Choosing to be a slave (Full Version)

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Surrenderwithin -> Choosing to be a slave (10/3/2009 7:46:50 PM)

I originally asked this in the ASk a sub or slave section, but I think the answers I am looking for would be more from a Gorean slave rather than a BDSM slave. Please pardon the double post but I am also interested in comparing the feedback between the two forums.

I was reading on some message boards today and one of the topics sparked an interesting thought for me. The topic was directed to slaves.

The question was basically this : At what point did you decide to accept that you are a slave? What lead you to choose to be a slave. I know most slaves will say that I didnt choose slavery it choose me. I acknowledge that is likely true but at some point you had to say... Ok, I know this is who I am and accept that choosing to walk in the knowledge of who and what you are. When or how did you realize/decide to accept that and say, " yes, I am a slave".

For me I am sure it was a series of events and I am not ready to write about my thoughts yet as I am still collecting my thoughts and sorting through them. In the meantime I would be interested to hear from other slaves on this topic.

Any takers?



estah -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/3/2009 8:14:28 PM)

I knew for a long time who I was, but it is in the last months that I have come to truly understand what that means.

I decide to be true to myself, the problem for me was not to hide behind a mask of what I thought a slave was and accept that a slave is defined by the Free.



XaviersXian -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 2:45:02 AM)

greetings to all,

I didn't ever "choose" to be a slave.  In an undeveloped form, it has always been what, and who I am. 

I chose only to submit my life to my Master.  He is the most amazing man, completely perfect for me in every way, and a person that, despite my struggles at times, I am eternally grateful and proud to wear the collar of.  He has helped me to grow into the slave that I am now, and helped me to learn exactly what being a slave actually is. 

At times, I really hate having a slave nature, but I did some soul searching recently, and realised that no matter how much I hate slavery and slaving at times, and try to mentally escape the condition that Master keeps me in (I realised a long time ago that I could not ever physically walk out the door) I cannot escape from my self.  As long as my Master is living (and very likely for many years after his death) there will always be this internal compulsion that will drag me back to my Master's feet and force me into his loving, devoted service.

well wishes,



tammystarm -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 8:13:41 AM)

I myself considered myself a submissive always had been, whether it was in the bd/sm realm or not. It has been in the last few months that i came to realize how deep my devotion to Master is. He has gorean underpinnings and i have always said
(pardon me true goreans) that the gorean lifestyles was based on fictional books, not real. While i still havent read them but have heard alot about them, i am coming around somewhat to its ways. Granted while i always said the books were fiction i have also admitted it was fiction based on loose truths. The depth of my love for Master has allowed me to realize that i am a true slave, and maybe just slightly a bit gorean.....maybe He is brainwashing me ;)
Peace Love and Harmony to You all.
Master's
~t~



Musicmystery -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 9:02:19 AM)

quote:

based on fictional books, not real


No, no, the books are real...I've seen them!



tammystarm -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 10:21:16 AM)

alas... the books are real the writing is based on fiction   and dreams of men who want it to be so! ;)

dont hate  this was supposed to be ahahahhahahhaha



Musicmystery -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 12:45:37 PM)

Yeah...carefully and critically examining your life, your nature, and your society, striving to live in more realistic, healthy, thriving harmony within that balance----

That's just fucked up. Silly fuckers.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 2:09:37 PM)

I mean hey, the Tao Te Ching is fiction as well (though I love all the myths about Lao Tzu). Them silly Taoist fuckers.



Camerius -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 4:14:02 PM)

quote:

While i still havent read them but have heard alot about them, i am coming around somewhat to its ways. Granted while i always said the books were fiction i have also admitted it was fiction based on loose truths.



Just out of curiosity here, how on Earth can you base anything substantial from hearsay and not from hard cold facts by actually taking the time to examine something before deeming it to be valid or not, even less air an uninformed understanding of it as is done here?

Granted, the books are fiction, but what is in them on a much deeper level is not just the dreams of men whom want it as you wrote, but too women that wants the same. The different is, to us, this is not a dream nor is it a fantasy, it's just a way to live our own separate lives in the ways we each deems and finds to be the best for us in our day to day lives. And that's pretty much it, we try to find our own best way for us to live as men and women, as whole individuals and as human beings.

Also, there are some pretty thought provoking viewpoints as to why we are as we are when it comes to our two sexes besides some interesting psychological and sexual explanations for why this is so. Again, granted, some does not agree with them and I personally do not have any kind of problem with them not doing so, but to come to that stand point and say so, like you do here, I do hope that they have taken the time to reach that conclusion from actually spending time with what this is about. At least I do hope so, but I do too know that the Moon does not consist of green cheese.

One thing I do think would make life a little easier for a lot of us is if would we had the courage to start looking at both our selfs and the world around us for what it really is, what really makes it tick and accept what we uncovered that way, instead of covering it up, lying about it, denying it or just look away pretending what was to be found to not be there. If that was done and we examined and more importantly accepted the evidence we found that way, by constantly testing it and questioning it, then the world, our society and we as human beings would fair way better than we do now.

This might be a loose truth to you, but by having done the above for soon to be 10 years, I have found that to be anything BUT so. So have a few others that have had that courage, see, they have taken the time to actually examine something before they deemed it valid or not to them selfs and their own individual lives and not just on hearsay.


The question in the end is maybe not so much about loose truths  but more of having the courage to view the world, society and us that way or not, and I'll let you make that judgment to yourself and your own life, just as I do to everyone else. All I can hope for is you and others do this by starting to examine what really is there.


I wish you well,

  Camerius






tammystarm -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/4/2009 7:42:08 PM)

Dear Camerius Sir,
i agree i have not read the books. However i have read much about the subject, listened and learned from several Gorean Masters as well as Master Himself.   i never said it wasnt valid for those who live and believe it, just that i personally dont find it substantial enough to live my life through the Gorean sagas. There will come a day where i will sit down and read those. And i am sure that beyond what i have been taught by other Goreans i will find meaning in it for myself. If W/we are speaking of courage than Master Himself can tell You just how much courage i have. i am incredibly courageous  . i myself find that the 50's lifestyle to be one that has been the best for mankind and live it as much as i can. Dresses, heels, dinner ready, taking care of Master, is a part of who i am. It hasnt been asked of me, it is simply who i am. In the future, and in all truth, i have been reading more and more, yet still believe in my ways. So i take from it what i can, and do as Master wishes.
Peace. Love and Harmony,
Master's
~t~



HisToPlease -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 3:27:54 AM)

Greetings to all,

I am new to this forum and hope to be able to add to it in a positive manner, this topic being my first to reply to.

I accepted my submissive nature quite some time ago, ran with it and made many mistakes along my way, then I met my Master. 

Patiently he pulled me out of my shell, taught me so much more about who I am and what that meant, allowed me to grow slowly and steadily without fear.  It scared the crap out of me for the longest time.  I tried to hide, tried to pretend that I was just like every other woman out there and failed misserably at doing so.

I never decided I was a slave, He decided I was his slave and damn was he right.

With respect,
Matthew's meg.



Camerius -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 4:55:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

Dear Camerius Sir,
i agree i have not read the books.


In regard to anything about them from your side simply becomes a moot point.

I wish you well,

  Camerius



DesFIP -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 4:59:42 AM)

I've read some of the books. Soft porn that  brought him in a fair bit of money at the time.
My major inability to begin to consider this as a basis for a life is that I've known some of his fellow professors, and they all despised him. Hard to value a person who is universally unvalued in his own field.



tammystarm -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 6:10:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Camerius

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

Dear Camerius Sir,
i agree i have not read the books.


In regard to anything about them from your side simply becomes a moot point.

I wish you well,

Camerius




Read the entire thing please. i havent took gorean saga book and had it in my hands open and my eyes gaszing on the words , no. Two Gorean Master's have taught me the ways, including a thousand pages of reading, taught me some postions and the general gist of it all. My Master has Gorean underpinnings as He would like to say. But still while i might be "fun, what the Master would like to have. some past and present truths, alas they are still fictional books. i prefer to live in the real world, and take from the books what my Master shows me is a good value to have.

Peace Love and Harmony]
Master's
~t~



Saffleur -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 12:43:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I've read some of the books. Soft porn that  brought him in a fair bit of money at the time.


Tal DesFIP,

I rarely call anyone a flat out liar but the circumstances seem perfectly apt for it. If you've read some of the books then I've got a boil on my ass the size of Manhattan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm
Read the entire thing please. i havent took gorean saga book and had it in my hands open and my eyes gaszing on the words , no. Two Gorean Master's have taught me the ways, including a thousand pages of reading, taught me some postions and the general gist of it all. My Master has Gorean underpinnings as He would like to say. But still while i might be "fun, what the Master would like to have. some past and present truths, alas they are still fictional books. i prefer to live in the real world, and take from the books what my Master shows me is a good value to have.


The general gist of it all? There is not a "gist" or "generality" to it. There are times when a person should admit a lack of knowledge. It's alright to have that lack of knowledge, what is not alright is the profession of having a semblance of it. It's often stated like a broken record that reading the books is best way to come to an understanding of being Gorean.


Back..on topic... I've ejoyed the responses from Xian and Meg, onward to hearing the wenches profess their path to what they are I say.

I wish you well,
Scott



tammystarm -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 1:43:42 PM)

Those many pages that i referred to where of the book, yes i am basically clueless... but dont hate..... we all have the right to choose



Camerius -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 2:41:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I've read some of the books. Soft porn that  brought him in a fair bit of money at the time.
My major inability to begin to consider this as a basis for a life is that I've known some of his fellow professors, and they all despised him. Hard to value a person who is universally unvalued in his own field.



If the goal is to piss me off, you have failed, as I have no problem with you see them as soft porn that he earned money for. I however think them to contain something else that is of value to me, and too for others, even value what he has put in there. So because you find it hard to value what he has written, we should then exclude all that material, the philosophical, biological, psychological and sexual thesis he sets out to be questioned and examined? Yes, yes, quite so, and that from the reason that his fellow professors despises him. You know, it's not just them that despises him, publishing houses, author conventions, political movements does too, and yet from all of that, there are still people that finds value in his works, either to form as a basis for their lives, or just to enjoy the stories he has written.

I think your major inability to consider this to be a basis for a life is that you have a problem of looking behind the soft porn and maybe understand that there is something more that could be worth a closer look, instead of following the rest of the heard. There will always be someone that won't like him, agree with what he has written, even less that he continues to write about. Thing is, there will also be others that do find him to be of value, what he has written to be the same, and too hope that he will continue to write, even if others have an inability to understand what and what it really is about and get it.


I wish you well,

  Camerius






Camerius -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 2:57:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm


Read the entire thing please. i havent took gorean saga book and had it in my hands open and my eyes gaszing on the words , no. Two Gorean Master's have taught me the ways, including a thousand pages of reading, taught me some postions and the general gist of it all. My Master has Gorean underpinnings as He would like to say. But still while i might be "fun, what the Master would like to have. some past and present truths, alas they are still fictional books. i prefer to live in the real world, and take from the books what my Master shows me is a good value to have.

Peace Love and Harmony]
Master's
~t~




I have read the entire thing, in fact I have read it more than once just to be sure, and you still fall short. To have been told by others, and too have been reading about it, but not of the matter itself from where it is presented in it's originality is not the same. You haven't read the books but been told by others about them also read some websites and filled in with some positions and other handy things from your master. Quite a few have started out that way at one time or another. But if you don't know, then don't pretend to do so, as has been mentioned, there's nothing wrong about not knowing about something, and yes, we all have a choice, to gain knowledge about something or not so take your pick.

If you're clueless, then do something about, you got a brain, put it to work and stop with the "poor me you all hate me" crap, suck it up and learn.


I wish you well,

  Camerius







sirsholly -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 3:23:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saffleur

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I've read some of the books. Soft porn that  brought him in a fair bit of money at the time.


Tal DesFIP,

I rarely call anyone a flat out liar but the circumstances seem perfectly apt for it. If you've read some of the books then I've got a boil on my ass the size of Manhattan.

well that would make you crabby.



tammystarm -> RE: Choosing to be a slave (10/5/2009 5:17:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Camerius

quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm


Read the entire thing please. i havent took gorean saga book and had it in my hands open and my eyes gaszing on the words , no. Two Gorean Master's have taught me the ways, including a thousand pages of reading, taught me some postions and the general gist of it all. My Master has Gorean underpinnings as He would like to say. But still while i might be "fun, what the Master would like to have. some past and present truths, alas they are still fictional books. i prefer to live in the real world, and take from the books what my Master shows me is a good value to have.

Peace Love and Harmony]
Master's
~t~




I have read the entire thing, in fact I have read it more than once just to be sure, and you still fall short. To have been told by others, and too have been reading about it, but not of the matter itself from where it is presented in it's originality is not the same. You haven't read the books but been told by others about them also read some websites and filled in with some positions and other handy things from your master. Quite a few have started out that way at one time or another. But if you don't know, then don't pretend to do so, as has been mentioned, there's nothing wrong about not knowing about something, and yes, we all have a choice, to gain knowledge about something or not so take your pick.

If you're clueless, then do something about, you got a brain, put it to work and stop with the "poor me you all hate me" crap, suck it up and learn.


I wish you well,

Camerius







No no no first of all i really dont care whether you or any other here hates me, as Master says this is a cold electronic world not the actual day to day that i live. i havent read them. but i think several hundred pages, and many websites, as  well as two Master's who could darn near recite the entire sagas does give me a clue. i said i didnt know it all, so why are you continuing to tell me what i have already said. No it doesnt hurt to read, not at all. Considering ive been in one school or another my entire life other than the last two years i think i have read a far amount. Just not gorean. This thread was choosing to be a slave; here let me quote;


The question was basically this : At what point did you decide to accept that you are a slave? What lead you to choose to be a slave. I know most slaves will say that I didnt choose slavery it choose me. I acknowledge that is likely true but at some point you had to say... Ok, I know this is who I am and accept that choosing to walk in the knowledge of who and what you are. When or how did you realize/decide to accept that and say, " yes, I am a slave".

For me I am sure it was a series of events and I am not ready to write about my thoughts yet as I am still collecting my thoughts and sorting through them. In the meantime I would be interested to hear from other slaves on this topic.


My answer to this is i realized i was more a slave than a submissive due to my extent of love for my Master. As W/we are both sane people i trust Him with whatever He may wish of me. i would beg Your forgiveness of my ignorance of the world of Gor, except i have no need too.  pssst welcome to earth.
Be well



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