven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings Arturas....

I just took a quick look at your profile and what you have written here. I don't see a thing Gorean about you. Spouting off a few terms that you have picked up and even having read some of the books doesn't make you Gorean. From your profile I see just another BDSMer enjoying his slave. Nothing wrong with that....just don't call it, or yourself, Gorean. Neither of you want me coming back here and being unhappy with you.

And you don't want me coming back here being unhappy with you. Leave your empty threats out of our forums please.

XI

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 1:23:50 AM

WyldHrt

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I think you've been trumped on the threat thingo, Malkinius.

quote:

From your profile I see just another BDSMer enjoying his slave. Nothing wrong with that....just don't call it, or yourself, Gorean.

Well enough, as this is the Gorean forum. That said, the above smacks nastily of high-and-mightyism. Just how many books does one have to read before getting into the clubhouse?

"Just another BDSMer"... yeah, ok. Just don't be surprised if that phrasing pisses some people off. Do you really want someone to refer to you on other fora as "just some Gorean?" and lump you in with thatever the subject happens to be? I suspect not.

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 2:45:06 AM

Cherylmazana

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A woman who keeps saying she is free, and yet keeps talking about wanting to be a slave and how much wants to be enslaved and yet doesn’t have the basic honesty to say she is a slave is simply role-playing a slave, or is it role-playing a free woman? In your case it could be both as it seems you cant make up your mind are you free or do you have the desires and needs of a slave, I can assure you in Gorean terms that they are very different. Myself I see you as a slave in more than just the collar around the neck sense.

Roleplaying isn’t just going to a chatroom or secondlife and being collared, many people cover basic insecurities by roleplaying in their lives or daydreaming that things were different. Role-playing is very much a part of the human psyche, we role-play many things we just don’t call it that usually. John Norman used the word masks which fits just as well, masks to fit different situations, to hide who we really are.

What I get from you is that you wish to be seen as the great Gorean slave who knows everything and yet you expect people to act and treat you as if you are free, an interesting concept which works well anywhere but Gor, however this isn’t just a Gorean forum as is pointed out regularly.

Anyway I am glad you had a good laugh, laughter is good for the soul.

Cheryl

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 3:51:55 AM

tammystarm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

Strange answer angel when recently in another thread you said you were not a slave, only a role-play one, I wish you would make up your mind.

Are you a woman who longs to be a slave or a woman who wants to play at being a slave?

Let us know when you know yourself.

Cheryl

Dear Cheryl she is a slave who calls merry maids?

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 4:04:47 AM

tammystarm

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Malkinius,
Just because He doesnt scream IM GOREAN, beats on His chest, does not mean that He isnt. "Spouting off terms" ? This Master probably knows the Gorean sagas better than You. He just doesn't go around "spouting off terms" actually the way You do, because while He incorporates some truths of the sagas in real life, He also lives on the planet Earth, and has more to Him than just Gorean ways, way more. Neither of you want me coming back here and being unhappy with you. O no Master whatever shall W/we do?

[Mod Note: personal attack removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 10/6/2009 7:08:58 AM >

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 4:39:48 AM

OrionTheWolf

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A Gorean Man needs property to defend him? Oh it just keeps getting better. Now which one of you is the slave?

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 5:05:42 AM

IrishMist

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Good morning everyone

~FR~

I am not Gorean. I admit it. I have read the books, but it was so long ago that I barely remember even what they were about, and at the time, I only read them because a teacher in school said we could not read them.

Just because I have read the books does not make me Gorean, either.
Just because I, at times, choose to post here on this forum, does not make me Gorean either.
Just because my late husband's friends WERE/ARE Gorean does not make me Gorean.
Just because my late husband identified as Gorean, does not make me Gorean.

I post here, sometimes it's taken in a nice way; other times, I am put in my place due to my ignorance of some things.
*shrug*

Tammy...you really should put your anger aside and actually read this whole thread again; specifically, the original OP, your response to it, and then all corresponding responses that follow. Take yourself down from your high horse and try to actually comprehend what was written. If you can do that, you just might be surprised to find that you are acting like a spoiled child who is throwing a tantrum.

Remember Tammy...this IS A GOREAN forum. It matters little that it resides within a BDSM web page.
They DO welcome non-Gorean's here.
They DO NOT welcome those who are belligerent, rude, obnoxious, and thoughtless. As you have just found out.

I hope everyone has themselves a wonderful day

mist

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 6:02:02 AM

barelynangel

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Cheryl, what now you are trying to make a play on your words and somehow backtrack?

You said, and i quote:

quote:

Strange answer angel when recently in another thread you said you were not a slave, only a role-play one

emphasis mine

Again, Show me exactly where i said that. Instead of doing so, which your integrity should demand you do or apologize for insinuating false statements i made so you can make people THINK something about me, you bring up some BS spiel about how you think. This is YOUR opinion Cheryl, not something i have said. You never did lower yourself to this type of thing before Cheryl, and i respected you for that, however, now you are --- why? smirks lol i can guess but let's leave it at that. Just out of curiosity, how do i remotely HIDE? If anything Cheryl, i don't wear a mask, i am blatently honest about me. If i CHOSE to play a slave over what my life is -- that over a FW -- while online -- i would be wearing a mask. If i chose to play a slave while not living as a slave offline i would be wearing a mask. If i chose to forgo acknowledging my life to make people like you comfortable -- i would be wearing a mask. No Cheryl, i don't wear a mask and yes, i pay the price for it because of egos like yours who attempt to demand people forgo their actuality and understanding of who they are to make them comfortable online. Its a choice i have made to do so. I could easily capitulate and run around online ROLEPLAYING what it is to be an actual Gorean's slave and pretend i am subservient to you in your exhaulted state you claim lol, but i don't.

Well Cheryl let's look at REALITY and what i actually say and do. I don't PLAY as if i am a slave held in slavery online for people such as you because my LIFE you know that OFFLINE thing most people want people online to reflect, is that of having my own autonomy and self-determination and well being free I may not always understand it or get it right, it actually is what i live -- self-determinng and autonomous.

I woud be a fool NOT to acknowledge slave and pretend it didn't exist just as i would be a fool to not acknowledge free and pretend it didn't exist. I would also be a fool to pretend my life isn't what it is.

Yeah Cheryl, i struggle with FW, its not an easy understanding but i am getting it and yeah, sometimes Cheryl, i am confused and not sure. Go figure, lol. So what, i should be ashamed of admitting that knowing both slave and free that sometimes i just don't know? This somehow means i don't KNOW myself -- actually Cheryl, i know myself well enough to stand against the angst i get online and admit what i do.

Sorry Cheryl, i am not ashamed of it. I admit its a struggle, and i admit i am both slave and free. Sorry its not all nice and neat for you and others, actually no i am not sorry -- it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE ELSE but me -- again go figure. I deal with women like you bitching and moaning trying to insult me and demand i roleplay through it all.

Cheryl, you are mistaken if you think my life is roleplay ONE concept over another. Its not. Its LIVING with the acceptance, the acknowledgment, and yes the struggles and many times confusion of these two concepts which war at times with each other and yeah god forbid i sometimes lean more one way than another. I don't need to roleplay one over the other concept Cheryl, i simply LIVE what my life demands -- i live as a fw, i try and understand those needs in me, i also live with the acknowledgement of slave, and try and understand those needs in me also. You know its odd, for 8ish years i have been free and well i am still free despite my struggle with slave and free, and in the battle in the end for every attempt by a Man to determine me a slave, the Free Woman has been the one who has emerged -- not the slave to a Man. So yeah, i am exploring FW, i can't ignore it even if most the time i don't yet understand it. However, i also acknowledge slave because she exists.

Perhaps you should worry about yourself Cheryl. I won't play something for you or anyone while online, and i won't hide away what i know of myself. Last i checked, i wasn't looking for your approval.

I don't expect people to treat me as anything but what i am -- a woman who is free, and i expect people especially online to not presume they know me and somehow think they can make decisions for me in their own arrogance and ego driven concepts. I do know Gor and the slavery, and i do speak about what i know. However, unlike you, i could care less if people take it or leave it, however, the feed back i get from many tells me speaking as i do has helped some understand Gorean slavery. I was a GOREAN SLAVE lol and umm know if you READ my posts about when i was a slave, you will see i was no where NEAR the editome of a perfect Gorean slave. I don't ask people to SEE me as a slave Cheryl, that is the mistake online nicknames make because they are too tuned to chatroom concepts of playing a role. I am a woman who knows the slavery, who was slave, who understands slave within her -- i won't apologize that i speak of that. I am also a woman who LIVES as a free woman and is exploring that. You don't see me discussing FW in any depth yet because well I DON'T KNOW IT enough to do so. Go figure.

chuckles, and actually tammystarm, if a Man i am not owned by demands i somehow prove how slavey i am by saying hey go clean my house, damn straight i will leave the number for merry maids, IF i have the choice to get the house clean and my Master doesn't care how gets done, yes i will, if its an option, call merry maids. I am not a domestic person, never have been -- but i guess because i was a slave or am slave somehow i must LOVE to clean house -- get real. However, when i was owned, MY MASTER is the one who chose to bring in outside help to clean his home even though i - his slave - lived with him and spent 8 years as his slave in his home. grins, we had a nanny too and she also cleaned up. Oh but wait, i somehow must feel bad about that lol. My former Master sent me out to work, he did not need me to be a house slut or a domestic slut for him, he had other women to do that for him. Instead he sent me out to do what i was good at, which isn't cleaning house or cooking or being a pseudo housewife type slave, he utilized my talents and yes he enjoyed me happy which i wasn't good enough to pretend cleaning his house had me skipping around singing how slave i was while doing it. When i had to do it, he knew i did it out of duty as a slave and well hell it needed to get done (pretty much how i do it NOW, since i can't afford merry maids) not out of some joy joy joy in my heart cause well gee golly i was such a slave when doing so.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/6/2009 6:56:38 AM >

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 6:33:44 AM

tazzygirl

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hi tammy

there are a few hard and fast rules about being a "kajira"

One is to obey... simple enough, self explanatory... more specific.. obey your Owner.

Next is to not tarnish your "collar" by any deed. uphold your Master's honor in all you do... is something that keeps ringing in my ears.

there is no such thing as a gorean slave. there are only slaves owned by goreans. as such a woman, one would hope you would explore his world, what makes him tick, as he allows. perhaps he doesnt allow you to read the books, which would make sense of why you dont understand them.

but, even in the D/s realm, i was never aware that it was "ok" for a slave to berate their betters... and.. yes... the term slave gives the connotation that we have people better than ourselves.

i echo Mists suggestion and hope you read the thread again, without anger, from the place of a slave and not a woman out to prove her own point.

well wishes

tazzy

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 6:34:11 AM

tammystarm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

A Gorean Man needs property to defend him? Oh it just keeps getting better. Now which one of you is the slave?

no not at all. i was just replying to others. He can take care and handle all O/our issues. Your reaching in thin air there. He has already spoken and i replied to two who still keeps on and on.

once again i am not angry. i am just peachy keen.

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 6:53:26 AM

tammystarm

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what part of this upsetted so many?

I myself considered myself a submissive always had been, whether it was in the bd/sm realm or not. It has been in the last few months that i came to realize how deep my devotion to Master is. He has gorean underpinnings and i have always said
(pardon me true goreans) that the gorean lifestyles was based on fictional books, not real. While i still havent read them but have heard alot about them, i am coming around somewhat to its ways. Granted while i always said the books were fiction i have also admitted it was fiction based on loose truths. The depth of my love for Master has allowed me to realize that i am a true slave, and maybe just slightly a bit gorean.....maybe He is brainwashing me ;)
Peace Love and Harmony to You all.
Master's
~t~
actually i do not need my Master to come to my rescue i am absolutely fine. Although i adore His true words about O/our life. im not feeling hated, and im not hating anyone, its not in my nature. i am not angry. i am a bit shocked that this is the only place on the message boards where i would be shunned to say how i felt about being a slave. o well enough of this, its kinda boreing and tiring listening to men beat on their chest. wishing all the best of life.
Masters
~t~

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 7:01:02 AM

Camerius

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Greetings tazz,

I would argue that there IS such a thing as a Gorean slave, not only from her being owned by a Gorean, but also by her accepting the philosophy and ethos as her own to follow and in that way she becomes also a Gorean. As to the OP, I'll leave the why and how a female chooses this way to live to their own words and thoughts.

I wish you well,

Camerius

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 7:35:21 AM

Camerius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

what part of this upsetted so many?

I myself considered myself a submissive always had been, whether it was in the bd/sm realm or not. It has been in the last few months that i came to realize how deep my devotion to Master is. He has gorean underpinnings and i have always said
(pardon me true goreans) that the gorean lifestyles was based on fictional books, not real. While i still havent read them but have heard alot about them, i am coming around somewhat to its ways. Granted while i always said the books were fiction i have also admitted it was fiction based on loose truths. The depth of my love for Master has allowed me to realize that i am a true slave, and maybe just slightly a bit gorean.....maybe He is brainwashing me ;)
Peace Love and Harmony to You all.
Master's
~t~
actually i do not need my Master to come to my rescue i am absolutely fine. Although i adore His true words about O/our life. im not feeling hated, and im not hating anyone, its not in my nature. i am not angry. i am a bit shocked that this is the only place on the message boards where i would be shunned to say how i felt about being a slave. o well enough of this, its kinda boreing and tiring listening to men beat on their chest. wishing all the best of life.
Masters
~t~

You can't see the fault in what you have written and which seems to be rubbing the wrong way around here? I'll break it down for you, first you say the following

quote:

While i still havent read them but have heard alot about them, i am coming around somewhat to its ways

which is pretty clear, right? You haven't read the books and don't know what they're embracing from a first hand knowledge. What you do have is heard about them, read webpages about them, and been told a few positions from them from some Gorean masters and your own. Again, many have done so to move on to read them, nothing wrong with that in anyway, I too started out that way, by being told about them.
But the next part is where it all goes wrong;

quote:

Granted while i always said the books were fiction i have also admitted it was fiction based on loose truths.

and what I asked you about, in how can you say they're based on loose truths if you haven't read them in the first place? THAT is what I asked you about, and what all this useless drama is escalating from on your side.

How can you say they're loose truths when you haven't even read the books to know if that was really the case? Do you follow me? Where do you know that from, when you have clearly stated that you are clueless and haven't read the books at all? Yes, you have read webpages, heard about the books from others, but in the end, you confess to you not having read the book so anything you write about them, do become a moot point from your side.

That is what is the main point here, NOT if you're hated, shunned or whatever useless defense you try to use in covering that up. Or the point of if your master is Gorean or not, at least not from my side, his post here told me what I wanted to know about that in a pretty direct way. Also, no one here is shunning you, hating you or anything along those lines, I haven't found that being mentioned anywhere, except in your own posts here, nowhere or by anyone else. And to be honest, and I think you know this too, it's a very poor and weak defense to use and one that won't work.

I have tried to have a discussion with you about what you did wrong, pointed out where it was you were so and in a very vain hope that you would learn from it by me doing so to you, but I can see that is not the main reason as to why you you continue, there's something else that drives or compels you here and I for one won't be part of it and leave you to thrive on what is left.

I wish you well,

Camerius

< Message edited by Camerius -- 10/6/2009 8:19:33 AM >

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 7:51:28 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Greetings Camerius,

At this point I do not believe Tammy the twue slave, nor the one she apparently has enslaved, will admit to screwing up (even if unintentional in the beginning). Is yet more of those that drive by, without a clue, but appear to have twue knowledge.

Anywa, hope all is well with you and yours.

Live well,
Orion

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 8:18:50 AM

Camerius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Tal.

tammy is mine. She is my "dina", my flower.

She has not been taught anything gorean. She knows only her Master is gorean. She is not pretending to know anything about real life Gor, the books or even the online second life movement.

She however, is the one of the best real world kajiras I have seen, along side Jakeskajira in my estimation and I consider her one of the best. Tammy wears no turian collar or knows what nadu means.

Yet, she obeys without question her Masters instruction in real life because she must, because of her slave passion and not because she has been told or taught to. Her slave passion. All real kajirae, those that are worth having, have The Slave Passion.

You see The Slave Passion in the sagas. Her owner knows this and says that is most important. Who can doubt my word?

Tammy is strong, beautiful, graceful and intelligent and willing and will look good in slave beads. She looks good in anything. More so than 99% of the "trained" kajirae I have seen online and trust me, on "Gor", that is, in the Sagas, and also here being beautiful is important to a kajira. Very important. I am proud of her.

I can be proud of her because she reminds me of the sagas' newly captured kajirae like Judy Thornton and how they were selected for their beauty but mostly for their slave passion when captured. Then, through many trials and dangers, they kept their passion actual grew and they triumphed, I am talking about the kajira and indeed their masters also, how they triumphed and overcame almost impossible obstacles and grew into the women they always wanted to be and in fact, yes, in fact ended up with the Master they were in love with...for the sagas that are focused on kajirae are in fact, love stories. Intense love stories. Romances. If you don't believe it, look again. Ignore the gorean words and the gorean protocoles and fictional beasts chasing the slave girls and see the real story, one of rising from worthless to greatness, as a freeman or woman or as a slave.

My Judy Thornton, tammy, serve me with The Slave Passion found in the gorean sagas, she is in love with her master passionately so, as all wonderful kajirae must.

But I can speak more of the truths found in the sagas, but perhaps one should not waste their breaths on fools? But perhaps there are those who already know this truth but were too timid to speak up? I am not. Not Arturas. Never! Honor bound and too Gorean to not speak of the truth. Truth and honor, not bluster and protocol. .

Let me turn to real world gorean. I am a real world gorean man, only; I do not role play. I choose what real world collar to put on tam and what she will do by my mastery of her and her will but more importantly, my mastery of myself. That is the true gorean.

I know the true gorean Man and woman is defined by how much He or she betters themselves and those dependent on them and how well they control their life and their world.

I continue by saying this after visiting many Gorean threads, Goreans are not defined by blustering or having a kajira or kajirae nor are they defined by how many gorean words they memorized or how fast they can gang up on a girl who foolishly thought she could step into a gorean thread and speak her mind.

Furthurmore, I am responsible for my property. If anyone has a problem with tam(Arturas) then they must address these issue to Me via C mail as I will not be monitoring this thread nor any other Gorean forum.

Finally, should any want to be trained by a real world gorean man, give it up, I am not available.

Be well,
Arturas

I see them containing a lot of other things than what you mention here. One thing that strikes me is the following that if we ignore the Gorean words ( the underlying philosophy and ethos I think you're referring to that is repeated time and time again ) and protocols, then I would like to know what exactly it is we have left that would be Gorean? Would there be any Gorean evidence remaining for us to see? If so, what? Would there be anything?

Also, you mention honor a lot, what is honor? Also what is truth? What does these have to do with being and living as a Gorean? What relevance do they contain? What weight do they carry? What are they build on or from?

I think, if you were to bust that romantic bubble and looked at what was left, you might be surprised.

One thing I however do agree with you fully on is that Goreans are not defined by blustering or having a kajira or kajirae nor are they defined by how many gorean words they memorized or how fast they can gang up on a girl who foolishly thought she could step into a gorean thread and speak her mind. That is one thing you got right in all of this. The follow up question for this is then, what IS it then that defines Goreans if we ignore all the Gorean words and protocol and this is one I'm gonna let you figure out.

I wish you well,

Camerius

< Message edited by Camerius -- 10/6/2009 8:20:59 AM >

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"To Gorean morality many Earth moralities might ask, "Why so hard?" To these Earth moralities, the Gorean ethos might ask, "Why so soft?" Marauders of Gor, pg.8

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RE: Choosing to be a slave - 10/6/2009 10:08:09 AM

tammystarm

Posts: 2918
Joined: 7/26/2006
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Dear AnimusRex,
i am trying really i am!!!!!

Cheryl you have mail my dear. and i love you! smiles

< Message edited by tammystarm -- 10/6/2009 10:13:29 AM >

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