Should Bankers get their bonuses ?

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Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 1:47:39 AM

Aneirin

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With reference to the recent problem in the UK where the Lloyds TSB bank , which is now largely owned by the British taxpayer due to a £5.5 BILLION pay out, when the bank fucked up, should the bank's elite get their reported bonuses ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1079277/Lloyds-TSB-staff-WILL-bonuses--bank-5-5bn-Government-bail-out.html

To do so, will anger the British tax payer, bearing in mind the bank bonus fiasco was a cause for concern when the banks did fail, they got their bonuses, even though others lost their jobs and investments, they were in effect rewarded for shoddy work. But the banking industry is saying, if the elite don't get their bonuses, they will walk, and if they walk, the bank will not perform, because the best brains have gone.

To my understanding, and experience, bonuses were awarded for working beyond targets, if a target was set and more work was done beyond that target, I got a nice lump sum. The only problem with the seeking of bonuses, is employers become aware an employee can work beyond their contracted ability, and so raise targets, the employee ends up in effect, working more for less, if they stay on their present contract. Bonuses, in my experience, were never a right of employment, that is why I am asking this question, as it seems the bankers believe it is a right of their employment.

In your oppinion, who is going to win this argument, and what is the likely outcome financially and politically ?

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 1:59:24 AM

NorthernGent

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A bonus isn't bad per se.....it all depends upon on what exactly are you're paying the bonus.

So what is the problem in our economy at the moment.....well a big part of it is that the banks have gone from lending anybody anything to lending pretty much nobody nothing which is a real problem for investment. So somehow the banks have got to start lending particularly to small businesses - I mean after all in the words of Napoleon and Kaiser Wilhelm we're a 'nation of shopkeepers'.

So why not pay a bonus on the number of loans to small businesses while the economy is in its current state to stimulate the end of the market that is struggling? A reasonable bonus mind you.

There's no use in paying bonuses on profits when the figures have been manipulated and don't mean anything......and bonuses on profits is a big part of the problem as it encourages the short term thinking that has led to the financial crisis.

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 7:46:20 AM

LadyEllen

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The Lloyds directors and their traders certainly should get their bonus payments - if nothing else in compensation for being obliged/ talked into (whatever one sees it as) taking on the HBOS turkey. The shareholders in Lloyds ought also to be similarly compensated for the same reason. Lloyds behaved responsibly throughout the recent madness and were in, (and would still be in), a good position without the government, by various ways and means inducing them by way of what seems more and more to be fraudulent misrepresentation, into the merger.

Rather than talking about bonus payments, we ought to be talking about who is going to gaol.

E

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 12:00:24 PM

Fellow

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As I see it, the huge bonuses are simply fraud, grand theft. It is well known the bonus system was a contributing factor to the financial collapse: everybody was chasing short-term profits (the bonuses are based on short term performance).
I do not see though how the system can be fixed as the US government and the financial oligarchy are the same unit. There is no separation of power in practice. The only way for change would be through the collapse of the financial system and the government at the same time following hyperinflation. I do not buy the argument that the financial companies should be treated like others and be allowed to operate as they wish. The US government gives banks virtual money with 0% interest created from thin air, the banks lend it out (with high interest) and speculate with it making profits (it does not take a genius to do so). Big chunk of the profit goes to the bonus fund and then it is converted to personal properties (real wealth). In essence, the wealth for selected few is created starting with money that has no economy backing. People are fed misinformation and lies like the banking practices (filled with all kind of fraud and excessive speculations) and bailouts are necessary for economic stability.

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 12:06:21 PM

Brain

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I would not pay anyone a bonus until these companies or banks were at the very least audited, and preferably a forensic audit. Only then and only if the bonus is earned through appropriate business practices would I pay anyone a bonus. I don't know about British banks but I don't see with the money they lost recently how people getting bonuses is justified.

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 12:13:51 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I do not see though how the system can be fixed as the US government and the financial oligarchy are the same unit.

Over here we have Corporate Governance. It's guidance rather than law and the aim is to encourage self-regulation/responsibility. Where an organisation is not compliant with Corporate Governance then they should disclose this in the financial statements for investors to analyse. In terms of disclosure it's a long story but it includes the roles and repsponsibility of the Audit Committee/the quality and independence of non execs/remuneration and performance measures/risk management - the idea is to control exec behaviour through ensuring they're accountable to shareholders.

Of course all of this assumes shareholders know what they're doing.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 12/5/2009 12:15:00 PM >

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 1:15:51 PM

popeye1250

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I have a question, how much are they making in salarey?

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 1:28:17 PM

Phoenixpower

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no, they should not! When they don't like it, then well, they can happily leave and try to find work somewhere else, it is not as if we would be short of bankers...in many jobs people don't get bonuses, time for them to get realistic!

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/5/2009 1:41:52 PM

pahunkboy

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Yes! By all means. Have them drop in. I "have something for them!"

If they make it past my place- others on the block also have "something for them". and if they make it out of town- I am sure the adjacent town has "something for them!"

By all means! Let them have it!!!

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/6/2009 1:01:03 PM

Moonhead

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Lloyds seems fair enough. It isn't like they're the RBS, is it?

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/6/2009 8:33:31 PM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I have a question, how much are they making in salarey?

http://www.glassdoor.com/Bonuses/Lloyds-TSB-Bonuses-E10192.htm

In fact, a very useful website, have fun.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 12/6/2009 8:34:30 PM >

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/7/2009 1:24:41 AM

Fellow

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I have a question, how much are they making in salarey?

In US 2008 data:
.....the median salary for CEOs of 200 large companies increased 4.5 percent to $1.08 million, according to an April (2009) survey by The Wall Street Journal.
....the median total compensation for CEOs at 200 large companies declined 3.4 percent to $7.56 million[link=http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/pay/index.cfm#_ftn2][/link]

Bank top management base salaries are actually smaller; somewhere in the half million region, equal to what US president makes.

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/7/2009 6:40:50 AM

StrangerThan

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Hell yes they should.

Why?

They convinced politicians and folks in general that the sky would fall without them and gobbled up billions in tax payer dollars for schemes they knew wouldn't work or last when they composed them. This is after severly inflating the housing market and reaping additional billions in the process.

They hired men to park oil tankers off the coast when gas prioes were high to help them rise higher.

They convinced political folk to let them help write credit card reform legislation that essentially gave them almost a year to raise rates any way they chose to. As a result, I got one of those "because of the varying economic climate" letters from a credit card I've never been late on, adjusting my interest rate to 22 percent. Needless to say, I will be opting out and paying the thing off. Makes me wonder about all those folks who don't have that option though.

And yeah, opting out hurts your credit rating. Closing an account hurts your credit rating. Honestly, doing anything but charging and paying hurts your credit rating.

And we let them get away with all the above. Damn right the execs should get their bonuses.

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RE: Should Bankers get their bonuses ? - 12/7/2009 11:55:29 AM

rockspider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I have a question, how much are they making in salarey?

An awful lot more than your average minister of finance. If you are realy clever you go in to commerce. If you just want to bask in the limelight, go in to politic. Sort of explains why the bankers normally screews the politicians.

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