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Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 4:23:56 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 1680
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		A moderator found it necessarry to lock the thread I origanally posted this in, but that's okay, it was not really ontopic in that thread.
so i thought i would repost it here.
On that prevoius locked thread, a poster used the phrase 'Masterless kajira'.
It made me pause and wonder.
As a non-Gorean visitor to this board,
what is a masterless kajira?
I have always said I was not kajira because it so happens i have never been owned by a Gorean Man.
Is one a masterless kajira if one has a slave's heart and seeks only a Gorean Master - which I admit is not the case with me?
Is a masterless kajira one who has been owned by a Gorean Man, and trained to be a kajira, and through release or other twists or tragidies of life finds herself without or between Masters?

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 4:51:24 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Greetings tsatske,

As far as I'm aware, Artie made up that term, or at least I've never seen anyone else use it. And we all know how reliable a source of information on Gor he is...in other words he isn't, he just makes it up as he goes along,

I wish you well,

Zeph


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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(in reply to tsatske)
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 5:22:42 PM   
Dinnardin


Posts: 368
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

A moderator found it necessarry to lock the thread I origanally posted this in, but that's okay, it was not really ontopic in that thread.
so i thought i would repost it here.
On that prevoius locked thread, a poster used the phrase 'Masterless kajira'.
It made me pause and wonder.
As a non-Gorean visitor to this board,
what is a masterless kajira?
I have always said I was not kajira because it so happens i have never been owned by a Gorean Man.
Is one a masterless kajira if one has a slave's heart and seeks only a Gorean Master - which I admit is not the case with me?
Is a masterless kajira one who has been owned by a Gorean Man, and trained to be a kajira, and through release or other twists or tragidies of life finds herself without or between Masters?


Yes, Masterless kajira is in fact an oxymoron, HOWEVER....a girl can be fully trained as a kajira, have the heart to be a kajira, have the desire to serve a Gorean Man, and be ready in every way that she can be (not to say there won't be surprises), so that, if a Gorean Man happens to take a fancy to her, she will give him a slave who hopefully is worthy of ownership by a Gorean.  Part of that would be, of course, reading the books....as painful as that might be. 
The boy scouts have it right, girl....be prepared.

John, AKA Dinnardin

< Message edited by Dinnardin -- 12/13/2009 5:23:56 PM >

(in reply to tsatske)
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 5:35:08 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

A moderator found it necessarry to lock the thread I origanally posted this in, but that's okay, it was not really ontopic in that thread.
so i thought i would repost it here.
On that prevoius locked thread, a poster used the phrase 'Masterless kajira'.
It made me pause and wonder.
As a non-Gorean visitor to this board,
what is a masterless kajira?
I have always said I was not kajira because it so happens i have never been owned by a Gorean Man.
Is one a masterless kajira if one has a slave's heart and seeks only a Gorean Master - which I admit is not the case with me?
Is a masterless kajira one who has been owned by a Gorean Man, and trained to be a kajira, and through release or other twists or tragidies of life finds herself without or between Masters?


Hi tsatske,

I would assume the term would be used best for the second definition - a woman who was previously owned as a kajira and trained as one, who would be better described as "in limbo" waiting for her next master rather than described as a FW despite her 'free' status. But I think it would work for anyone who wishes to be owned by a Gorean man who knows how to act in line with Gorean slave protocols.

While I generally believe that a slave isn't a slave without a master, I think this description (using 'kajira' instead of slave because while it is simply the foreign equivalent, 'kajira' also functions as a foreign loanword to describe a certain type of slave) is a fairly apt one, and I think it would be a fair term to describe a lot of the women on this board who self-identify as natural slaves or having a slave heart, who attempt to follow the kajira protocols on this board.

Also if you don't mind me taking this thread into another (but similar) direction, I remember a post of Maahsatti's from awhile ago in which she said something along the lines of "if a slave is released, but not released as a FW, she is simply an unowned slave" - Maahsatti if you're reading this I'd love it if you could expound on that, and I'm interested in anyone else's thoughts about this, because it does seem like another description of the so-called "masterless kajira."

I wish all well,
Bella

_____________________________

you're just an empty cage, girl
if you kill the bird

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 7:06:39 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hello Bella,

  For me, the term (Unowned slave) pretty much is self explanitory, but I will try to clarify my thoughts and feelings a bit more specifically.

First, it is pretty simple , the fact being that a woman living by Gorean philos, standards, ethos and moralities knows that in order to be a FW she is either born as one or is made such by the will and act of a FM.

There is a difference in a man removing his collar from his slave and releasing her from his service and from releasing his slave   actively and consciously making her a FW,with all the rights and privelages and responsabilities that go along with being such a woman.

A FW has the capabilities and desires to live a life knowing how to care for herself and how to survive and make everyday as well as important descisions for her well being as well, able to care for others around her and all without the *need* for a man to do it for her, while a FW indeed may and often does enjoy the input and advice of respected men around her, she unlike a slave does not feel she needs this in order to function at her best.
A slave in most cases, feel they are unable to function very well without the guidance of her Master to show her how it should be done and feel a sense of loss and disorder.

Also a girl who defers to all Free in proper Gorean standard is another indicator she wishes to be owned but more so her bahaviors around men. A girl who knows she is a slave will always submit to any and all matters when a man is involved.

Now I am not saying in any way shape or form that a slave has no intelligence or knowledge on how to live her life, I am saying they just feel they do so much better and with more confidence and efficiancy when owned and her Master instructs and guides her.

I hope this helps clarify my feelings and belief better and I want to make clear that these are just my opinions and beliefs as I can not speak for others and their beliefs.

well wishes,
Maahsatti
P.S. I am not the greatest at verbalizing my thoughts in a very elequent manner...lol


< Message edited by Maahsatti -- 12/13/2009 7:10:25 PM >

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 9:03:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:


A slave in most cases, feel they are unable to function very well without the guidance of her Master to show her how it should be done and feel a sense of loss and disorder.


I don't like to get into these silly definition threads.

But this is a load of crap. If that's what you think, you haven't met many slaves.

Owning girls is not running an institution for the socially disabled. Nor do I know any men interested in owning such girls.

_____________________________

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http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/13/2009 9:09:52 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:


A slave in most cases, feel they are unable to function very well without the guidance of her Master to show her how it should be done and feel a sense of loss and disorder.


I don't like to get into these silly definition threads.

But this is a load of crap. If that's what you think, you haven't met many slaves.

Owning girls is not running an institution for the socially disabled. Nor do I know any men interested in owning such girls.


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 8:09:59 AM   
Kimveri


Posts: 781
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		~FR~

Anyone "born" Gorean is a fictional character in a book. There's NO other way to be "born" Gorean.

NO one can be "made" a Free Gorean by the will of another person. It either comes from one's own efforts & strength of will, or one does not merit the freedom one claims.

A woman actively seeking enslavement could easily be referred to as a "masterless" or "unclaimed" slavegirl. A woman no longer claimed by any single, specific man may continue to be mastered by one (or more) men & thus remain a "masterless" or unclaimed slave, albeit a mastered woman.

A woman can wear a collar, a brand, a tattoo, cuffs, chains, knots of bondage, symbols of 'ownership', claimancy, et.al. ....& NEVER be mastered....& thus NEVER be a slave. We cannot get there without the mastery. Period. All the other stuff is hot air, the supposition of fools & the wishes of the hopeful.

The best way to resolve this much-plumbed question is to wait til you find a man whose presence is vital to your life's fulfillment &.....ask HIM. Abide by that & fuck everyone else.

Of course, YMMV.

~Kimveri

_____________________________

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"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 8:21:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Masterless kajira


Every time I see this thread title, this song keeps running through my head...

*sometimes....I feel....like a masterless kajira...
sometimes...I feel...like a masterless girl...
...a long, long way from my home....

sometimes....I feel....like I'm almost gone....
....a long way from my home.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-d5x-CiTUs

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 8:32:45 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Great video! Thanks for posting the link.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 9:05:57 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		As I said, I do not do a very good job at expressing my beliefs and as I tried to say as well, I did not mean to say a slave is not capable of living life etc, but that she prefers, in order to feel whole and have order, etc that she needs the Mastery of a man who knows what a good Mastery entails and is able to give such.

As far as you feeling it is crap, well thats your entitled opinion as well.

And no duh, that this is not Gor and that no one is born on Gor but those who apply Gorean standards,protocols and morals, etc etc, DO accept that there is an order of certain situations that are followed and as I said, these are *My opinions* and I speak for no one else, however I am not the only person who feels this way and I do infact know quite a few slaves and have been around a number of various girls living as such.

So, crap or not, I was asked to expound on my previous post so I did as best I could, knowing of course that I seriously lack in that department...explaining , that is.

I wish all well,
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 6:21:35 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 1680
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Apparently this is a much plumbed thread and I should have done a search. Obviously, this is like being on the BDSM side and asking the difference between a slave and a sub. I am sorry if i have asked such an unanswerable and debated question, my appologies.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to Maahsatti)
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 6:35:06 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Apparently this is a much plumbed thread and I should have done a search. Obviously, this is like being on the BDSM side and asking the difference between a slave and a sub. I am sorry if i have asked such an unanswerable and debated question, my appologies.


I would believe that an honest question deserves a straight answer, no matter how many times it has been asked, or how complex the answer may be. So here is what I would say on the subject:

In the made up language of Gor, "kajira" is said to mean "female slave". As such, I believe "Masterless kajira" would translate to "a female slave without a Master." If I am to reason according to that definition, I would include in that category slaves that are enslaved but not yet given to an owner, slaves that have been abandoned, slaves who lost their Master, or slaves owned by the state or an organisation, thus do not have a single individual "Master".

On the other hand, in choosing to use the term "kajira" as opposed to simply "slave", I would imagine the term carries connotations which are significant to individual who uses it. In that case, I am not able to speculate accurately what they might mean.

Perhaps it would be most useful to ask the person who first used the phrase to elaborate on the intended meaning.

(in reply to tsatske)
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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 7:12:21 PM   
Dinnardin


Posts: 368
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: S2



Perhaps it would be most useful to ask the person who first used the phrase to elaborate on the intended meaning.


please don't....he might try to answer, and then this whole thread will become nothing but a feces salad

John, AKA Dinnardin

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 7:24:30 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline 		That would be unfortunate... But I don't think it can really get that bad unless other people chose to donate the ingredients...

< Message edited by S2 -- 12/14/2009 7:25:04 PM >

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/14/2009 7:25:59 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

As such, I believe "Masterless kajira" would translate to "a female slave without a Master."


This or maybe "a slave who lacks Mastery in general"..which could just be the company of Men around her or a specific source. Hard to tell really what the originator of the term meant if anything beyond an attempted slur which did not make quite the impact hoped for.

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/15/2009 4:01:57 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S2

That would be unfortunate... But I don't think it can really get that bad unless other people chose to donate the ingredients...


Greetings S2

Yes it can....it really can. Hopefully he will stick to the thread he's been posting in and won't see this.

I wish you well,

Zeph


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/15/2009 4:48:56 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: S2

That would be unfortunate... But I don't think it can really get that bad unless other people chose to donate the ingredients...


Greetings S2

Yes it can....it really can. Hopefully he will stick to the thread he's been posting in and won't see this.

I wish you well,

Zeph



Or perhaps anyone who genuinely has no desire to see anything that Arturas posts will act like an adult responsible for their own welfare and use the foolproof "ignore" feature that's built into these boards.

I get the whole "I disagree with everything this person says" thing, but if you're going to turn it into a "I hope this person doesn't post because their postings are all crap" all you're doing is injecting drama into a thread by bemoaning a "problem" that is entirely within your capacity to solve.

_____________________________

you're just an empty cage, girl
if you kill the bird

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/15/2009 4:52:52 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: S2

That would be unfortunate... But I don't think it can really get that bad unless other people chose to donate the ingredients...


Greetings S2

Yes it can....it really can. Hopefully he will stick to the thread he's been posting in and won't see this.

I wish you well,

Zeph



Or perhaps anyone who genuinely has no desire to see anything that Arturas posts will act like an adult responsible for their own welfare and use the foolproof "ignore" feature that's built into these boards.

I get the whole "I disagree with everything this person says" thing, but if you're going to turn it into a "I hope this person doesn't post because their postings are all crap" all you're doing is injecting drama into a thread by bemoaning a "problem" that is entirely within your capacity to solve.

Well said!


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

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RE: Masterless kajira - 12/15/2009 4:58:55 AM   
MAWarGod


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		So this thread goes back to is a slave truly a slave without a Master??

OK We are a M/s or M's setting here... So whats that tell Us?

_____________________________

enjoying My permanent Vanilla cone!!

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