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RE: Are there female Gorean masters


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RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/5/2009 10:10:35 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7232
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I believe you missed some of the posts concerning this. A reread of the subject may be in order.

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


(in reply to Dangruscurvz)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 2:08:54 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Neither gender is “better” than the other. We’re just different. And every free Gorean should be encouraged to live up to the fullest of their potential. They don’t need anyone’s permission.

Permission is for slaves.


  Amen Sistah.

Shout it from the roof tops Dangrus, cuz so many are hard of hearing...lol

Hoping you are enjoying the Holiday Season Dangrus.

Take care,
Maah


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Dangruscurvz)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 2:51:25 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Most the the time women are less likely to be willing to stand up and fight for a right. Really fight for it with something to loose,



That is absolute nonsense.

There have been *many,many,many* women who were willing to give up Everything in their life and did. These women have been documented, admired, loved and respected throughout history.

Just to name a scant few.

Rosa Parks
Joan Of Arc
Amelia Earhart
Florence Nightingale
Catherine of Siena (Saint Catherine)

  Nuff said

I wish you well,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 4:00:23 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

quote:

Neither gender is “better” than the other. We’re just different. And every free Gorean should be encouraged to live up to the fullest of their potential. They don’t need anyone’s permission.

Permission is for slaves.


  Amen Sistah.

Shout it from the roof tops Dangrus, cuz so many are hard of hearing...lol

Hoping you are enjoying the Holiday Season Dangrus.

Take care,
Maah



Hi Maahsatti,

LOL I just sent her the exact same thing (Amen Sistah, spelled just like that) in private CM.

A telltale sign of a strong man is that he's able to be with a strong woman.

I wish you well,
Bella

_____________________________

you're just an empty cage, girl
if you kill the bird

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 44
Getting back to the original question - 12/6/2009 8:05:01 AM   
Dangruscurvz


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		QueenPenelope asked:

"Are there female Gorean masters?"

Well, your highness, here are my thoughts on that one...

There is no such thing as a Gorean master - male or female.

(I can hear you all gasping - but bear with me)

I've been through the books a time or two and I may be wrong, but I do not recall Norman ever once referring to a man as "A Gorean Master." Orion touched on this in his post when he said that "Master/Mistress" is simply a form of address, not a title.

There are free (male and female) Goreans and there are slaves. Addressing a person as "Master/Mistress" is simply an acknowledgement of that person's place above you on the food chain. Free merchants often addressed their (free) customers as "Master/Mistress."

A slave is a slave is a slave. A slave is not a Gorean. They may be owned by a Gorean person, but they themselves are not Gorean. That requires the free will to make choices and that is what a slave surrenders when they claim that status. They may be referred to as "a Gorean slave" but that is only a reflection of their owner. (ie, I am an American. By virtue of ownership, my cat is an American cat. He, himself (the cat) is not an American.)

Some men - well, a lot of men don't accept male slaves in the Gorean lifestyle. Their reason being "Gorean men do not surrender their manhood." Which is true - however, a male slave is *not* a Gorean man (see above paragraph). A slave is just a slave. And owning slaves while not necessary, is a very "Gorean" thing to do.

So, your highness, there are no female Gorean Masters. There are really no male Gorean Masters. There are simply free Gorean men and women.

And some of them own slaves.

Wish you well,

~Dangrus







_____________________________

"The journey is more important than the destination."

http://dangrus.blogspot.com/

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Getting back to the original question - 12/6/2009 8:20:26 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 6362
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		Not that I don't think you've made some good points, but actually Norman uses the expressions "Gorean master" and "Gorean masters" repeatedly.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/6/2009 9:11:50 AM >

(in reply to Dangruscurvz)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Getting back to the original question - 12/6/2009 8:23:02 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I do not recall Norman ever once referring to a man as "A Gorean Master."


Why would he? They are all on Gor. Just as I don't need to clarify that I'm an Earthly man.

It is, however, a useful distinction when interaction with those who don't identify as Gorean, or when drawing distinctions between cultural behavior of men on Earth vs. Gor.

Now, why the topic of discussion here continually comes back to what to label whom--beats the fuck outta me.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/6/2009 8:26:54 AM >

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http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Dangruscurvz)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Getting back to the original question - 12/6/2009 8:39:48 AM   
Dangruscurvz


Posts: 26
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

"Why would he? They are all on Gor. Just as I don't need to clarify that I'm an Earthly man. "


In the books, most everyone was Gorean by virtue of the fact that they were born on that planet. However, perhaps I wasn't clear. Norman referred to several as " a Gorean man or a Gorean woman."

But I don't recall him ever describing someone as *a* Gorean Master/Mistress. They were simply free Goreans.

Yep, it's semantics. But I find a lot of the important parts of the Gorean tenets are in the subtleties.

Wish you well,

~Dangrus

_____________________________

"The journey is more important than the destination."

http://dangrus.blogspot.com/

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 9:27:46 AM   
ZeIda


Posts: 47
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

quote:

Most the the time women are less likely to be willing to stand up and fight for a right. Really fight for it with something to loose,



That is absolute nonsense.

There have been *many,many,many* women who were willing to give up Everything in their life and did. These women have been documented, admired, loved and respected throughout history.

Just to name a scant few.

Rosa Parks
Joan Of Arc
Amelia Earhart
Florence Nightingale
Catherine of Siena (Saint Catherine)

  Nuff said

I wish you well,
Maahsatti



That is absolute nonsense.

A list of a few women through the course of human history does little else but proof what nephandi was saying: "Most women are less likely to stand up for what they believe in."

The extreme shortness of your list, in comparison to the list of men one could come up with, emphasizes this point even more, because it shows that those women who are willing to stand up for what they belief in are the exception, not the rule.

Nuff said

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 10:24:59 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Just to name a scant few.


LEARN to read more specifically female.

I felt NO need to name all the women thru history, as undoubtedly, it would take up quite a few pages of bandwidth.
Such a statement as Nephandi made is nothing short of asinine, period.AS was YOURS.

Maahsatti

< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 12/6/2009 10:27:17 AM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to ZeIda)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 10:58:29 AM   
ZeIda


Posts: 47
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

quote:

Just to name a scant few.


LEARN to read more specifically female.

I felt NO need to name all the women thru history, as undoubtedly, it would take up quite a few pages of bandwidth.
Such a statement as Nephandi made is nothing short of asinine, period.AS was YOURS.

Maahsatti


Am I supposed to feel insulted by you calling me "female?"
It is interesting that you would use your own sex as a means to try to degrade somebody that didn't agree with you.
Yes, I am a female, and proud of it. From the sound of it, the same cannot be said about you yourself.

It is you that needs to learn how to read more specifically.
Nephandi said that most women would not stand up for what they belief in.
I said that, if you would compare the list of men who would stand up for what they believed in, to the list of women who did the same, the men would outnumber the women exponentially.
The actual number of women who have stood up for themselves through the course of history is irrelevant, because there are still many many more men who did the same, which proves the whole point you are foolishly trying to argue: "Most women are not naturally inclined to stand up for what they believe in. Women are much more likely than men to accept their situation and try to make the best of it, instead of trying to change their circumstances. It is the female instinct. RTFB

< Message edited by ZeIda -- 12/6/2009 11:07:49 AM >

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 11:30:57 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		To put it simply for your sake.

  Asinine, Nonsense.
While naturally there are indeed more men then women within history, making the list male dominated, it is NOT true that MOST women would not fight, just fewer, most is highly an overstatement.

While being female has no shame, the reference is a clear indication that the term shows a lack of your being a woman and more specifically an intelligent, wise woman, or is that too complicated a notion for you to understand as well?

No need to answer that, as I will no longer debate or argue with a subbie brat with a large mouth.

FW Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to ZeIda)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 11:44:07 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 6362
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZeIda

A list of a few women through the course of human history does little else but proof what nephandi was saying: "Most women are less likely to stand up for what they believe in."

What nephandi said was, "most [of] the time" women are less likely, not "most women".

quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Most the the time women are less likely to be willing to stand up and fight for a right.

Be done with it.

K.

(in reply to ZeIda)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 11:55:37 AM   
ZeIda


Posts: 47
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

To put it simply for your sake.

  Asinine, Nonsense.
While naturally there are indeed more men then women within history, making the list male dominated, it is NOT true that MOST women would not fight, just fewer, most is highly an overstatement.

While being female has no shame, the reference is a clear indication that the term shows a lack of your being a woman and more specifically an intelligent, wise woman, or is that too complicated a notion for you to understand as well?

No need to answer that, as I will no longer debate or argue with a subbie brat with a large mouth.

FW Maahsatti



Your necessity to fall back on insults every time you do not agree with somebody shows the weakness of your position, and your own lacking ability to argue your point.
I am not, as you would deem to refer to me a "subbie," as I for starters have no connotation with the BDSM community. I owe you nothing, female, not the deference or respect you seem to expect from me, I am not a slave, and I am most certainly not a slave to you.
I have never been bratty or arrogant to you; instead, it has been you who have repeatedly insulted me, without provocation.
You have tried to demean me by calling me a "female," as if you yourself are not that very same thing. I very well understand that you were trying to imply I am not a woman, but it is you who do not understand that you are demeaning yourself by assuming you can throw around the term female as an insult, as a man would, as if you are not insulting yourself in the passage, or trying to pretend you have the same claim to view "female" a derogatory term, as a man would.
I have news for you, female, you are not a man.
What even gives you the idea that you can determine the kind of woman I am based on one post I have made to you? Should I start referring to you as "girl," after checking your profile, because of the age difference?

Instead of rationally, with the self-control and reservation befitting of a Free Woman, arguing a point, you fall back on arguing the poster instead by your haunty and dismissive comments "nonsense," "Nuff said," "female," "asinine," "To put it simply for your sake," "subbie brat with a large mouth." Who are you trying to impress here, or insult? And more pointedly, why are you even falling back on such lowly shots in a debate of logic? Are you not capable of rational debate, arguing the point, instead of attacking the poster?

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 12:08:52 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline 		May I interject with a question? Is is possible that the reason women are less likely to stand up is because they are less likely to win a physical fight esp. if it is against a male? I mean the sexes are different and have different skills. Isn't ignoring that fact pulling the wool over your own eyes? Of course there are exceptions. An angry, well-armed woman will win a fight against an unarmed unmotivated man. But all other things being equal, isn't a woman more likely to acquiesce for the sake of her life or her family's well being? While a man more likely to fight even if it means his own death because that's what was (and still is, in some cases) expected of him by society? I kind of think so. Not that fighting to the death when surrender would be more beneficial is always a good thing. But I do think it is, more often than not, a male thing. And that is just my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with anything Gorean what so ever.

(in reply to ZeIda)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 12:34:04 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Hierodule,

If you do not mind, I will give you my take on it, as that is all I can give, my own personal opinion, that is.

Indeed, men are the more aggresive gender and have been and still are expected to be so.
Men do dominate the list of human beings that fight to defend, support and uphold their beliefs, family and country. I have no argument with that fact.

What I do have an argument with though are statements that claim that in most cases women will not or do not fight for the same. History supports my opinion.

While men are undoubtedly the natural defenders, hunters and fighters, there is nothing more vicious then, lets say..a mother defending her young.and that is just on the more simpler and most basic of instincts and examples.

Even within this forum, the FW will support, debate, argue and defend their views, opinions and positions as strongly and as passionately as most of the men. and why I have done so in this instance. I do not mind listening to other opinions even if I do not agree with them, but when someone I was not speaking to comes along and takes a snide position with me, then I am gonna fight right back in kind.

I am not unique in this behavior either, most GFW I know are the same and some even more intolerant then I, when faced with such...lol...I tend to be the more layed back type in most cases, but admittedly, I do kinda lose it when I read statements that are so blatently ridiculas imo, anyways.

In my own opinion and experience, I feel Gorean Free women are much more aggresive then vanilla women. I feel the reason for that is partly due to the men they associate themselves with.

Anyways, this is just a small expression of my opinion on this matter.

Hoping you are enjoying the Holiday season,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Hierodule)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 12:37:51 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

LOL I just sent her the exact same thing (Amen Sistah, spelled just like that) in private CM.


lol

  Hi Bella,
I guess the saying holds true, that *Great minds think alike* aye?...lmao

well wishes,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 12:40:27 PM   
Hierodule


Posts: 597
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

While men are undoubtedly the natural defenders, hunters and fighters, there is nothing more vicious then, lets say..a mother defending her young.and that is just on the more simpler and most basic of instincts and examples.



Thank you for that simple truth. men don't have a monopoly on defending or aggression. But mayebe that same undeniable urge to protect one's young also forces some women to give in when their family could but put at risk if they stand up for themselves.

I see that many women esp. the Free that follow the Gorean phiosophy feel just as strongly about upholding their beliefs as men do. Thank You again for responding.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 12:45:54 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2104
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Watches the two females standing up and fighting vigorously over whether females stand up and fight.

(where's that damn popcorn smiley thing?)

Seriously, this notion of the dainty femme who would rather swoon than get in a fight is a mythical creation dating to somewhere in the 18th century, starting from the nobility and working its way downward.
If someone wants to make an argument that a slightly higher percentage of men than women would engage in fighting, well, more power to you. I would love to see this somehow documented. It just hasn't been my experience. What women lack in upper body strength, they make up for in guile and ruthlessness.

And if someone wants to turn it into a Gorean philosophy issue- from what I read, the females on Gor were every bit as vicious and cold blooded as the men.

(in reply to Hierodule)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Are there female Gorean masters - 12/6/2009 12:49:14 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline




Sorry i couldn't resist when you asked AnimusRex

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 60
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