OrionTheWolf
Posts: 7226
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Hiya Cheryl,
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana
Her questions are muddled because she wants to be a free woman in a relationship to a man who isn’t Gorean and she is wondering if she is a free woman. I was simply trying to help her see that her past slavery with a non Gorean has no bearing at all on if she is a Gorean free woman or not though it would have a bearing on if she could be his companion or not.
I do not know the man she is involved with, but I do know that Xian has said he does no claim to be Gorean. He may have similar principles to many Goreans, so there may be some relevance there. I agree the questions seem imprecise, but it does seem to me that she is working things out in her head, and using this forum as a sounding board which is can be good. I disagree that her formerly being a slave has no bearing on her being a Gorean Free Woman, as it is part of her life path, and our past growth has a bearing on who we are now, and how we see things.
quote:
There are many released slaves who are now free women or companions, the past slavery is not an issue, though I have to admit I find the “threat” of becoming a slave if you don’t please me to be insulting to consensual slaves who have found their freedom in submitting, and also laughable in our society.
Whether it is insulting is irrelevant in my opinion. It may mean that he wishes to see if she will show self determination in things, and personal growth to define her own morality. We will not know. I do not see anything contradictory to Gorean Morality in this scenario. Either she stands on her own two feet as a non-slave, or she continues to exhibit traits that show her to actually be a slave. I am sure that depending on the results, will determine how the dominant personality in the relationship will react. This seems perfectly in line with Gorean Morality, prove you are Free or allow someone else's will to be imposed upon you, and bring you to your knees.
quote:
Women change when they have children, men often don’t realise exactly what a big change it can sometimes make to certain women (though not all), myself I think she is asking the wrong questions and fixated on Gor when really all she needs to ask is am I really free and happier that way. The rest can come later when she has grown into her freedom a bit.
Cheryl
Men change when children are brought into the picture too. We would not want to mention just one side ;). I understand what you are saying, but not all women change to a degree that they are free in the sense of Gorean Morality. If someone else is determining right and wrong for you, then I do not call that Free. If someone is deferring, without it violating their own ethics and morality, then that is a different situation, and I believe the two are often confused.
I do not believe it is as simple as you say, because we must first realize what free means, before we can determine on whether we are happier with it or not. I know of slaves that have exerted their will, defied their owner, walked out the door and proclaimed themselves to be free, only to lead a miserable life without direction as they have little self determination. I know of at least one that became so emotionally depressed and anxious, that she finally begged a collar again, becoming happy and in a lot less emotional turmoil.
There are women that were previously a slave, that have grown into what appears to be happy and fulfilled Free Women too, but I am also sure some of the life lessons they learned as slaves has helped develop who they are, so it has relevance.
I am sure these are things that time will tell, and that time also encompasses her past, which her slavery is a part of.
Live well,
Orion
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Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.
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RE: Enslaved Free Women - 
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