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More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 8:32:30 PM

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From: Tamaris
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And so the catholic church apologised for it's abuse of English orphans sent to to Australia under the ruse of a better life and now the latest, the catholic church of Ireland has apologised for the sexual abuse of children and the cover up that ensued to protect the churches good name

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8382042.stm

We've had the apology for the inquisitions and the witch burnings, what are they going to apologise for next I wonder,

The crusades perhaps, or the conquest of the Americas, any ideas, what will be the next apology, what other millstones of guilt do they have hanging around their necks ?

But I wonder, why all these apologies of late, they never did it before, in past centuries, what's going on, what are they scared of ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 8:41:36 PM

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Why would you assume they are afraid of anything?

I personally see it as they finally have a Pope who believes in accountability and is stepping up to the admit the wrongs of the past, appologize for them officially, in order to move the church into the future. Some could term that as enlightenment.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 9:06:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why would you assume they are afraid of anything?

I personally see it as they finally have a Pope who believes in accountability and is stepping up to the admit the wrongs of the past, appologize for them officially, in order to move the church into the future. Some could term that as enlightenment.

Accountability?

Pope still protecting pedophile bishops

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 9:07:23 PM

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Sorry, had to laugh.

But I just saw 'Pope' and 'enlightened' in the same paragraph.

Thanks. Damn hilarious.

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 9:09:41 PM

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quote:

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Victims: Pope Benedict Protects Accused Pedophile Bishops Victims Say Pontiff Has Protected Bishop O'Connell, Cardinal Mahoney and 17 Others By BRIAN ROSS, RHONDA SCHWARTZ and ANNA SCHECTER Even a...

No offence rule. But that link is over 18 months old. We are speaking of the here and now. I do not condone what the Pope and the Church have done, partially one of the reasons i am no longer a practicing catholic. However, i do see some strides to "attempt" to make ammends for the past. I prefer to take a wait-and-see stance on how much more they will do.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 9:29:41 PM

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Don't hold your breath.

The link being 18 months old doesn't change the fact that this was the way the Church operated for 60 years, and probably longer, in regard to the rampant pedophilia among its clergy.

Only being held to account through legal action, which they also fought.

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 9:35:41 PM

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I agree. It IS a start. Noticed how buried deep in the article were the statements about how the government allowed this to occur? Even they knew, and did nothing. Lots of accountability to be had all around. No amount of appologies will ever make this right. Hopefully the trials will now continue and many of these priests will finally face charges.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 9:56:31 PM

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I will really believe the catholic church is moving forward, when it opens it's vaults and libraries to the world, for I understand what the Vatican holds behind closed doors was pillaged from all the countries that were conquered by the catholic church. What gold was stolen, what other riches do they have, I believe they owe the world what they have taken, give it back, and then I will believe they might be trying to make amends for their past.

The riches and opulance that the hierachy of the catholic church lived in comfort with, always apalled me, people starving, yet they live with riches, that to me, is not a worthy belief structure, but yet another way to power and wealth, and all that wealth taken from others in the name of god, or was it the holy roman church.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/26/2009 10:03:07 PM

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I am a substitute teacher and one of the local Catholic churches offered an evening of school safety. One of the rules was if I was a teacher working for the private schools, I would have to contact the main diocese if I suspected any type of sexual misconduct between a teacher or a priest and a student.

This does not set well with me because if these incidents happened at a public school, I would notify Department of Children and Families but I guess that is the Catholic Church's way of handling these situations.

I am no longer a practicing Catholic but it was an interesting enlightment going to this class.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 6:46:36 AM

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Ah, I got it, it's the internet, they are aware of it's power, and they know sooner or latter more damaging stuff will come out, so they best start apologising before it happens. An exercise in damage limitation, as they expect to hold onto their power.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 7:33:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Ah, I got it, it's the internet, they are aware of it's power, and they know sooner or latter more damaging stuff will come out, so they best start apologising before it happens. An exercise in damage limitation, as they expect to hold onto their power.

I think it has more to do with not losing first world donations. They hate to touch the principal. (Pun neither intended nor disavowed)

What the Vatican is afraid of is modernity. Apologies, at this stage, are merely negotiations.

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 7:39:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
But I wonder, why all these apologies of late, they never did it before, in past centuries, what's going on, what are they scared of ?

I honestly believe that Pope John Paul II apologized for the inquisition, and the church's involvement in the holocaust, because he felt that they were sins that he would have to face judgment for as head of the church. If I'm not mistaken he not only apologized publicly but also confessed them as sins and asked for God's forgiveness. I feel he knew he was nearing death and wanted to face St. Peter with a clear conscious. The apologies for child abuse are PR moves , if you are cynical, or given out of respect for the victims, if you aren't.

Also times have changed, the Catholic church is losing its grip in many places. It trying to move forward with the times. I grew up in San Diego CA, home of Mission De Alcala, California's first church. The mission was the location of the first European settlement on the west coast of America, and site of the first public works project in California, Old Mission Dam. When I first visited the dam on field trips, the historic plaque at the site said something like: California's First work of public planning was this Dam in San Diego river. It allowed Spanish missionaries to farm in the Mission valley etc... Now it says California's First work of public planning was this dam, built by the forced labor of native American slaves of the Cuyapaipe tribe. They changed it only about 10 years ago.

< Message edited by Hierodule -- 11/27/2009 7:41:50 AM >

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 8:01:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why would you assume they are afraid of anything?

I personally see it as they finally have a Pope who believes in accountability and is stepping up to the admit the wrongs of the past, appologize for them officially, in order to move the church into the future. Some could term that as enlightenment.

It was the current pope's predecessor, a man who I thoroughly respect despite the fact that I chose not to be confirmed as a Catholic, who first approved of apologizing for the inquisition and other wrongs of the church. Although it was his successor, a cardianl at the time, who drafted the apologies themselves.

The Church was afraid. But their fear wasn't caused by what would happen if they didn't say sorry. They were afraid that the apologies would undermine them. John Paul overruled the Cardinals who opposed him.

"During 2000-MAR, the Vatican issued an apology for past sins committed by church members. It is titled "Memory and reconciliation: The church and faults of the past." It was approved by Pope John Paul II, and was written by Cardinal Ratzinger, John Paul II's successor as pope. Many leaders of the Vatican Curia opposed his action, being concerned that a confession of past errors might cause many Roman Catholics to wonder whether the church is currently engaged in sinful behavior that will require some future pope to apologize for present-day sins. However, John Paul believed that repentance would transform the church and enable it to lead the world into a "new springtime of Christianity." He was able to overrule the Vatican Curia. "

< Message edited by Hierodule -- 11/27/2009 8:07:40 AM >

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 2:53:29 PM

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Where knowledge ends religion take over. The church has always gone against new knowledge as it treatens their powerbase.

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 2:56:15 PM

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Maybe they're afraid we'll find out there isn't a God?

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 5:56:08 PM

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Sometimes I wonder about that, has the vatican displaced god with the worship of the church.

The vatican holds literature of historic interest in it's vaults, it sought out anything of a relgious text, so maybe they do hold the truth, and it is wrong of them to withold literature from the world.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/27/2009 5:58:01 PM >

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 6:12:59 PM

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quote:

Throughout the German empire the libraries of the states and the universities are well-supplied with books, and in Berlin there are over 70 libraries. Italy, as might be expected, has a number of richly furnished libraries, but all yield in interest to the Vatican library at Rome, which probably is- the oldest in Europe (1447). The Vatican is the private library of the pope; but all scholars gain access by permission.

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/The-New-Student-s-Reference-Work-Vol2/pp0535.html

I dont believe they are withheld from the world... they are just selective as to who has access... and considering how old much of the collection probably is, i can understand why.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 6:26:57 PM

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Fuck it, we are in a digital world, scan the stuffing lot and post it for all to see, not select scholars having limited access, after first stating their case and interest for approval.

As to ancient writings falling apart if exposed to the light of an electronic scanner, so what, as long as the writings are digitally recorded, the packaging can fall to dust, it is that unimportant once it's knowlege is passed on.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 6:35:39 PM

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Destroy the original so you can have access.... interesting notion.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: More catholic apologies, what next ? - 11/27/2009 6:48:22 PM

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A book is a container of knowlege, once the knowlege has been divulged, the container falls from use, look at any book or readable literature you have read on anything. True some keep all their books but many, once read, pass that book on, discard it or otherwise forget it's existence. My belief on the subject of writings, is that if unless specifically stated by the author, what is written is available to all who are interested, it is out there in the public domain. I have an interest in that if all historical writings were made available, it could in fact heal many of the rifts between peoples of this world, there might be greater understanding if all the knowlege was available, as it strikes me that what is allowed to be available is tolerated so because it is not that much of a threat to the status quo.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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