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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/15/2009 7:54:25 AM

Mastermunch

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This is an excerpt from Wikipedia. I do believe that a kajira without a Master is not a kajira until procured by another Master. Which conjures up the term LIMBO.
" There exist various techniques in Gorean culture to teach Gorean slaves corresponding conduct. Slave tasks may include not only sexual slavery, but also the ability to maintain a household, possess artistic skills, wear an appealing outfit and address the master in certain manner. Gorean slave women are branded, which means they are marked with certain signs burned into the flesh on being enslaved. To mark a slave as a particular owner's property, a collar with the Owner's name is placed upon the slave (male and female slaves are collared.)"[link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajira#cite_note-0][/link]

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/16/2009 8:44:28 AM

Mastermunch

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I do enjoy a good debate. A Masterless Kajira is a little one who is hunted. Usually, a Master would have passed on and left his Kajira free. But most Free women are still living with open season by the Slave Hunters. One main point of the branding is to show a slave is owned. The ownership does mean that the slave is owned and it also means that her Master is totally responsible for her well being and safe keeping. The brand can not be removed so this slave is living in fear of Hunters at her door. I have heard of Kajirae being tossed out of the lair for too many indiscretions. There is a point to coming home from a hard day and NOT having to punish a transgression.

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/16/2009 9:11:21 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mastermunch

I do enjoy a good debate. A Masterless Kajira is a little one who is hunted. Usually, a Master would have passed on and left his Kajira free. But most Free women are still living with open season by the Slave Hunters. One main point of the branding is to show a slave is owned. The ownership does mean that the slave is owned and it also means that her Master is totally responsible for her well being and safe keeping. The brand can not be removed so this slave is living in fear of Hunters at her door. I have heard of Kajirae being tossed out of the lair for too many indiscretions. There is a point to coming home from a hard day and NOT having to punish a transgression.

Hi Munch,

Would you clarify please, are you talking about the series or about real life when you mention these slave hunters?

Take care,
Bella

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/16/2009 2:20:14 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Now apply any of this to offline living, an what is the answer?

Also, that excerpt from wikipedia is explaining what a kajira is in the fictional series. It does not answer the OP.

To the OP: There are emales that are seeking to be owned and mastered. The term you asked about can only be directed at those females, though it is an oxymoron. By tht I mean to say unowned slave, and then lok at the definition of a slave, may show that one mus be owned to be a slave. There are many different meanings to slave though, so it may mean someone that is directed by external influences, but not owned by a single one.

Live well,
Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mastermunch

I do enjoy a good debate. A Masterless Kajira is a little one who is hunted. Usually, a Master would have passed on and left his Kajira free. But most Free women are still living with open season by the Slave Hunters. One main point of the branding is to show a slave is owned. The ownership does mean that the slave is owned and it also means that her Master is totally responsible for her well being and safe keeping. The brand can not be removed so this slave is living in fear of Hunters at her door. I have heard of Kajirae being tossed out of the lair for too many indiscretions. There is a point to coming home from a hard day and NOT having to punish a transgression.

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/16/2009 2:30:14 PM

mnottertail

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Slave! Slave!” screamed the leader of the she-urts to the bound girl. “Slave! Slave!” they cried.
“To think we let you fish garbage with us, when you were only a slave!” cried the leader.
Then the she-urts who had accompanied me to the station of the praetor, kicking and striking with their ropes, fell upon the bound slave.
She wept, kicked and struck. “Slave! Slave!” they cried.
“Get back!” called the praetor, angrily, to them. “Get back, or we will collar you all!”
The girls, swiftly, shrank back, fearfully. But they continued to look with hatred on the slave.
The blond girl tried to make herself even smaller and more submissive, that she be not more abused. She sobbed. She had had a taste of the feelings of free women towards a slave, which she was. Explorers of Gor, page 68

and so on.

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/21/2009 7:50:02 AM

Mastermunch

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Hello Bella. I did refer from "Slave Girl Of Gor." But it also brought me back to history, the Global slave markets, texts of the abuse that was showed towards any person of a different skin colour than white. There were Slave Hunters then. They didn't seem to care if the person was slave of free. If the person was of a different colour then they were fair game. Go figure.

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/21/2009 1:30:29 PM

ElizabethAnne

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Hello Munch,

You do realize this is 2009? And yes I am very much aware human slave trafficking does happens in the world, but I do KNOW in the United States in this, the 21st Century it is illegal.

Be well,

Elizabeth

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/25/2009 2:40:35 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAWarGod

So this thread goes back to is a slave truly a slave without a Master??

A slave is a human being that is owned by another human being. And in the Gorean sense, something that is owned is something that someone has laid a claim to, a claim they are ready and willing to back with force if necessary. That is pretty simple and clear-cut. A master has no particular place in that equation. We can extend it to include what a law states to be owned, of course, but that still doesn't bring any master into the equation.

A so-called masterless kajira is, by definition, not claimed by anyone. Scratch the primary sense of ownership. Also, modern nations in the West do not acknowledge legal ownership of non-incarcerated citizens. Scratch the secondary sense of ownership. A slave being a human that is owned by another, the absence of ownership, whether as a legality or a de facto reality, denies the possibility of being a slave, and thus invalidates the term entirely.

There is no such thing as a masterless kajira. QED.

The thread goes back to "we'd really like to talk about something that doesn't exist, in order to define what it would be, if it did exist, disregarding that its nonexistence is part of its very definition." Or, from a less cynical point of view, it goes back to answering the OP, as I and others have, that the term she is referencing is a misunderstanding and doesn't have anything to do with what the person whose use of the term she was curious about thought it did. Any other questions?

Health,
al-Aswad.

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/25/2009 3:30:33 PM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I don't like to get into these silly definition threads.

Ditto.

And here is why:
I live next door to a traditional Afghan family. the women wear veils, they never look directly at or speak to a non-relative male, etc.
In their culture, women are quite literally the property of their husbands. They can be beaten, killed even, for any reason. Although they live in America, I doubt this matters much, since in their mindset, divorce and feminst freedom pretty much doesn't exist.

So I would say these women are as close to Gorean slaves as exist. Some appear to be unmarried.
So maybe I should ask them this question- are you slaves? Or Free Women who are submissive? Or merely submissive vanilla women? Or un-Mastered kajirae?
Are you serving out of love, or are you truly mastered, and incapable of independent thought?
Are Internally Enslaved, or did you choose slavery out of free will?
Are you simply in love with your husband, and not really a slave at all?

I suspect the answer would be something along the lines of "Husband, please come and rescue me from this crazed lunatic American!"

The real answer would probably be, "I am a wife." or "I am my father's unmarried daughter."
They behave the way they do because this is how they believe men and women should act. They didn't read this in a book somewhere, they don't have endless navel gazing sessions trying to define exactly why she fetches his slippers, whether she did it out of free will or was forced, and if he is less of a man because she loves him or not.

I don't intend for this to sound snarky. I just think these sorts of discussion tend to overcomplicate things that should be simple and clear.
I think the fixation on titles and categories becomes a breeding ground for One Twue Wayism, of ranking and status and elevating certain classes above others (she is not a REAL slave, but merely a submissive!)

In answer to the OP's question- you are a single woman, who longs to serve a man.

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