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People Politicians - 11/22/2009 8:15:42 AM

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

Increasingly I am noticing on here some of the posters are starting to devolve into politician parlance, they are arguing about the meaning of a word, phrase and sentence, not offerring an oppinion on the subject at hand. This is especially noticeable when there is talk about actual politicians, you know, them in office, posters who comment do exactly what those in office do, they argue the semantics of the wording, not the actual subject at hand. Now I dont know if this is a game for the answerer, a game of beating about the bush because they have no opinnion or useful words to add, but do they realise that in this, they are becoming very like the very people they comment about and sometimes condemn, why expect a politician to do their job, if a lay person engages in the same behaviour. Perhaps the world is becoming a world of talkers and not do-ers, if change is wanted, it starts with people.

The educated here, just have to understand, not everyone has high levels of education, or even a personal capacity to understand the words they use, so bear that in mind, and give people a break, if they ask something they would like an answer to, give it, if you are interested, not rip their wording to shreds, to seek a hidden meaning that was not intended, and there push it in the posters face.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/22/2009 8:17:24 AM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 8:49:54 AM

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Increasingly I am noticing on here some of the posters are starting to devolve into politician parlance, they are arguing about the meaning of a word, phrase and sentence, not offerring an oppinion on the subject at hand. This is especially noticeable when there is talk about actual politicians, you know, them in office, posters who comment do exactly what those in office do, they argue the semantics of the wording, not the actual subject at hand. Now I dont know if this is a game for the answerer, a game of beating about the bush because they have no opinnion or useful words to add, but do they realise that in this, they are becoming very like the very people they comment about and sometimes condemn, why expect a politician to do their job, if a lay person engages in the same behaviour. Perhaps the world is becoming a world of talkers and not do-ers, if change is wanted, it starts with people.

The educated here, just have to understand, not everyone has high levels of education, or even a personal capacity to understand the words they use, so bear that in mind, and give people a break, if they ask something they would like an answer to, give it, if you are interested, not rip their wording to shreds, to seek a hidden meaning that was not intended, and there push it in the posters face.

Actually, Aneirin, the proper term is "push it into the poster's face". How can we take your postings or opinions seriously when you make grammatical errors like that? Obviously you are one of the (insert political view opposite to the poster's here) who is just mindless, clueless and hates this country.

Ok...I do hope everyone realizes that was a joke. What isn't a joke is the fact that you are absolutely right. I long ago realized that the most of the people posting here are more interested in scoring points than in making them. I can't claim to be blameless in this. It's hard sometimes not to sink to the lowest common denominator and respond in kind.

I would join you in a call for greater respect and an effort to rise to a higher level, but I remember the slings and arrows I got when I dared suggest that calling an opposing viewpoint "nazi" or "communist' might not be the most constructive thing in rational debate.

I am not sure whether this tactic is a sad thing or just the way it is.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 9:14:35 AM

Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline

Well I can tell you one thing for sure. Liberals are the champions when it comes to arguing about the semantics of a word. Remember, when Bill Clinton was under oath testifying about the Monica Lewinsky scandal. He knew he was guilty, but figured out if he could twist the meaning of the word "is", I believe it was, then he could convince them he hadn't lied under oath, which is probably cause for impeachment.

No man is above the law in this country, but it seems like lawyers, liberals, and criminals only think it applies to them when they get caught. hehe

Then we have the other side who thinks the only thing that matters is absolute fact. Well the truth is you can selectively pick any fact, then omit the other facts, to make your opinion look correct. It will take a common sense politician any day over someone who can give a good speech, and deceive the public. If people had listened to Ross Perot back in the 90's, we would have already been close to eliminating the national debt.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 9:40:09 AM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Well I can tell you one thing for sure. Liberals are the champions when it comes to arguing about the semantics of a word. Remember, when Bill Clinton was under oath testifying about the Monica Lewinsky scandal. He knew he was guilty, but figured out if he could twist the meaning of the word "is", I believe it was, then he could convince them he hadn't lied under oath, which is probably cause for impeachment.

Is that anything like torture being enhanced interrogation?

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 9:42:36 AM

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Well I can tell you one thing for sure. Liberals are the champions when it comes to arguing about the semantics of a word. Remember, when Bill Clinton was under oath testifying about the Monica Lewinsky scandal. He knew he was guilty, but figured out if he could twist the meaning of the word "is", I believe it was, then he could convince them he hadn't lied under oath, which is probably cause for impeachment.

No man is above the law in this country, but it seems like lawyers, liberals, and criminals only think it applies to them when they get caught. hehe

Then we have the other side who thinks the only thing that matters is absolute fact. Well the truth is you can selectively pick any fact, then omit the other facts, to make your opinion look correct. It will take a common sense politician any day over someone who can give a good speech, and deceive the public. If people had listened to Ross Perot back in the 90's, we would have already been close to eliminating the national debt.

Your post is the perfect example of what I spoke of in the level of anger and hostility that pervades most of the discussions here. In one post you managed to insult every liberal and progressive with comparisons to "lawyers" and "criminals" (neither particularly positive company to be within), dredge up a misdeed from over a decade ago to show how awful we "liberals' are...and then blame the entire thing on us. I have to admit that my first reaction was to respond in kind, and there is plenty of ammunition.

But it does go to illustrate the problem, and who chooses to be a part of it.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 9:48:25 AM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Increasingly I am noticing on here some of the posters are starting to devolve into politician parlance, they are arguing about the meaning of a word, phrase and sentence, not offerring an oppinion on the subject at hand.

I'm really not understanding the meaning of the post Aneirin.

You seem to be arguing that we should not be talking politically on a political board.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 10:02:19 AM

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

Politics are about people, not the meaning of a word in context to another word. By all means talk politics as it applies to people, but talking about the words used is dodging the issue, tell me isn't that a tactic of those in office, when they really can't be bothered to do their job and effect change.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 10:51:17 AM

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Joined: 8/23/2004
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Politics and legislation are all about the meaning of words.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 10:52:48 AM

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
No man is above the law in this country, but it seems like lawyers, liberals, and criminals only think it applies to them when they get caught. hehe

Seriously? You really think that?
In point of fact, the Bush Administration broke the law numerous times, and no one has been prosecuted. Yet its defenders like Peggy Noonan urge us to "keep on walking", to ignore the lawbreaking and criminality.

One could argue that in fact, the President and his aides are above the law.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 10:54:58 AM

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Politics and legislation are all about the meaning of words.

Not quite. words are used to define and express legislation. It isn't really the same thing and (as Anerin says) having a go at somebody for splitting an infinitive or misprisioning some daft bit of jargon doesn't really belong in a political discussion in the first place. It's an evasion tactic, not an answer.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 11:15:55 AM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Politics and legislation are all about the meaning of words.

Not quite. words are used to define and express legislation. It isn't really the same thing and (as Anerin says) having a go at somebody for splitting an infinitive or misprisioning some daft bit of jargon doesn't really belong in a political discussion in the first place. It's an evasion tactic, not an answer.

Well, that's what I've been trying to figure out here.

Are we talking about posters criticizing other posters or are we talking about not debating the meaning of words in a political discussion?

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 11:35:28 AM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I have a "degree" but I don't think that qualifies me or anyone as, "educated."
As usual some of the smartest people in business and other fields never even completed high school or college.
One of my managers once said, "I'll take experience over degrees anyday!"
So don't worry about it.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 12:19:53 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Well I can tell you one thing for sure. Liberals are the champions when it comes to arguing about the semantics of a word. Remember, when Bill Clinton was under oath testifying about the Monica Lewinsky scandal. He knew he was guilty, but figured out if he could twist the meaning of the word "is", I believe it was, then he could convince them he hadn't lied under oath, which is probably cause for impeachment.

Is that anything like torture being enhanced interrogation?

Or terrorism being a "man-made disaster"?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 12:22:26 PM

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Politics are about people, not the meaning of a word in context to another word. By all means talk politics as it applies to people, but talking about the words used is dodging the issue, tell me isn't that a tactic of those in office, when they really can't be bothered to do their job and effect change.

Of course, just to put things in context, Aneirin, we are dealing with a community who has endless discussions about the difference between the words "submissive" and "slave" as well the definition of "true dom/sub/master/slave". It's not just in politics that this wordplay takes place. It's a common occurrence in the world of cyber posting.

Some defining of terms can be useful. After a while, it's just a hobby.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 1:50:45 PM

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Well, that's what I've been trying to figure out here.

Are we talking about posters criticizing other posters or are we talking about not debating the meaning of words in a political discussion?

Both, I think. Come on, I'm sure you've seen a fair few threads here where people are splitting hairs over definitions rather than trying to answer a point somebody's raised? That's often extended into either a backhanded diss ("you have no idea what you're talking about, you don't even know what that word means") or outright abuse ("is English your first language you idiot?") as well.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 3:11:46 PM

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
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Bill Clinton broke the law when he lied under oath to a Federal grand jury. To bad for him that a stained blue dress showed up.

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: People Politicians - 11/22/2009 3:20:34 PM

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Bill Clinton broke the law when he lied under oath to a Federal grand jury. To bad for him that a stained blue dress showed up.

Quite. Far worse than suspending rights defined in the constitution indefinitely for no good reason and invading a foreign nation under false pretenses in order to provide your VP's company with an oil rich vassal state.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to servantforuse)

RE: People Politicians - 11/23/2009 12:38:47 AM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Bill Clinton broke the law when he lied under oath to a Federal grand jury. To bad for him that a stained blue dress showed up.

Quite. Far worse than suspending rights defined in the constitution indefinitely for no good reason and invading a foreign nation under false pretenses in order to provide your VP's company with an oil rich vassal state.

Moon, you've got to get with the program here.

We are not allowed to talk about anything that happened during the Bush administration.

That's in the past, this is all about Obama now.

Unless, of course, you want to talk about Clinton or Carter.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/23/2009 12:42:57 AM >

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: People Politicians - 11/23/2009 2:37:14 AM

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline

[/quote]

Moon, you've got to get with the program here.

We are not allowed to talk about anything that happened during the Bush administration.

That's in the past, this is all about Obama now.

Unless, of course, you want to talk about Clinton or Carter.

[/quote]

Funny how that works around here. I have noticed that and I have not been on here that long

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: People Politicians - 11/23/2009 7:00:25 AM

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Bill Clinton broke the law when he lied under oath to a Federal grand jury. To bad for him that a stained blue dress showed up.

Quite. Far worse than suspending rights defined in the constitution indefinitely for no good reason and invading a foreign nation under false pretenses in order to provide your VP's company with an oil rich vassal state.

Moon, you've got to get with the program here.

We are not allowed to talk about anything that happened during the Bush administration.

That's in the past, this is all about Obama now.

Unless, of course, you want to talk about Clinton or Carter.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)

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