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of myself, Gor, and Goreans


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of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/13/2009 11:41:54 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline 		I feel I should do this, for better or worse.

To begin, I do love Gor. I have read all of the books (still working on Kur of Gor though), and most more than once. I fell in love with the world that was described in the book, the dynamics of Mastery and slavery, the philosophies, and the tid bits of wisdom that can be gleaned from time to time.

I had found, in the reading of the books, that Gorean culture to be vibrant and lively, not lacking in the passion for life. No doubt it can be often be harsh and brutal, but despite the hardships it has not became bitter and cynical.

Along with my love of Gor, of course came a desire to enjoy it with those who share the same love. Unfortunately, I recently realised that I do not truly know how to do so.

I admit that a large portion of my difficulties are likely the results of tendencies in my own behaviour. I tend not to speak up. Vast majority of the time I feel there is no reason for me to repeat what is already said, or I do not feel my thoughts were sufficiently interesting or beneficial to others to warrant being posted in a public forum. When I do speak up, it is usually compelled by strong disagreements. And that, expectedly, lead usually to arguements.

On the other hand, regrettably, as I do love Gor, and please forgive me for saying so, some of those who call themselves Goreans are among the most narrow-minded, hostile people I have ever encountered. Granted, there are idiots everywhere. However, it seems that it is among those who call themselves Goreans that I encounter those who seem to be well read, and consider themselves intellectuals, who are at the same time seem to be incomprehensibly rigid in their thinking, and blind to their own short comings.

I have seen examples of it in this very forum. People who state their person believes/opinions/interpretations as truth and fact, and react with hostility toward contrary view points. It was startling to say the least. Considering my understanding of Gor as encouraging individual and original thought, as opposed to conforming to slogans, coined phrases, and prevailing believes, I had thought it would be more tolerant of differing thoughts.

Returning to my dilemma. I do not seek argument, and I like to think I am somewhat successful at being as unconfrontational as I can while saying what I felt warranted saying. However, I also think that repeating "I agree" makes for poor conversation. Since disagreeing have proven to be unproductive, so I wonder, is it possible to have intelligent conversations without either agreeing or disagreeing. Am I capable of maintaining such a conversation (I like to think I am, though it seems I had not been able to do so successfully)? are there people capable of keeping such a conversation going? Maybe online forums impedes it, or does it promote such conversations?

Or perhaps, that is altogether the wrong approach for me to indulge in my love for Gor...
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 5:05:06 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings S1,

I think it is possible to agree and then expound on what you are agreeing with , with original thoughts, anecdotes or just a fresh point of view. Post on the topic at hand , combined with your own personal knowledge from things you have gone through in your life. You never know when something you say is going to touch someone and change their life forever.

well wishes
kisshou

(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 6:12:22 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Or perhaps, that is altogether the wrong approach for me to indulge in my love for Gor


Start by getting to know people, and letting people get to know you.

Be patient. "Stranger" means "enemy" in Gorean. No, not that people take that literally necessarily, but we've had parade after parade of circus clowns show up to set all Goreans straight, and that doesn't make things easy on the next new face. Or legs.

As Malkinius recently observed, plenty of people started out drawing fire, and over time, earned the community's respect.



_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 8:49:12 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2104
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		S2-
Gor was a planet. On this planet were thousands, perhaps millions of people.

Some were noble, kind, and trustworthy.
Some were cowardly, vicous, and treacherous.

Every manjack of them were Goreans. Real, authentic, TWUE Goreans.

Should these boards be any different?

(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 5:05:36 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
First, my thanks to the kind words that were posted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

S2-
Gor was a planet. On this planet were thousands, perhaps millions of people.

Some were noble, kind, and trustworthy.
Some were cowardly, vicous, and treacherous.

Every manjack of them were Goreans. Real, authentic, TWUE Goreans.

Should these boards be any different?


I would like to believe that those who would strive to meet an ideal are in the process to improve themselves. And as such, I would expect them to be more self-aware than the average population.

I also would like to believe that those who are drawn to philosophies that promotes strength, vitality, and honesty are interested in practicing such values. As such, I would expect them have more integrety than the average population.

Those who would call themselves Gorean have a choice. They chose to link their identity to Gor, they chose to adopt what they saw to be its ways. They then attach the label to themselves so it can be known to others, "Yes, this is what I choose to be".

Do people choose to be cowardly, vicious, and treacherous and then proudly announce to the world, "Yes, this is what I choose to be"? I hope not...

And to answer your question. Yes, these boards should be different.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 5:33:23 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		S2 -- Let me ask you this -- So how often does your Master allow you to dictate to him how he should be conducting himself as a Gorean Free?

Just call me curious, ya know.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/14/2009 5:41:12 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 5:41:10 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline 		My Master does not identify as Gorean.

Nonetheless, I do not dictate to him how he should behave.
And I have never put it to the test, but I imagine he will not allow me to dictate how he should behave.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 5:44:09 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Adtually i am working on shortening my posts lol.... so

Your own Master won't allow you to do it to him, how do you as a slave believe its okay for you to attempt to do to Gorean Free in general?

Sometimes it sucks to be a slave.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/14/2009 5:57:19 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 5:59:23 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Adtually i am working on shortening my posts lol.... so

Your own Master won't allow you to do it to him, how do you as a slave believe its okay for you to attempt to do to Gorean Free in general?

Sometimes it sucks to be a slave.


Perhaps I have high hopes for those who would call themselves Goreans.

I do hope, that with this thread, people can be inspired to look at themselves and ask "Is this how I really want to be? Is this really how I wish to represent something that I am passionate about?"

I do not attempt to be insidious, nor do I attempt subterfuge.

You (or any of the free) are within your right to say "I refuse to change my ways".

However, if some might see perhaps even a grain of truth in my words, hopefully they will be willing to say "I agree, and things could be better."

A slave can hope that the Masters be strong, proud and true. And a slave is often allowed to speak her mind.

< Message edited by S2 -- 12/14/2009 6:11:38 PM >

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 6:36:29 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Ahhh -- interesting.

So are you also going to have a thread for slave behavior and your expectations of them also because if you do, i will be sure to visit it.




angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/14/2009 6:45:05 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 6:57:05 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Ahhh -- interesting.

So are you also going to have a thread for slave behavior and your expectations of them also because if you do, i will be sure to visit it.

angel


If you wish for such a thread to exist, I will go make one right a way.

If you would like to post your expectations for slaves here, I will look forward to it.

If you would like to know how I expect slaves to behave, let me know, and I will start composing my reply.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 7:01:08 PM   
eponavet


Posts: 406
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline

This should be interesting....

_____________________________

~ You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here, and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should ~


(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 7:32:10 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		grins, oh vey, a challenge? And you say you are successful at not being confrontational. I think we can safely say that your initial post everything but the paragraphs about your disapproval and judgment of the Free is pretty much the smokescreen lol.

Maybe i just haven't been paying much attention of late, but you HAVE a Master -- you wouldn't conduct YOURSELF in this manner TO him about HIS conduct, but you fully believe its okay to do so to the general Free.

I am simply confused --- When i was a slave, and yes it was a long while ago, so i may be a little rusty in my understanding of the slavery, i was more free to speak my mind to my Master, than to Gorean Free in general. And i knew if i wouldn't do something to or with my Master, i sure the hell didn't do it to the general population and most of what i was allowed in private with him, when he was enjoying me in all my smartassedness, opinionated and argumentative self, i wouldn't dare bring to a public venue especially among Free in general. My Master would have beat me within an inch of my life i am sure as well as restricting any communication until such time i realized that i didn't have the luxury of believing my perception meant anything beyond the taste of it on my tongue.

I definitely wouldn't attempt to manipulate Free and indicate disapproval to Free on their conduct BECAUSE i wouldn't do it even with my own Master.

You seem to have it reversed. You do with the general Free what you wouldn't attempt with your own Master. I am just trying to understand cause i think the slavery is a little foggy to me now.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/14/2009 7:42:42 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 7:47:05 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_1990621/mpage_1/tm.htm

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/14/2009 8:46:03 PM   
S2


Posts: 54
Joined: 11/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

grins, oh vey, a challenge? And you say you are successful at not being confrontational. I think we can safely say that your initial post everything but the paragraphs about your disapproval and judgment of the Free is pretty much the smokescreen lol.

Maybe i just haven't been paying much attention of late, but you HAVE a Master -- you wouldn't conduct YOURSELF in this manner TO him about HIS conduct, but you fully believe its okay to do so to the general Free.

I am simply confused --- When i was a slave, and yes it was a long while ago, so i may be a little rusty in my understanding of the slavery, i was more free to speak my mind to my Master, than to Gorean Free in general. And i knew if i wouldn't do something to or with my Master, i sure the hell didn't do it to the general population and most of what i was allowed in private with him, when he was enjoying me in all my smartassedness, opinionated and argumentative self, i wouldn't dare bring to a public venue especially among Free in general. My Master would have beat me within an inch of my life i am sure as well as restricting any communication until such time i realized that i didn't have the luxury of believing my perception meant anything beyond the taste of it on my tongue.

I definitely wouldn't attempt to manipulate Free and indicate disapproval to Free on their conduct BECAUSE i wouldn't do it even with my own Master.

You seem to have it reversed. You do with the general Free what you wouldn't attempt with your own Master. I am just trying to understand cause i think the slavery is a little foggy to me now.

angel


I am not sure how I managed to issue a challenge, but I apologise if it seemed that way. In my previous post, I merely offered to be cooperative since you seemed to have expressed an interest.

And if I may clarify, I do behave as I do now toward my Master. I will speak my mind, I will point out flaws when I see them, and I will share with him opinions about all the things that he talks about.

What I do not do is to expect him take my words at face value. If he agrees with me, he says so, if he disagrees with me, he says so. He doesn't change his ways just because I say so, nor does he simply silence me when he doesn't like what I have to say. If I crossed a line, he takes a crop to my behind, but I am still expected to share with him everything that goes on between my ears. Even if my thoughts will carry no weight in his decision making, he still want to know them.

If the issue is manipulation, then I think the concern is unjustified. Afterall, how much leverage does my words actually have? If you don't want to hear what I have to say, there is a convienent "Hide" button you can use. If you are concerned that my words might somehow sway the unsuspecting masses, you are welcome to provide a contrary voice.

I point out what I noticed, and people are free to decide for themselves what they choose to do with that information.

Regarding "I am just trying to understand cause i think the slavery is a little foggy to me now", I am going to err on the side of caution and assume you are just being sarcastic. If I assumed incorrectly, I would be happy to elaborate on what is proper slave behaviour as understood by me.

quote:


http://www.collarchat.com/m_1990621/mpage_1/tm.htm


Thank you for providing the link, I will strive to avoid the negative pattern described. And please do point out to me if I strayed too close to it, so I can learn from my mistakes.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/15/2009 4:48:43 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		S2 -- So how often does your Master allow you to dictate to him how he should be conducting himself as a Gorean Free?

Gorean aside, you are his slave and therefore he is Free. You stated pretty much you don't and more than likely wouldn't. And have now changed it to admit you do. Whether you understand it or not, it really does explain a lot.

See i didn't believe you when you stated you don't initially. You were way to comfortable dictating to the to general Free on how they should conduct themselves. That comfortableness is not a result of a slave of a Man who doesn't apply same regularly or who gets negative or boundries set with regard to same.

Thanks for the clarification. I said it sucks to be a slave before, it does. Why should i hide you. I have no issue with what you have said lol, however, i did want to point out to you the irony of your own behavior as a slave. grins, you speak as if your words are truth and your perception as a slave in how free should conduct themselves is the truth of Free but more importantly - you are missing why your perceptoin is flawed simply because you ARE a slave hinders your ability to accurately determine what should be the behavior of Free. If you want to discuss it, let me know.


angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/15/2009 5:48:13 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/15/2009 5:00:51 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		angel I wish you would just shut up and go away. Once again you are ruining a perfectly good topic of conversation and turning it into a personal attack.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/15/2009 5:02:12 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S2


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

grins, oh vey, a challenge? And you say you are successful at not being confrontational. I think we can safely say that your initial post everything but the paragraphs about your disapproval and judgment of the Free is pretty much the smokescreen lol.

Maybe i just haven't been paying much attention of late, but you HAVE a Master -- you wouldn't conduct YOURSELF in this manner TO him about HIS conduct, but you fully believe its okay to do so to the general Free.

I am simply confused --- When i was a slave, and yes it was a long while ago, so i may be a little rusty in my understanding of the slavery, i was more free to speak my mind to my Master, than to Gorean Free in general. And i knew if i wouldn't do something to or with my Master, i sure the hell didn't do it to the general population and most of what i was allowed in private with him, when he was enjoying me in all my smartassedness, opinionated and argumentative self, i wouldn't dare bring to a public venue especially among Free in general. My Master would have beat me within an inch of my life i am sure as well as restricting any communication until such time i realized that i didn't have the luxury of believing my perception meant anything beyond the taste of it on my tongue.

I definitely wouldn't attempt to manipulate Free and indicate disapproval to Free on their conduct BECAUSE i wouldn't do it even with my own Master.

You seem to have it reversed. You do with the general Free what you wouldn't attempt with your own Master. I am just trying to understand cause i think the slavery is a little foggy to me now.

angel


I am not sure how I managed to issue a challenge, but I apologise if it seemed that way. In my previous post, I merely offered to be cooperative since you seemed to have expressed an interest.

And if I may clarify, I do behave as I do now toward my Master. I will speak my mind, I will point out flaws when I see them, and I will share with him opinions about all the things that he talks about.

What I do not do is to expect him take my words at face value. If he agrees with me, he says so, if he disagrees with me, he says so. He doesn't change his ways just because I say so, nor does he simply silence me when he doesn't like what I have to say. If I crossed a line, he takes a crop to my behind, but I am still expected to share with him everything that goes on between my ears. Even if my thoughts will carry no weight in his decision making, he still want to know them.

If the issue is manipulation, then I think the concern is unjustified. Afterall, how much leverage does my words actually have? If you don't want to hear what I have to say, there is a convienent "Hide" button you can use. If you are concerned that my words might somehow sway the unsuspecting masses, you are welcome to provide a contrary voice.

I point out what I noticed, and people are free to decide for themselves what they choose to do with that information.

Regarding "I am just trying to understand cause i think the slavery is a little foggy to me now", I am going to err on the side of caution and assume you are just being sarcastic. If I assumed incorrectly, I would be happy to elaborate on what is proper slave behaviour as understood by me.

quote:


http://www.collarchat.com/m_1990621/mpage_1/tm.htm


Thank you for providing the link, I will strive to avoid the negative pattern described. And please do point out to me if I strayed too close to it, so I can learn from my mistakes.

Your Master sounds like a good man. For whats its worth, i didn't see anything in your post that looked like you were trying to "dictate" anything to your Master, but were doing what he told you to, and that is, tell him "what goes on between your ears"...If you were TOLD to do that by YOUR MASTER....then i wouldn't worry about the peanut gallery LOL!

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/15/2009 5:11:41 AM >

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to S2)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/15/2009 5:05:30 AM   
Dinnardin


Posts: 368
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline 		Angel...she has said REPEATEDLY that her Master does not consider himself to be Gorean.  So...STOP DEMANDING THAT HE BE GOREAN.

John, AKA Dinnardin

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: of myself, Gor, and Goreans - 12/15/2009 5:25:52 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Awww gee kisshou, let's see you wish i would shut up and go away. Chuckles, sorry but ummm welll -- no. i haven't attacked her -- i am asking her questions and clarifying what i am seeing. But i guess that's wrong to do because well you don't like it.

Its ironic, you seem to think its OKAY for HER to whinge and whine and disapprove about how Gorean Free are conducting themselves on this forum, but when i call her on her OWN behavior as a slave -- you want me to shut up and go away.

Interesting.
angel

PS, just for kicks and giggles -- kisshou have you really even READ her responses and see what she is actually saying. Or are you too focused on ME? Perhaps you should try focusing less on me and more on her responses.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/15/2009 5:48:56 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Dinnardin)
Profile   Post #: 20
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