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RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/24/2009 4:05:08 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

Politesub53:
...one of my first posts here was asking how one could serve a Pro Domme long term, without unlimited funds.  Almost all of the answers i received suggested bartering some services, such as you have mentioned.  I think this could be a good arrangement as long as both parties agree on the "exchange" rate.


I don't know a slew of professionals, but I've met and conversed with a few.  Those I've talked with consider their professional involvement a business and hence the term "professional".  They look for reliable, reasonably affluent clients who are able to pay.  The goal isn't to convert paying clients into non-paying clients (which would ultimately render the business insolvent).  I've heard of professionals negotiating rates for long-term clients.  This is good business sense given that valued clients are typically those who pay without complication and who return again and again.  Where there is mutual comfort and/or a client has skills the domina needs for which she would otherwise pay, I could see why a domina might chose to barter.  For the most part though, I think bartering/non-paying  arrangements aren't the norm and thus it's unrealistic to think of this as a solution for clients who can't afford ongoing session fees.

Elan.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/25/2009 3:12:34 PM   
SaharahEve


Posts: 231
Joined: 6/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Ladies, do you ever feel that by setting these standards, you end up with men who are sort of being attentive/service-minded out of obligation - essentially to get to the carrot?


Ah yes, that is precisely what I was talking about in this post. Many men fall into the trap of seeing their "submission" as a transaction. If I do this for Her, She'll let me do this with Her or She'll do this for me. It is, unfortunately, a common thought process among many self-styled "slaves", and I find it abhorrent.

This doesn't mean I don't find an exchange of some form in an M/s relationship. There will always be some form of reward, some sort of pay-off for the submissive or slave, but it is not in what they get...it's what they give. For giving is what they get. To me, the only motive that is pure in slavery is when the slave derives happiness through his Mistress's happiness. In essence:

I serve because it makes me happy.
Mistress's happiness is my reward in servitude.
All other pleasure is secondary and I have no right demanding it.


That is the bare bones mantra, if you will. If you find yourself keeping points, making demands, measuring what you're getting vs. what you're giving, seeing this or that as fair or unfair, or prostituting her in some way for your fetishes, you are probably trapped in some form of "barter system" mentality. You are not submitting for the right reasons if you are claiming to be a slave, or even submissive to a larger degree. At least, not in my book. Submitting for the right reason doesn't happen overnight. It requires personal context and the right attitude from the outset. Sounds easy when it's written out so generally like that, but this is where many fail.


_____________________________

Saharah


S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

nanshakh.com



(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/25/2009 6:38:55 PM   
Eivarden


Posts: 101
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
Personally this is how I feel in vanilla relationships as well.

Allot of the "standards" guys follow from obligation, rather than wanting to do something simply to make their partner happy.

I get allot of crap from my way of doing things, but I make a habit of not giving presents on the occasions I would be obligated to give a present.

This way I can give them randomly through out the year, and solely because I was thinking of her, and wanting to make her happy.

Not because it's X month X day, or w/e. Otherwise the romance is gone, and there wasn't much reason to do it, other than trying to get sum.

quote:

I serve because it makes me happy.
Mistress's happiness is my reward in servitude.
All other pleasure is secondary and I have no right demanding it.


Not that I have anything against this, but I figured I'd say nothing "technically" changed.

They STILL are getting what THEY want.

Even if it IS YOUR happiness.

Usually I get this type of comment when I'm trying to please them.

*shrug*


< Message edited by Eivarden -- 11/25/2009 6:41:56 PM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/25/2009 9:21:59 PM   
eihwaz


Posts: 367
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Eivarden
Allot of the "standards" guys follow from obligation, rather than wanting to do something simply to make their partner happy.

I get allot of crap from my way of doing things, but I make a habit of not giving presents on the occasions I would be obligated to give a present.

For every woman I've ever been involved with, the exertion I make seeking a gift for her on a special occasion is more important than the gift itself.  Honoring her on a special day that she values means I value her.

(in reply to Eivarden)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/25/2009 9:27:32 PM   
Eivarden


Posts: 101
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eivarden
Allot of the "standards" guys follow from obligation, rather than wanting to do something simply to make their partner happy.

I get allot of crap from my way of doing things, but I make a habit of not giving presents on the occasions I would be obligated to give a present.

For every woman I've ever been involved with, the exertion I make seeking a gift for her on a special occasion is more important than the gift itself.  Honoring her on a special day that she values means I value her.



Nothing wrong with that.

(in reply to eihwaz)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/25/2009 10:20:36 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


When subs and bottoms come here looking for advice, they almost always are told to figure out how they can serve: handiman, computer service, massage therapy, cooking, whatever.   Do dominant women essentially barter either "relationship potential" (ie, the only way you have a chance to be slave to this "Mistress") or topping (ie, the only way I will consider spanking you or putting you in chastity) for services rendered?





I agree with most here: I wouldn't be interested in 'pay for play', as someone said above that it's 'I do this for Her/She does that to me' dynamic which whiffs of fee-for-service/prostitution/'tribute'.
I think it started with a lot of CO posters coaching others to put their skills in their profiles/what can you offer a Domme?
I use their interests as a sieve: if he's interested only in libertarian politics and US college football and has museums and OSODD as hard limits, we're not gonna be compatible, no matter how sweet his ass.
Like a vanilla relationship, I have the usual hard limits: straight, smart, single, sane subbie men as a minimum before considering them as 'relationship material'. And like any vanilla, it's the little personal inexpensive gifts that I cherish the most: poems, postcards, photos, that still make me smile when I see them. I do my own home repairs, cooking, computer service, and I'm more Dommely for doing them, and I love massaging a good purring man. If there is something in particular he likes to do to say, 'I appreciate you,' great! But I'd much rather go to the movies or Take him to bed than watch him paint the garage. I love to see free fireworks with a good sub man, and would never be the pedicured top on a yacht with a needy whiny twitchy switchy do-me bottom foot-fetishist.
Boom!

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/25/2009 10:59:00 PM   
Drifa


Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline
The reality is that you can only have sex or BDSM play a limited number of hours in a day. If there is to be a relationship, then both dom and sub had better have other things to bring to the table or all you are doing is hiring sexual services.

I managed to intrigue my Lady right after meeting her by offering to scratch her back. Not a backrub, or anything overtly sexual. Just a comfortable, now-doesn't-that-feel-better backscratch.  Then we sat down and started talking at length, and discovered that we both had brains and were interested in many similar things.  That backscratch was a direct service, delivered non-sexually. It communicated a lot of things, including both my direct sexual interest and the fact that I was content to offer service.

Later, I heard her pickup was on the fritz and drove up midweek the 70 miles from my town to hers and did a tuneup and brake job. She fed me dinner, then I was *supposed* to sleep on the couch because it had gotten late. She changed her mind, stalked out to the living room, took my hand, and hauled me to my doom... er, ... her room, and much fun was had. I certainly couldn't characterize this as auto maintenance for sex. I jumped at the chance to get her attention and spend time with her, while pleasing her. I hadn't expected there to be any sex.

The next week she invited me to a very nice restaurant, to see how I'd dress and comport myself. Once again, plans for the couch were cast aside when she dragged me back to the bedroom. This time it wasn't sex, but maybe twelve hours of talking from the heart and soul about who were were and about our dreams. We finally went to sleep, I woke up early and sneaked out, made a grocery run, and when her eyes fluttered open a bit later, I had hot coffee ready, toasted bagels, lox, paper thin slices of onion, cream cheese, and chocolate dipped strawberries, with orange juice and champagne on the side, which I fed her in dainty bits in bed.

Fifteen years later, we're still together. As it happens, where I am weak, she is strong, and vice versa... she does computer hardware, I am the software wizard. When wildlife invades, if it does not have a backbone, it's her job to remove, all vertebrates are my responsibility. I hand over my entire income to her, and she is a wise steward of that money for us. When she can't see solutions to almost any sort of problem, she asks me, because I think sideways -- she's a scientist, I am an artist. 

There is a CONSTANT give-and-take in our relationship. To use MMORPG terminology, we have each found that it is wise to keep your Spousal Faction High. I try to tackle chores and cooking and laundry because I know it will please her, and if the kitchen is spick-and-span I am likely to get my own way on certain things because the gleaming sink earned 10,000 spousal faction points! She tends to handle farm tasks, and makes sure I have adequate time to play EverQuest 2 because that's the way I decompress after a tough day at work.  I deliver footrubs on request. I can be VERY VERY bossy when I see that she needs to go have a doctor check something out, or if it's an issue of personal safety, but generally she's the boss.

We stay together because we give one another love and respect, and we each contribute from our strengths to the relationship and our family unit. There is total power exchange because she handles all our finances and makes all the decisions -- but she does it after consulting with me. She doesn't micromanage my life, but she provides me the structure and security (and occasional spanking) I need. I give her my love, loyalty, personal service, housekeeping service, lawn maintenance and auto repair. She gives me mushy sentimental Valentine's day cards and roses and long, drawn out sessions of flogging, strapping, crop and so forth.

I don't see this is prostitution, just a holistic give and take.

(in reply to Tantriqu)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Subs serving out of obligation or barter - 11/26/2009 5:52:01 AM   
SaharahEve


Posts: 231
Joined: 6/25/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eivarden

quote:

I serve because it makes me happy.
Mistress's happiness is my reward in servitude.
All other pleasure is secondary and I have no right demanding it.


Not that I have anything against this, but I figured I'd say nothing "technically" changed.

They STILL are getting what THEY want. Even if it IS YOUR happiness.

Usually I get this type of comment when I'm trying to please them.

*shrug*


Eivarden,

Correct, though I believe I covered that, if you care to read the post again.

This doesn't mean I don't find an exchange of some form in an M/s relationship. There will always be some form of reward, some sort of pay-off for the submissive or slave, but it is not in what they get...it's what they give. For giving is what they get. To me, the only motive that is pure in slavery is when the slave derives happiness through his Mistress's happiness.



_____________________________

Saharah


S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

nanshakh.com



(in reply to Eivarden)
Profile   Post #: 28
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