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RE: "I need you to make me all I should be"


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RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 10:26:21 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Yes, I will be holding a marriage ceremony for ten couples... oh... as soon as I get it figured out if sunmoon and skyscraper should be together rather than sunmoon and fistmonger. It is a difficult task for mere mortal... but everyone knows a dominant cannot be a mere mortal. hehe

Well said Peon!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 10:41:20 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Completely off topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
In the leather community, this view is very common held.

- pixel



Would you care to link some references to this?  I would be completely interested in reading a leather viewpoint that is so vastly different from My own and and those I'm familiar with in the leather community.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to pixelslave)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 5:04:46 PM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
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I wanted to jump back on here and address some of the new replies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SaharahEve

Some want to add to your life. They serve from a place of selflessness and loyalty. You might not mind helping them reach their emotional, spiritual, and physical potential. Others want to steal your life. They self-serve from a place of greed. High Maintenance submissives. Buyer beware. How can you tell the difference? Look for patterns. Ignore words, watch actions.
:)


SaharahEve, I quoted your whole post because...well, because it makes such sense and I liked the Buyer Beware warning.   

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
This snippet, when quoted by itself, is out of context and as such misleads from the general message conveyed in your original post. Since CarrieO quoted it as above in her overall response to this thread, I wanted to make a comment on it as well.

I think in a D/s or M/s dynamic, both the Dominant and the submissive (or slave) both serve each other. Its a yin - yang kind of thing where one can't exist without the other. The service provided by each is different, but its still a form of service to each other whether or not its thought of as such. In the leather community, this view is very common held


 
pixel, I chose to only quote a portion of what MarcEsadrian posted because it actually did address my specific question.  Much like LadyPact, I would be curious to read any links you have to offer in regards to views within the leather community that would relate to the idea of a sub being self-serving with his reasons for approaching a domme...besides the obvious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
With that in mind, I will go on to say you're right in your general viewpoint, however. We all need to get something out of serving. In this sense, there is really no such thing as an "unconditional" servitude, unless of course one desires a slave by force. What conditions are met for the servant by serving? The experiential fulfillment in serving, in being allowed a chance to kneel at the feet of the one who has inspired us so. That, in my opinion, is the only condition I find sacred. For me, it's not about fixing or compensating for a person's dysfunctional character in a grandiose form of D/s therapy. It's true personal improvement often follows with good leadership, but to make it the primary impetus from the outset smacks of something wrong to me. If you need to be spiritually "completed" by serving your Goddess, I understand that, and I don't think the OP is questioning that notion. It's the willful desire to want someone to repair you and perhaps even take away your personal accountability to yourself that I find suspect.

Anais Nin once wrote, "I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man lying over me, always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot. I don’t mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, God, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don’t mind being told to stand on my own feet, not to cling, be all that I am capable of doing, but I am going to be pursued, fucked, possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding.""

While this quote's general nature is obviously not appropriate for "Ask A Mistress", the overall gist of not clinging and "standing on your own two feet" in submission is well articulated and apropos for this thread, I think.


I chose to quote 98% of your post because, yet again, you hit the nail on the head in regards to this thread.  I also love the Anais Nin quote...if you switch the gender references, it would fit beautifully in this forum. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
I may help as a friend or lay counselor in some way, but I won’t be in a relationship with them.


Lockit...it was worth the wait.  All I can say is wow.  I chose to quote this last line, even though the whole post was great, because its what I can relate to the most.  As I stated earlier in the thread, I found myself in a situation where I became simply a means to his end and I needed to step away.  It was a learning experience for both of us...well, for me at least. 


Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my question and offer their opinions. I've found myself going back to my beginning and I need to take this time to learn and grow from my experiences.  I've always said CM is a good place for that.

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 10/15/2009 5:40:10 PM >


_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~


(in reply to SaharahEve)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 5:43:18 PM   
nanshakh


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

CarrieO:
They will say they are a victim of their own desires or need a woman (read; Mistress) to teach/train them to be what they should be.


Isn't this the key word? "Victims". They are victims. Victims of their desires, victims of themselves, victims of their nature, blah blah blah; Read: Victim, and that sums it up.

If they can't even assume their own desires, of course they need help. First and foremost they need help to be absolved. "I want to submit, I crave to be dominated, but really, it's not me, no no no, it's not my 'fault', it's not my doing, I'm a victim..."

It's primordial to them to establish the fact that they are not even responsible for the way they are lusting for sex, therefore they only deserve to be absolved. Next, they should be helped. And, how convenient, it invariably turns out they have a very definite agenda on how they should be "dominated", helped, for their own good, but of course.

The confusion probably comes from the word "submission". Those want to see in it the kind of submission they enjoyed as children. The kind that implies a little show of obedience on their part, in return for the complete slavery of the parents. Dropped into the big wild world, they whine! Oh how ready they are to submit to anyone willing to take the burden again. That kind of submission is very greedy, very selfish and very tyrannical. It demands, and gives nothing in return. Oh, children do give back to their parents in many ways, but these adults playing at being children are set at giving nothing in return. Many children are not cowards. Adult children are the ones who were cowards, and could never grow up.

Then there is the real life meaning of submission. It is demanding. On the submitted. It is a craving to be submitted. To serve. A lifetime craving. Those who crave it have a hard way to go, learning to cope with it. Learning the full implications. Accepting the consequences. And learning how to be able to serve a Mistress one day, to be useful to her, and not to be a pain in the neck.

Serving is not easy. It's enough to look at the life of a real servant, at a time when they were legions. Not a slave mind you, simply a servant, a soubrette for instance. One of those lucky to serve the rich and mighty, and thus enjoying a fate so much preferable to that of any other of her class. Still she was housed in squalid quarters, without heating, without any convenience. She went to bed only when dismissed by her mistress, late at night, but was up hours before her, before dawn, to wash in cold water, dress in the cold, and then creep down to her mistress' room to lit a fire two hours before she was due to wake up. And that was just the beginning of the day. She could have a headache, feel sick, be exhausted, have suffered a distressing loss, no one cared a bit. She still had to be ready to serve, looking good, a smile on her face, concerned about her mistress' mood, helpful, patient, resourceful. Any little soubrette had to be powerful, astute, resourceful to be a real help to her mistress. And she was not expecting any help in return.

And we are not even talking about slaves.

Those who want to serve had better be prepared. And had better be able to solve their own problems without letting it bother their mistress.

But they also have a real incentive to help them find that strength in themselves. And that incentive is only known to those who have no hope, no expectations. It is powerful because it comes from an irrepressible need. It is a selfish act to submit and become enslaved to a woman. But it takes courage to accept it. To accept that far from all the chivalrous crap of shiny knights in sparkling armour, there is no grandiloquent selfless sacrifice in submission, but a vital achievement for the slave, a natural act of symbiosis, where one creature becomes engulfed into another, absorbed, sucked. Even lost. And as all natural acts, it may be quite beautiful in its truthfulness, but it is quite implacable. There is no mercy, and certainly no retribution in nature.

For those who were born for it, this is the selfish appeal of slavery to them. It takes power to accept it, and they crave it because it will empower them even further. They selfishly need to be enslaved as it is the only way for them to attain that final stage of their development: slavery. They know their submission is anything except a gift they could make to their mistress, on the contrary, it is a gift bestowed by her on them. The slaves who understand that, are genuinely grateful to their Mistress. Instead of only thinking of what they feel entitled to get in return for their serving, they are at a loss to find ways to express their gratitude. They are thankful to be exploited by her. They don't expect her to be grateful, but rightfully demanding. They understand that only She could have let them out of their chrysalis and allowed them to mutate at last into that creature: a slave. Whatever She does to them then, it is their sole purpose to submit to it, She is the one who has created them. That is the power that will make them serve when they are feeling sick, love when they are ignored, smile when they are disdained. They know they have been retributed beyond expectation to start with when being enslaved.

Accepting the reason why he needed to be enslaved gives a slave the power to serve, in the same way as learning to be helpful to others is what gives people the strength to solve their own problems.

And then there are those who ask to be served by their mistress. Beats me. In the name of reciprocity I suppose? Blah... they do need help, indeed.

_____________________________

Bien sûr, des fois, j'ai pensé mettre fin à mes jours, mais je ne savais jamais par lequel commencer.

nanshakh.com

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 6:13:02 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nanshakh
The confusion probably comes from the word "submission". Those want to see in it the kind of submission they enjoyed as children. The kind that implies a little show of obedience on their part, in return for the complete slavery of the parents. Dropped into the big wild world, they whine! Oh how ready they are to submit to anyone willing to take the burden again.

I think this is very well put, and it mirrors my frustrations when I was attempting to date submissive women online.  I eventually decided I would use CollarMe to date dommes (to build a relationship between equals), and use nilla sites to date women who might not identify as "submissive," but wanted a relationship where the man was in charge.  The #1 thing I was looking for was a woman who was an emotionally mature adult, and that was frikkin hard to find among sub profiles on a "lifestyle" site like this one.

Perhaps this is more an issue of online-kinkiness than kinkiness overall, but I have encountered a lot of people who use their sexual orientation as an excuse for immaturity and irresponsibility.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to nanshakh)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 6:36:36 PM   
Lockit


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I'm thankful that I can live my idea of dominance without all that demanding, ungrateful shit. To each their own... but I would not want what Nanshakh discribes.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 6:49:16 PM   
MzMia


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Wonderful post {as usual}.
When I first "discovered" this lifestyle, I mistakenly thought that the majority
of "submissive"/"slave" males were going to be akin to the "soubrette's".
Damn if I wasn't heading for a BIG letdown!
There can be real joy in "serving", but real serving is a very hard job, and not
for the flakey or faint of heart.
 
Bravo!


< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/15/2009 6:53:58 PM >


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to nanshakh)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 6:58:38 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I'm thankful that I can live my idea of dominance without all that demanding, ungrateful shit. To each their own... but I would not want what Nanshakh discribes.


I have to say that I wouldn't want to be what Nanshakh describes, either.  I'm afraid I was lost at " . . . there is no grandiloquent selfless sacrifice in submission, but a vital achievement for the slave, a natural act of symbiosis, where one creature becomes engulfed into another, absorbed, sucked.  Even lost. "

To have that feeling at times?  Yes.  To live that way?  No, not for me. 

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 7:19:12 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

So many times I see profiles and postings here in the forums from submissive males asking for a woman (actually, they ask for a Mistress, but that's another topic) who can make them the person they're meant to be.  They will say they are a victim of their own desires or need a woman (read; Mistress) to teach/train them to be what they should be.

My question is... Ladies, would you be interested in a man like this?  One who couldn't handle himself be it sexual, professional, medical/health or daily life? 

For the men... Is this what you seek?  A woman who can train you to be the person you "should" be?

I'm trying to understand this instead of passing judgement.  It just seems to be a recurring theme and I want to understand.  Thanks.

to teach/train them to be what they should be

Well I am not sure, but nowhere in this statement did the submissive say or imply that he needed help in the following areas

Sexual, professional, medical/health or daily life

The submissive is more than likely simply asked to be trained in such a way that he will be the best submissive he can be. Why would someone assume anything more without concrete evidence to support that conclusion?

An individual whose sole purpose is submission needs only the knowledge of what is expected of him or her and a vessel to use as a vocal point for that submission.


_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 8:25:52 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I have to say that I wouldn't want to be what Nanshakh describes, either.  I'm afraid I was lost at " . . . there is no grandiloquent selfless sacrifice in submission, but a vital achievement for the slave, a natural act of symbiosis, where one creature becomes engulfed into another, absorbed, sucked.  Even lost. "

To have that feeling at times?  Yes.  To live that way?  No, not for me. 


But that is in essence what slavery is. At least, the slavery I know. Woe be to the one who is not engulfed and absorbed—and gladly so—for it will be a quick and painful ride, entirely without that anesthetic in which, breaking free, you are churned out on the other side; broken, weary and finding yourself just a little more bitter.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 8:36:52 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I have to say that I wouldn't want to be what Nanshakh describes, either.  I'm afraid I was lost at " . . . there is no grandiloquent selfless sacrifice in submission, but a vital achievement for the slave, a natural act of symbiosis, where one creature becomes engulfed into another, absorbed, sucked.  Even lost. "

To have that feeling at times?  Yes.  To live that way?  No, not for me. 


But that is in essence what slavery is. At least, the slavery I know. Woe be to the one who is not engulfed and absorbed—and gladly so—for it will be a quick and painful ride, entirely without that anesthetic in which, breaking free, you are churned out on the other side; broken, weary and finding yourself just a little more bitter.


Okay damn it Marc, you just keep looking better and better.
Is it hot in here, or is it me?


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 9:09:55 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
I also love the Anais Nin quote...if you switch the gender references, it would fit beautifully in this forum. 


I thought of that, too, and you're quite right; the sexes can easily be switched in the quote.

Edited to add: I was going to do so, but the experience halfway through felt vandalous, and not at all without a possible thunder bolt from Ms. Nin hurled my way. I decided to let the readers make the inversion!



< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 10/15/2009 9:18:34 PM >


_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/15/2009 9:16:45 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

But that is in essence what slavery is. At least, the slavery I know. Woe be to the one who is not engulfed and absorbed—and gladly so—for it will be a quick and painful ride, entirely without that anesthetic in which, breaking free, you are churned out on the other side; broken, weary and finding yourself just a little more bitter.


Okay damn it Marc, you just keep looking better and better.
Is it hot in here, or is it me?



Are you implying that I once only looked "ok"?


_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 6:10:29 AM   
nanshakh


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:


Lockit:
I can live my idea of dominance without all that demanding, ungrateful shit. To each their own...

I do appreciate the open-mindedness of your "To each their own". Of course your qualifying my ideas as shit just before that, does somehow undermine your pretence of tolerance.


quote:


MzMia:
There can be real joy in "serving",


Thank you MzMia :) Oh absolutely! well said. It is very well described in a play by a Sacha Guitry, Désiré. There is a long tirade where he expands on the beauty and delight in obeying an order, especially when that order is given in a somewhat short, imperious tone by a beautiful and haughty woman.


quote:


MarcEsadrian:
Woe be to the one who is not engulfed and absorbed—and gladly so—for it will be a quick and painful ride, entirely without that anesthetic in which, breaking free, you are churned out on the other side; broken, weary and finding yourself just a little more bitter.


That is very beautifully said!

_____________________________

Bien sûr, des fois, j'ai pensé mettre fin à mes jours, mais je ne savais jamais par lequel commencer.

nanshakh.com

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 7:02:32 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
the experience halfway through felt vandalous, and not at all without a possible thunder bolt from Ms. Nin hurled my way.

A femdom who used to post here used the following Nin quote as her signature line for a while.  A brilliant recasting of sentiment, I thought.  Perhaps she was struck by lightning.

I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 9:19:17 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:


ORIGINAL: nanshakh

quote:


Lockit:
I can live my idea of dominance without all that demanding, ungrateful shit. To each their own...

I do appreciate the open-mindedness of your "To each their own". Of course your qualifying my ideas as shit just before that, does somehow undermine your pretence of tolerance.


Oh!  I could be wrong, but I thought that Lockit was referring to the demanding, ungrateful shit of the 'wrong kind of subs' (want of a better phrase) that you were talking about earlier.

_____________________________

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(in reply to nanshakh)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 10:32:26 AM   
Lockit


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Some people may give no consideration for a slave, no concern, no decent living conditions as discribed by Nanshakh, but I wouldn't expect someone to accept that type of treatment and I would not provide such treatment. My comments above were not tolerant and were more sarcastic than anything else. I don't believe I even lol'd as I typically do.

Asking someone to be devoted, to love, to be so service oriented and to thank me for the place of slave in my life sounds like some real emotional unbalance and kink I would not take part in. So to each their own... there are those that play life that way, but I wouldn't be one of them.

The fantasy of this type of slavery is something I see more than it actually being lived out. But then I do have an isolated life and don't run in those circles.

It is difficult to find a submissive or slave that is healthy of mind, lives a functional life and is loving and devoted... but I have had healthy relationships that were or would be labled role reversal and not real kinky and I had some real devotion and service, all without the lack of consideration and demanding woman in heels. There is some middle ground.

For those who wish to live this way... go for it, but it is not for me and I don't feel it is healthy and promotes healthy self ego. I do not feel superior in a way that would promote this type of slavery.

I do agree many have that role of victim down real well and some are do me sexual seekers... but there are slaves I have known that were treated well and beloved and submissive's that live healthy live's that can be more than a service and devotion that can include some self. I am not sure anyone is born a slave of little consideration... I do however believe they are created by life experiences.

My opinion... and yes... intolerance.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 11:48:52 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I have to say that I wouldn't want to be what Nanshakh describes, either.  I'm afraid I was lost at " . . . there is no grandiloquent selfless sacrifice in submission, but a vital achievement for the slave, a natural act of symbiosis, where one creature becomes engulfed into another, absorbed, sucked.  Even lost. "

To have that feeling at times?  Yes.  To live that way?  No, not for me. 


But that is in essence what slavery is. At least, the slavery I know. Woe be to the one who is not engulfed and absorbed—and gladly so—for it will be a quick and painful ride, entirely without that anesthetic in which, breaking free, you are churned out on the other side; broken, weary and finding yourself just a little more bitter.


Hmmm.  A lot for me to get my head around here.  As I said, for me, feeling engulfed and absorbed is something that seems headily delightful - but to live with that feeling, day in, day out . . .  I know Anais Nin applauds that feeling - but, of course, she didn't have it constantly.  She had to find time in her life of slavery to write ten volumes of journals, for a start!

The reality of that slavery seems all but impossible to achieve for me, at least, in my present state of ignorance of the practicalities of D/s life.  Some questions, therefore.  Is this possible when living 24/7 in a D/s relationship?  Also, have you, personally, felt this engulfing that you and nanshakh mention (given that, as your profile states, you're a dominant)? 

The reason I ask these kinds of questions is that I find it difficult to see all this as 'human'.  I'm trying to picture it.  She's come home in the evening knackered, miserable with her job, wanting to doss in front of the TV.  She may not wish to exploit or engulf anyone, and might feel utterly unlike being superior to anyone, much less being their Goddess.  She may, instead, want to get slaughtered with a bottle of wine, crack jokes and watch rubbish on the TV.  She may even want to fart, god help her.

You see what I'm getting at?  The poetry of some of the posts on this thread has gone from this picture.  But, then, large lumps of human life aren't poetry anyway.  I may fantasise about being an engulfed slave, but feel that I can only live it for short bursts of time.  She, on the other hand, may feel that she'd like to be treated as a goddess with an utterly selfless slave - though, the moment she wants to slip out of her heels but hesitates because she feels that this would destroy my image of her as a goddess - at that moment, I'm going to be imprisoning her.  It's that spectre of Marilyn Monroe all over again, for me - goddess to millions of men, but all the time, her soul is dying.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 10/16/2009 11:53:14 AM >


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(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 12:58:10 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Hmmm. A lot for me to get my head around here. As I said, for me, feeling engulfed and absorbed is something that seems headily delightful - but to live with that feeling, day in, day out . . . I know Anais Nin applauds that feeling - but, of course, she didn't have it constantly. She had to find time in her life of slavery to write ten volumes of journals, for a start!


The Anais Nin quote was provided in another context. Specifically, to speak to the concept of personal accountability in seeking submission. As for my own thoughts on slavery, the source of inspiration is no one but myself and my own experiences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Also, have you, personally, felt this engulfing that you and nanshakh mention (given that, as your profile states, you're a dominant)?


Indeed. I have served and I have been served. I have experience—long-term and short, "successful" and "failed"— in relationships structured around the dynamics of overt dominance and submission. Nanshakh describes the ideal impetus and state of slavery that, in my experience, is seldom perfectly achieved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The reason I ask these kinds of questions is that I find it difficult to see all this as 'human'. I'm trying to picture it. She's come home in the evening knackered, miserable with her job, wanting to doss in front of the TV. She may not wish to exploit or engulf anyone, and might feel utterly unlike being superior to anyone, much less being their Goddess. She may, instead, want to get slaughtered with a bottle of wine, crack jokes and watch rubbish on the TV.


Your question puts a finger upon the vital difference that needs to be illustrated between service-oriented dominance, and the real thing. Those who serve me know I am human, and therefore serve a human. This idea is not antithetical to good servitude, but is in fact crucial if it is to take root. Slavery (in this forum's context) is about adding to a woman's betterment, comfort and gain. If she has to be a card-board image for a male to project his fantasy upon, her power and influence is dubious. The Mistress I know does what she wants, when, where and how. She is living quite comfortably, in fact, and has no trouble being human. Everything ebbs and flows at her will, not for poetry or theater, but for herself.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
She, on the other hand, may feel that she'd like to be treated as a goddess with an utterly selfless slave - though, the moment she wants to slip out of her heels but hesitates because she feels that this would destroy my image of her as a goddess - at that moment, I'm going to be imprisoning her.


These thoughts are wise to have, and I'd say any man seeking to serve who does not deeply consider what you've written is doomed to failure. Indeed, many men are wholly ignorant of the fetter they place on their "Goddesses". But the dominant woman, the true alpha female, doesn't allow others to define her. She does not accept the roles fetish aficionados foist upon her. She is Mistress of her own image, for she knows the task inherent in true power is not to allow others to define you. She creates her own beauty and her own world, and only those who wish to serve in it will find entrance.


_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/16/2009 3:54:14 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
MORE...
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Completely off topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave
In the leather community, this view is very common held.

- pixel



Would you care to link some references to this? I would be completely interested in reading a leather viewpoint that is so vastly different from My own and and those I'm familiar with in the leather community.



Hi Lady Pact,
As you know, much of what's considered "Leather" is traditionally passed on by word of mouth and can sometimes have a regional slant to it. That being said, I took an hour or so to see what I could find on the net, looking mostly at some of Jack Rinella's archived articles, Guy Baldwin interviews and various other things, but none of them seemed to specifically address the subject in a manner that was as direct as what I suspect you're asking for. However, by my interpretation, one of the Baldwin interviews (http://www.sensuoussadie.com/interviews/guybaldwininterview.htm) and several of Jack Rinella's articles (http://www.leatherviews.com/home.htm) were implicit to much of what I wrote in my previous post (3 of Rinella's I'd refer you to are: "The difference Between a Boy and a Slave", "Intimacy", and "Expectations and Regulations Concerning Voluntary Servitude" all of which can be found under the "Kinky Info" tab). How you might choose to interpret them from your side of the kneel could of course be very different than when viewed from my side.

Further, there were between 2 and 4 sessions at South Plains Leather Fest in earlier this year here in Dallas that I think support the same viewpoint. The title of one that was for Dominants only which immediately comes to mind was "Mastery in Service" (or something similar). Unfortunately, my program got pitched when I moved last month, so I'm not able to provide the names of any of the other sessions or presenters.

So to respond in a more direct manner than using citations, I'd like to use a few examples that will perhaps better illustrate the point I was attempting to make.

As a Dominant, wouldn't you say you feel protective of your submissive and responsible for him in many ways; particularly when you're engaged in play for example?? That's not meant to discount, that as an adult, he has a general responsibility to care for himself as well. If so, isn't your taking on the responsibility of ownership and protection as his Dominant a form of being in service to him? As we know one another, isn't it the case that you also feel a responsibility to mentor him by giving him rituals to perform that will help him in his daily life in some form or another? Isn't that also performing a service of some kind for him?

As a Dominant, I presume you have a need to both feel and express your dominance. As a submissive, I think its understood that each of us has comparable needs to express our submissiveness toward a Dominant in some manner we find meaningful. So, in expressing your Dominance toward one of us, aren't you also providing a service to us at the same time by allowing us an opportunity to respond in a submissive manner? Isn't that the yin - yang that drives things between us? Some describe a D/s relationship as a power-exchange. Couldn't that also be referred to as an exchange of dissimilar, yet complimentary services between two people?



quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
With that in mind, I will go on to say you're right in your general viewpoint, however. We all need to get something out of serving. In this sense, there is really no such thing as an "unconditional" servitude, unless of course one desires a slave by force. What conditions are met for the servant by serving? The experiential fulfillment in serving, in being allowed a chance to kneel at the feet of the one who has inspired us so. That, in my opinion, is the only condition I find sacred. For me, it's not about fixing or compensating for a person's dysfunctional character in a grandiose form of D/s therapy. It's true personal improvement often follows with good leadership, but to make it the primary impetus from the outset smacks of something wrong to me. If you need to be spiritually "completed" by serving your Goddess, I understand that, and I don't think the OP is questioning that notion. It's the willful desire to want someone to repair you and perhaps even take away your personal accountability to yourself that I find suspect.


I completely understand the desire to serve Marc. I'm very service oriented myself and find I need that as part of a dynamic between myself and a Dominant. When not in service, I can tend to feel a bit lost, especially at first. When that happens, I usually volunteer the extra time to the community here or put it into some other worthy cause. I'll add that I can also find pleasure while suffering during a scene when I see that what we're doing brings a huge smile to the face of a Domme I'm bonded with.

Like you, I have no desire to be turned into a "blank slate" and remade into someone else; losing who I am in the process. If a woman feels a need to do that, why would she even want me to begin with?


quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Much like LadyPact, I would be curious to read any links you have to offer in regards to views within the leather community that would relate to the idea of a sub being self-serving with his reasons for approaching a domme...besides the obvious.


CarrieO,
I'm not certain I follow what you mean by "the idea of a sub being self-serving with his reasons for approaching a domme...besides the obvious.". I didn't make an assertion of that nature. Have I misunderstood what you've written or is there perhaps a typo? Otherwise, my reply to Lady Pact is above which I hope provides you with what you're looking for. Although written for gay men, I think you'll find it worth your time to read some of the articles on Jack Rinella's web site. Ditto for anything by Guy Baldwin.

- pixel


_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 60
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