quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

ORLY, and exactly what territories have we conquered and taken over?

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ORIGINAL: Brain

It has to do with money. Like starting the war in Iraq to get oil in order to keep the United States economy lubricated.

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

ORLY, and exactly what territories have we conquered and taken over?

In addition to the list of territories that we directly control, like Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Samoa, one could argue that every American state that we did not pay for was taken by brute force- New Mexico, Arizona, California, Oregon, Colorado, Utah, either taken from the Native Americans or Mexico.

But we are an Empire not just because of the territories we directly control. We currently have about 1,000 military bases around the world. ONE THOUSAND military posts scattered around the world, from Greenland to Diego Garcia, from Japan to Germany.

It is hard for Americans to understand this, but there was a time when this was not so; there was a time when we stayed within our own borders and American soldiers were asked to die for America, not Helmand Province in Afghanistan.

I would ask Americans to consider how hateful and destructive it is to keep occupying armies on other people's country; Imagine for a moment if you were to wake up tomorrow and see German fighter jets screaming across the Manhattan skyline; if you saw British tanks rumbling down the streets of Chicago; if you went to a bar and it was crowded with Italian soldiers;

No matter how much we like our foreign allies, it would make my blood boil to see foreign troops parading through my town- so what makes us think others don't feel that way?
How much hatred and anger are we generating by being an occupying Empire, who maintains an army on nearly every bit of foreign soil on earth?

There was a time when American leaders did not sit around casually discussing which governments of the world we should allow to exist, and which ones we should topple; when we did not insist on treating the entire globe as a chess board on which to play the Great Game of political intrigue.

We are following exactly the pattern of the British Empire- the same Empire that people like Washington shed blood to get rid of.

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin

the US being the last made country,

quote:

then maybe the US being a conglomerate of the world's peoples now seek to right the wrongs in the lands of their ancestors, effectively become the nation that polices the world.

I wonder how much ancestry plays a part in the U.S.'s interactions abroad ?

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

ORLY, and exactly what territories have we conquered and taken over?

In addition to the list of territories that we directly control, like Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Samoa, one could argue that every American state that we did not pay for was taken by brute force- New Mexico, Arizona, California, Oregon, Colorado, Utah, either taken from the Native Americans or Mexico.

But we are an Empire not just because of the territories we directly control. We currently have about 1,000 military bases around the world. ONE THOUSAND military posts scattered around the world, from Greenland to Diego Garcia, from Japan to Germany.

It is hard for Americans to understand this, but there was a time when this was not so; there was a time when we stayed within our own borders and American soldiers were asked to die for America, not Helmand Province in Afghanistan.

I would ask Americans to consider how hateful and destructive it is to keep occupying armies on other people's country; Imagine for a moment if you were to wake up tomorrow and see German fighter jets screaming across the Manhattan skyline; if you saw British tanks rumbling down the streets of Chicago; if you went to a bar and it was crowded with Italian soldiers;

No matter how much we like our foreign allies, it would make my blood boil to see foreign troops parading through my town- so what makes us think others don't feel that way?
How much hatred and anger are we generating by being an occupying Empire, who maintains an army on nearly every bit of foreign soil on earth?
There was a time when American leaders did not sit around casually discussing which governments of the world we should allow to exist, and which ones we should topple; when we did not insist on treating the entire globe as a chess board on which to play the Great Game of political intrigue.

We are following exactly the pattern of the British Empire- the same Empire that people like Washington shed blood to get rid of.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


Late in the 19th Century, American policymakers forgot the principles of the Founding Fathers and decided that we should become an Empire, not a Republic.

ORLY, and exactly what territories have we conquered and taken over?

You can start with this, but a good history book might be beneficial.


Important Quotations from Downes v. Bidwell


The Spanish-American War, ignited by the February 1898 explosion of the USS Maine and ending with the December Treaty of Paris (signed Dec. 10, 1898; came into force April 11, 1899), was a short-lived event with dramatic repercussions.

By the terms of the treaty ending the war, Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, Cuba, and Guam. The United States then found itself in the novel (for Americans) position of becoming a world power with overseas territories, in the tradition of Britain, France, and Spain.

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

ORLY, and exactly what territories have we conquered and taken over?

In addition to the list of territories that we directly control, like Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Samoa, one could argue that every American state that we did not pay for was taken by brute force- New Mexico, Arizona, California, Oregon, Colorado, Utah, either taken from the Native Americans or Mexico. you cant build an empire before youre a country.

But we are an Empire not just because of the territories we directly control. We currently have about 1,000 military bases around the world. ONE THOUSAND military posts scattered around the world, from Greenland to Diego Garcia, from Japan to Germany. miltary posts do not make the country they are located in part of our empire.

It is hard for Americans to understand this, but there was a time when this was not so; there was a time when we stayed within our own borders and American soldiers were asked to die for America, not Helmand Province in Afghanistan.

I would ask Americans to consider how hateful and destructive it is to keep occupying armies on other people's country; Imagine for a moment if you were to wake up tomorrow and see German fighter jets screaming across the Manhattan skyline; if you saw British tanks rumbling down the streets of Chicago; if you went to a bar and it was crowded with Italian soldiers; I would have no problem if they were invited their for our defense and protection

No matter how much we like our foreign allies, it would make my blood boil to see foreign troops parading through my town- so what makes us think others don't feel that way?
How much hatred and anger are we generating by being an occupying Empire, who maintains an army on nearly every bit of foreign soil on earth? none, since we arent an occupying empire

There was a time when American leaders did not sit around casually discussing which governments of the world we should allow to exist, and which ones we should topple; when we did not insist on treating the entire globe as a chess board on which to play the Great Game of political intrigue.

We are following exactly the pattern of the British Empire- the same Empire that people like Washington shed blood to get rid of.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A weak attempt, even for you. The Spanish American war had nothing to do with empire building. Cuban's wanted independence from Spain and their concentration camps. McKinley tried to stay out of it until the sinking of the Maine.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A weak attempt, even for you. The Spanish American war had nothing to do with empire building. Cuban's wanted independence from Spain and their concentration camps. McKinley tried to stay out of it until the sinking of the Maine.

Well, let's try to see if we can make some sense of this Willbeur.

You asked:

ORLY, and exactly what territories have we conquered and taken over?

And I answered:

By the terms of the treaty ending the war, Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, Cuba, and Guam. The United States then found itself in the novel (for Americans) position of becoming a world power with overseas territories, in the tradition of Britain, France, and Spain.

So tell me what part seems to be confusing you and I'll do my best to help out.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You appear to be the confused one. We didnt conquer and take over PR and Cuba which was my question. They revolted against Spain and then we (reluctantly) helped them. When those revolutions succeeded with our help, Spain ceded them. Phillipines and Guam I dont know enough about and dont give a shit. Your claim of empire building is vapor, period.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You appear to be the confused one. We didnt conquer and take over PR and Cuba which was my question. They revolted against Spain and then we (reluctantly) helped them. When those revolutions succeeded with our help, Spain ceded them. Phillipines and Guam I dont know enough about and dont give a shit. Your claim of empire building is vapor, period.

How interesting.

So, let's summarize, yet again.

I'm wrong because you "dont know enough about and dont give a shit".

So how about you come back and talk to me when you do know enough about and give a shit about the topic you are trying to discuss?

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

After reading the last two postings.....I have come to a decision,in an attempt to not become willbeurised(caught posting about a topic I don't give a shit about)I pledge to only post on those topics I do give a shit about.
Yep...thtas my new policy......of course due to factors beyond my control this policy can not be enforced retroactively.My apoligies made for any posting that might have been posted proir to this new giving a shit policy.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


When you come back and admit that your PR and Cuba examples have 0 to do with empire building. Ie on the 12th.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


When you come back and admit that your PR and Cuba examples have 0 to do with empire building. Ie on the 12th.

Empire building was never what I responded to.

I responded to your erroneous claim that the U.S. had never conquered any other territories.

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

wow. new depths, even for you. The original post from animus rex was about empire building. I responded asking what territories we conquered and took over..ie the definition of empire building by force.

And to preempt more semantic horseshit from the master (or at least the masters best apprentice), we did not conquer Cuba and PR, we supported their revolt against Spain, so even this weak retort is wrong.