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RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 6:50:48 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MAWarGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

MAWarGOD, "BDSM" M/s dynamic is not much different from what i have heard on this Gor forum as far as basic structure. (just my opinion) Master and i feel We closely follow the natural order of how it should be between a Man and a woman. We also have a "No mistake about who is Master" way about Us. Our sex life is an area We also enjoy, and the M/s dynamic is alive and well there too. However Our sex life does not in ANY way define Our "Whole" life as Master and slave. Hope your week is going well Sir.
*Edited typo



I will not debate and I totally respect that of what you have said of the M/s of BDSM as in also what I would call “Old Guard”… But there are the D/s and other factions of bdsm that are no where near the Gorean mindset..


Yes Sir, i have no doubt that is true. To be honest, i didn't say otherwise. "Old Guard" though, is definately NOT the only M/s lifestyle, that resembles a gor lifestyle, as far as structure and basic Man/woman relationship ideals. i hope your week has gone well Sir, thank you for taking the time to comment on what i had posted.


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to MAWarGod)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 12:32:57 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

MAWarGOD, "BDSM" M/s dynamic is not much different from what i have heard on this Gor forum as far as basic structure. (just my opinion) Master and i feel We closely follow the natural order of how it should be between a Man and a woman. We also have a "No mistake about who is Master" way about Us. Our sex life is an area We also enjoy, and the M/s dynamic is alive and well there too. However Our sex life does not in ANY way define Our "Whole" life as Master and slave. Hope your week is going well Sir.
*Edited typo



I think you are right if I understand your statement, the "BDSM" M/S vs Gor Master/slave dynamic overlap a great deal in subtle and not so subtle ways. I can see examples where Tarl quickly takes a girl and binds her in chains for a quick "cutaway" from whatever he does to her for his pleasure (and hers) most of the evening. I believe the  "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic" that non-gorean and gorean couples use to enhance their interaction without it dominating their lives, as you say.

I see some skillset overlap in ways the Gorean men skillfully, safely and sanely bind the girls for any given purpose, skillsets one might learn in the Sagas but perhaps are best learned in a real time local group or good books on such subjects, I believe.

On the other hand, the BDSM practices of role playing, scene compilation, pain infliction using various techniques for the sake of pleasure, sending a submissive "flying" are not ever deplicted as part of Gorean life or practices and I do not presume you include these in your statement. Not to say these non-gorean practices cannot be part of a specific Gorean couples sex life. 

< Message edited by Arturas -- 12/10/2009 12:53:19 PM >

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 12:49:10 PM   
Camerius


Posts: 742
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I believe the "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic" that non-gorean and gorean couples use to enhance their interaction without it dominating their lives, as you say.


Then you believe wrong. SM stands for Sadism and Masochism and NOT as you think Sexual Magic.


I wish you well,

  Camerius


_____________________________

"To Gorean morality many Earth moralities might ask, "Why so hard?" To these Earth moralities, the Gorean ethos might ask, "Why so soft?" Marauders of Gor, pg.8

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 12:50:46 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I believe the "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic"


*shakes my head*
Sado Masochism, actually.

I swear, if you were not as daft as you have proven yourself to be, I would think you say these foolish things *JUST* to get a rise out of us.

Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 12:50:54 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		BDSM is not an acronym for just kinky sex, it encompasses....

Bondage & Discipline
Dominance & submission
Sadism & masochism
Master & slave

It is a pretty big umbrella. But i hope this helps shed some light on the fact that sex, is a SMALL(albeit important!) part of what BDSM is

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/10/2009 12:51:10 PM >

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:00:57 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Camerius

quote:

I believe the "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic" that non-gorean and gorean couples use to enhance their interaction without it dominating their lives, as you say.


Then you believe wrong. SM stands for Sadism and Masochism and NOT as you think Sexual Magic.


I wish you well,

Camerius



I understand your point. That is the formal definition given in the encyclopedia. We who are closer to it know it alternatively as "Sexual Magic."  It is a good description in my experience. You can find these references though out great BDSM books. 



< Message edited by Arturas -- 12/10/2009 1:02:01 PM >

(in reply to Camerius)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:03:48 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

BDSM is not an acronym for just kinky sex, it encompasses....

Bondage & Discipline
Dominance & submission
Sadism & masochism
Master & slave

It is a pretty big umbrella. But i hope this helps shed some light on the fact that sex, is a SMALL(albeit important!) part of what BDSM is


As you say.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:06:32 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

quote:

I believe the "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic"


*shakes my head*
Sado Masochism, actually.

I swear, if you were not as daft as you have proven yourself to be, I would think you say these foolish things *JUST* to get a rise out of us.

Maahsatti



I understand your point. That is the formal definition given in the encyclopedia. We who are closer to it know it alternatively as "Sexual Magic."  It is a good description in my experience. You can find these references though out great BDSM books. 

I think you should calm yourself and keep a more open mind and focus on the thread topic.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 12/10/2009 1:13:29 PM >

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:09:00 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		I am quite calm

Admittedly, people like you, I would have by now, just placed on ignore, but you are like a car crash and I read on in morbid curiosity.

Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:13:31 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

I am quite calm

Admittedly, people like you, I would have by now, just placed on ignore, but you are like a car crash and I read on in morbid curiosity.

Maahsatti


Oh Ma'am....i'm glad somebody said this, i was starting to feel like it was just me


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:19:59 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

i was starting to feel like it was just me


LOL...nope, you are not the only one, breatheasone.

FW Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:20:11 PM   
Camerius


Posts: 742
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I understand your point. That is the formal definition given in the encyclopedia. We who are closer to it know it alternatively as "Sexual Magic." It is a good description in my experience. You can find these references though out great BDSM books.



/shakes the head

There are just some types of conversation that is a waste of time, effort and energy to continue. This is being one of them.

I wish you well,

  Camerius




_____________________________

"To Gorean morality many Earth moralities might ask, "Why so hard?" To these Earth moralities, the Gorean ethos might ask, "Why so soft?" Marauders of Gor, pg.8

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:31:45 PM   
Hiskajirah


Posts: 929
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Sometimes am embarrassed to read what's coming next...


Please be as well as you can be,
~twinkle

edited to add- RE: sadism & masochism equaling sexual magic. (giggle) To begin a sentence with "I believe" and then when called on it go on to say "We who are closer to it know it alternatively as "Sexual Magic." is um.. 

embarrassing.

Really made this one blush.


< Message edited by Hiskajirah -- 12/10/2009 1:51:59 PM >

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
www.CRPSAdvisory.com

(in reply to Camerius)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 1:57:35 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Camerius

quote:

I believe the "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic" that non-gorean and gorean couples use to enhance their interaction without it dominating their lives, as you say.


Then you believe wrong. SM stands for Sadism and Masochism and NOT as you think Sexual Magic.


I wish you well,

Camerius



I understand your point. That is the formal definition given in the encyclopedia. We who are closer to it know it alternatively as "Sexual Magic."  It is a good description in my experience. You can find these references though out great BDSM books. 




Greetings Artie

*blinks* Wow, very impressive, not only have you shown yourself to be completely lacking knowledge of Gor aside from an ability to quote the books, you don't even know what BDSM stands for.  Please enlighen me and show one place....online sites don't count....where SM is defined as Sexual Magic. It can be anywhere as long as it's a reputable source.

Zeph


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 2:18:05 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Camerius

quote:

I believe the "SM" actually stands for "Sexual Magic" that non-gorean and gorean couples use to enhance their interaction without it dominating their lives, as you say.


Then you believe wrong. SM stands for Sadism and Masochism and NOT as you think Sexual Magic.


I wish you well,

Camerius



I understand your point. That is the formal definition given in the encyclopedia. We who are closer to it know it alternatively as "Sexual Magic."  It is a good description in my experience. You can find these references though out great BDSM books. 




Greetings Artie

*blinks* Wow, very impressive, not only have you shown yourself to be completely lacking knowledge of Gor aside from an ability to quote the books, you don't even know what BDSM stands for.  Please enlighen me and show one place....online sites don't count....where SM is defined as Sexual Magic. It can be anywhere as long as it's a reputable source.

Zeph



Greetings,

Yes, my libary includes the prized book, "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns", Philip Miller and Molley Devon. It is the most highly rated BDSM book on the scene.

The book has seven references to the term

The first of seven references made to the use of the term Sexual Magic for "SM", sadomasochism, page 6.  I paraphrase...

"Euphemisms for SM abound in sexual circles. Actually, we would rather call it Sexual Magic, because that's what it feels to us (this is not our term, by the way; it was the title of a wonderful photo journal by Michael Rosen, written in 1986, and has been kicking around the SM community for quite a while. See our bibliography.)"
 
I am astounded by the reluctance of the regulars here to avoid any opportunity to learn from those who actually practice the lifestyle and can speak to the subject matter with confidence and prior experience rather than sit and pretend they are here only to scold, lecture and if all else fails, insult.

Perhaps I missed that book in the Sagas. 


Arturas

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 2:19:28 PM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline 		~FR~

Greetings everybody,

for those who are interested:

Sexual magic, or to use the more commonly used term, sex magic, is actually a concept Master Arturas didn't make up.
It is a concept sometimes used in Wicca culture and in certain other occultism movements and is sometimes even linked to Buddhist or Tantric movements.

In this context, sexual magic is defined as: "Sex magic or Sex magick is a term for various types of sexual activity used in magical, ritualistic, or otherwise religious and spiritual pursuits. One application of sex magic is using the energy of sexual arousal and/or orgasm to visualize an image of a desired result.

A premise of sex magic is the concept that the sexual energy is the most potent force the body contains, and harnessing the unique states that arise through sexual activity may provide an experiential conduit for the transcendence of an individual's normally perceived reality."

So the many books and articles that were written explicitly about sex magic do not have any relationship whatsoever to this particular topic on the Gorean board or to the context in which Master Arturas is using it.
In all that I've read about sexual magic over the years, I have never seen the concept abbreviated to "SM".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic

ishy


< Message edited by ishyB -- 12/10/2009 2:23:50 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 2:27:50 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Greetings ishy,

Oh no question of that, but Artie says that is what the SM in BDSM stands for, which is wrong.

I wish you well,

Zeph


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to ishyB)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 2:29:00 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

~FR~

Greetings everybody,

for those who are interested:

Sexual magic, or to use the more commonly used term, sex magic, is actually a concept Master Arturas didn't make up.
It is a concept sometimes used in Wicca culture and in certain other occultism movements and is sometimes even linked to Buddhist or Tantric movements.

In this context, sexual magic is defined as: "Sex magic or Sex magick is a term for various types of sexual activity used in magical, ritualistic, or otherwise religious and spiritual pursuits. One application of sex magic is using the energy of sexual arousal and/or orgasm to visualize an image of a desired result.

A premise of sex magic is the concept that the sexual energy is the most potent force the body contains, and harnessing the unique states that arise through sexual activity may provide an experiential conduit for the transcendence of an individual's normally perceived reality."

So the many books and articles that were written explicitly about sex magic do not have any relationship whatsoever to this particular topic on the Gorean board or to the context in which Master Arturas is using it.
In all that I've read about sexual magic over the years, I have never seen the concept abbreviated to "SM".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic

ishy




Greetings,

Perhaps you will find my reference above more appropriate to the subject in this thread.

Be well,
Arturas

(in reply to ishyB)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 2:36:20 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 945
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Greetings ishy,

Oh no question of that, but Artie says that is what the SM in BDSM stands for, which is wrong.

I wish you well,

Zeph




Greetings,

Yes, my libary includes the prized book, "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns", Philip Miller and Molley Devon. It is the most highly rated BDSM book on the scene.

The book has seven references to the term

The first of seven references made to the use of the term Sexual Magic for "SM", sadomasochism, page 6.  I paraphrase...

"Euphemisms for SM abound in sexual circles. Actually, we would rather call it Sexual Magic, because that's what it feels to us (this is not our term, by the way; it was the title of a wonderful photo journal by Michael Rosen, written in 1986, and has been kicking around the SM community for quite a while. See our bibliography.)"
 
I am astounded by the reluctance of the regulars here to avoid any opportunity to learn from those who actually practice the lifestyle and can speak to the subject matter with confidence and prior experience rather than sit and pretend they are here only to scold, lecture and if all else fails, insult.

Perhaps I missed that book in the Sagas. 


Arturas

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Gor vs Traditional BDSM - 12/10/2009 2:42:48 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 6362
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		~ blink ~

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 40
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