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I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 10:52:25 AM

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People have gotten so excited over the protocol of "collaring" that I find submissive men, even those that I may take great interest in, seem to hang their hopes on the collar as the end all, be all of submission. I've never been a fan of the concept because it's so ambiguous and would require such clarification, on a case-by-case-basis, that it's just better to be open, transparent and honest about relationship status.

Still, I struggle with the concept of possessiveness (when is it appropriate, when is it not), "marking my territory," or making a man feel as though he *has* reached a very special place in my eyes. But to call that a "collaring" then brings on the baggage and burdens of the conceptions both from outsiders as well as whatever pre-determined ideals the submissive may have. So I just figure it's safest and easiest emotionally to not focus so much on this type of thing, and just continue to evaluate boundaries.

These casual (but well-intentioned) collarings often have to end (inevitably) for real life reasons - then there's the dreaded "de-collaring" ceremony? Or it the entire thing just brushed under the carpet as if it never happened? It's these kind of awkward formalities that I think do more harm than the "good" that may come from the warm fuzzies both people may get from making something seem "official."

If I took the few men that occupy a special place in my femdom heart/lust and officially "collared" them, even though they have their own rules/regulations and expectations (which are all different because everyone's circumstances are different) it may make me - and them - feel like we've got something more "official." But is it worth it in the long run?

What about those awkward conversations, like "Even though things are still different, can I still wear your collar?" (figuratively). Or "Does this mean I am not wearing your collar any more?" or "Well since I am wearing your collar, I assumed..." -- all of those conversations could be avoided if the official "collaring" was just eliminated and replaced with direct conversation.

Thoughts?

Akasha

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 11:26:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

People have gotten so excited over the protocol of "collaring" that I find submissive men, even those that I may take great interest in, seem to hang their hopes on the collar as the end all, be all of submission. I've never been a fan of the concept because it's so ambiguous and would require such clarification, on a case-by-case-basis, that it's just better to be open, transparent and honest about relationship status.

Still, I struggle with the concept of possessiveness (when is it appropriate, when is it not), "marking my territory," or making a man feel as though he *has* reached a very special place in my eyes. But to call that a "collaring" then brings on the baggage and burdens of the conceptions both from outsiders as well as whatever pre-determined ideals the submissive may have. So I just figure it's safest and easiest emotionally to not focus so much on this type of thing, and just continue to evaluate boundaries.

These casual (but well-intentioned) collarings often have to end (inevitably) for real life reasons - then there's the dreaded "de-collaring" ceremony? Or it the entire thing just brushed under the carpet as if it never happened? It's these kind of awkward formalities that I think do more harm than the "good" that may come from the warm fuzzies both people may get from making something seem "official."

If I took the few men that occupy a special place in my femdom heart/lust and officially "collared" them, even though they have their own rules/regulations and expectations (which are all different because everyone's circumstances are different) it may make me - and them - feel like we've got something more "official." But is it worth it in the long run?

What about those awkward conversations, like "Even though things are still different, can I still wear your collar?" (figuratively). Or "Does this mean I am not wearing your collar any more?" or "Well since I am wearing your collar, I assumed..." -- all of those conversations could be avoided if the official "collaring" was just eliminated and replaced with direct conversation.

Thoughts?

Akasha

Well, personally, I never saw a collar as much more than the equivalent of an engagement/wedding ring. Same symbol, same meaning, different references.

One Domina I know, puts 1 of 3 collars on Her sub (come to think of this, I've seen other members - both male & female alike, speak about this in various threads). Depending on where they are at in their dynamic. There's the "training" collar, the "consideration" collar, then the final "permanent" collar. Each one being more serious than the last.

Regarding a "de-collaring" ceremony, to be honest, thats the first I ever heard of one. I suppose it would be the same thing as an annullment and/or divorce, minus the huge court costs, lol. But, I think the biggest problem is that collars are given out with such frequency, that it's lost its meaning.

Ultimately, It depends on the two people involved. Some have such deep relationships, that no clarification is need on what it means , or whats expected when he/she places their collar on a sub. Also, there may be some psychological undertones to it as well. Specifically, the feeling of finality - granted, sometimes relationships don't work out, but there is always that sense of "this is it, I'm that persons sub" when a collar is put on them.

Whether or not it's worth it is up to the person placing the collar. I mean,(and to anyone whos reading this, please don't take offense) there are some Dominants out there that are married, but have a dynamic "on the side" - maybe because there's something that they aren't getting out of their marriage, or whatever the case may be.

In a case like that, then yeah, I'd wonder if it was worth it (especially if the submissive in question is looking for something a bit more.. permanent, and one on one)

However, in a case where both parties didn't have any prior ties, then IMO, it would be worth it.

I do think that it's mainly because the sub want's assurance (at least, thats how I've felt on several occasions) that he is *Hers* and the collar is a physical manifestation of that. It's easy to go back on one's word. It's a bit harder to rescind something thats physical..

If that makes any sense?

Anyway, just my thoughts.

_____________________________

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Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 12:29:49 PM

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My sub had what turned out to be a velcro collar in his previous relationship. He misses the feeling of being OWNED, but is very cynical about collars now.

For myself, and many of us old timers, there is a COLLAR, that represents ownership. (yes, akin to a marriage). I feel very seriously about that kind of thing, and I doubt that I will own anyone in the foreseeable future, the responsibility is just too tremendous. (and here I say YES I do indeed scoff at the whole tiered collar thing---collar of consideration, hah! D/s is not the scouts, we are not earning merit badges here.)

If I have an attachment, a play relationship, a D/s relationship, that is between me and her/him/them. I am not going to offer a collar as if the relationship is going to be a permanent one, or quasi-permanent, unless I really FEEL that it will be, and have reasonable evidence that it will.

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 1:10:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

all of those conversations could be avoided if the official "collaring" was just eliminated and replaced with direct conversation.

Probably, but as I love watching my slave in vanilla situations with his collar out there for the world to see and no one the wiser as to the nature of his "necklace", I am unlikely to eliminate the practice.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 3:46:15 PM

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(fast reply)

Greetings,

The entire idea of a collar has recently come up in my life. Though I know that many people see a collar as similar to a wedding/engagement ring, after much thought I've come to the conclusion that I don't view it this way.

As I'm sure all of recognize, there are many types of relationships. I have/had friends, lovers, casual fuck-buddies, my life-partner, play partners, etc. Each of these relationships is unique. Some were/are monogamous and some where open. Some I have been a part of for 20yrs and others I've only just met.

The man I've been talking to is married (not cheating). I am attached (also not cheating). To me, my most important relationship will always be with my partner. This is not to say that a relationship with a boy will not be important but, at this point, as I'm not interested in a poly situation, a relationship with a potential boy would take second place. Should I expect this potential play partner to place me above his wife? I don't think that is right. If things progress as we have been talking, we both are looking for some form of commitment, but within the confines of our existing lives. Does this mean that a collar offered and accepted by me to him would be any less valid than one that existed between a married couple? Conceivably, this collar would not be intended to last forever. Does this make what exists between us less valid?

I see a collar as the physical representation of the commitment that exists between two people. As long as both parties are investing the same amount of energy and commitment into the collar then I don't think it is appropriate for anyone else to stand in judgment of that commitment. That all being said, I still use the term 'velcro-collar' to denote a collar given with no thought of the future or what a commitment between both parties may entail.

Kind of murky ground when one takes the time to think about it.

Good luck to the OP,
Wickad

(in reply to Ladynslave)

RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 4:35:18 PM

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I also see the collar as a physical symbol of commitment. The fact that something like a simple neck chain can mean so much to two people is indeed wonderful. I also think it isnt something to be rushed into, or to be taken lightly.

Akasha, is it not possible for someone to wear your collar, and all that it represents, as well as having set boundaries for the relationship ? I am not suggesting everyone should do this, just that it`s an idea.

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 5:14:04 PM

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People have gotten so excited over the protocol of "collaring" that I find submissive men, even those that I may take great interest in, seem to hang their hopes on the collar as the end all, be all of submission.

I've never got excited about the protocol of "collaring". Perhaps only 'true subs' do - and I don't, because I'm not one. I'm either damned or I'm a special and desirable exception, depending on the day of the week (or so it seems).

Nah. I can't keep up with it all.

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 5:22:44 PM

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You are extra speshul, Peon!! Limited edition French Fancies, that's you!

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 5:33:59 PM

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Awww shaddup!

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 5:35:15 PM

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Manor cake with extra sultanas, then?

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 5:45:42 PM

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Ahhh . . . I remember the 'manor cake' convo, Lady Hib. I still think it's squidgy pap, I have to say. But we must stop derailing Akasha's thread at this point . . . .

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 5:54:05 PM

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"Why even bother?" That's one of those questions that has no answer, simply because if you have to ask it, there isn't an answer. Some people, for all sorts of reasons, do think it means something. Some people are attracted to structure and protocol. Some are repelled by them. Some are simply indifferent. (I count myself in that camp.) The invention of tradition is itself a tradition. Some feel the bdsm realm needs its own "traditions" and "rituals", so they are speedily inventing them. It all reminds me a bit of the SCA at times, except that SCA folk don't try to live out their SCA personae in the mundane world.

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 7:09:57 PM

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I appreciate the feedback so far - to clarify, I am not so much talking about the collar as a symbol physically (I use collars all the time, I have to, I have a big leash/doggie fetish so collars are integral to my play - So I don't AVOID the use of a leather collar, for example) - I am talking about collaring and using a "collar" (whether a physical one exists as a manifestation of the "promise") as making a relationship "official."

How many femdoms have heard, "Am I your slave now?" or "Am I now wearing your collar?" Some subs have just adopted this ritual to identify themselves as reaching a goal. For some, it's a matter of security or pride. Others really like to feel *owned*. The problem is, all subs attach different things to the idea of "being collared" -- and while this can be discussed and agreed upon, it's always going to fluctuate depending on the man and his life and his outside relationships as well as mine.

Does it mean exclusivity? Does it mean he can't have a girlfriend? Does it mean he can't submit to other femdoms? Does it mean he has to be available at my beck and call?

Then turn it around: What responsibility does this "commitment" have on the femdom? For some subs, being collared "to a femdom" means that she's now responsible for his submissive well being - is he being nurtured? Is he getting all of his needs met? Does he feel neglected? Does the expectation of "being collared" match his fantasy?

Ultimately, the chance for failure - based on expectations -- to me seems to outweigh the positives. And this is because so much of a big deal has been made of what "collaring" means that subs have developed a very idealized view of it, and so while they are over the moon when it happens, it can only go one of two ways indefinitely - it's either going to just "fizzle out" or have to be renegotiated because of hurt feelings. How can "uncollaring" a man be good for anyone? All of a sudden, the changing parameters of a relationship aren't just that -- the natural progression of an "evolving" friendship/partnership -- it's now a big deal. A ritual that has to be "undone" and all the hurt feelings that go along with it.

I think what my conclusion for me is, personally, is that I will find a completely different way around this. Unfortunately some submissive men, if they are seeking something longterm, view some sort of collar as part of the holy grail.

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 12/17/2009 7:10:39 PM >

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 7:29:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
.... I am talking about collaring and using a "collar" (whether a physical one exists as a manifestation of the "promise") as making a relationship "official."

How many femdoms have heard, "Am I your slave now?" or "Am I now wearing your collar?" Some subs have just adopted this ritual to identify themselves as reaching a goal. For some, it's a matter of security or pride. Others really like to feel *owned*. The problem is, all subs attach different things to the idea of "being collared" -- and while this can be discussed and agreed upon, it's always going to fluctuate depending on the man and his life and his outside relationships as well as mine.

Maybe it is a goal. Is that not a good thing? To strive to be owned? To earn said ownership?

quote:

Does it mean exclusivity? Does it mean he can't have a girlfriend? Does it mean he can't submit to other femdoms? Does it mean he has to be available at my beck and call?

I'd say that depends on your relationship and how you choose to define it.

quote:

Then turn it around: What responsibility does this "commitment" have on the femdom? For some subs, being collared "to a femdom" means that she's now responsible for his submissive well being - is he being nurtured? Is he getting all of his needs met? Does he feel neglected? Does the expectation of "being collared" match his fantasy?

There is more and more talk around here about male subs and their fantasies being met. I feel a little confused a lot of the time because isn't that part of it? I don't understand why the male needs are in question here. A collar means what you want it to mean. If he (and you) take a collar to mean his well-being will be looked after, then it does. And shouldn't his needs be looked after regardless? I'm not sure how a collar changes the dynamic at all.

quote:

Ultimately, the chance for failure - based on expectations -- to me seems to outweigh the positives. And this is because so much of a big deal has been made of what "collaring" means that subs have developed a very idealized view of it, and so while they are over the moon when it happens, it can only go one of two ways indefinitely - it's either going to just "fizzle out" or have to be renegotiated because of hurt feelings. How can "uncollaring" a man be good for anyone? All of a sudden, the changing parameters of a relationship aren't just that -- the natural progression of an "evolving" friendship/partnership -- it's now a big deal. A ritual that has to be "undone" and all the hurt feelings that go along with it.

I'm not sure how any of this is really any different than a relationship. When a couple becomes "official" it can either go two ways. A good way, where you're together forever and are madly in love; or the bad way, you break up, things fizzle out as you say. Are you going to avoid relationships because you've been hurt in the past? Are you going to give up on collars because some subs get the wrong idea?

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 7:35:42 PM

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When I first started out, the idea of a collar was a huge thing to and for me. When I was first collared, it really hit me deep and it seemed to be more important than any relationship I'd had to that date. Now, well, I see it more as a thing that happened more from learning than from actual physical embodiment of the collar. The collar itself really didn't mean that much. Nor did the "idea" of the collar. It was the first brush with the complete unknown that really did it for me, and the "collar" seemed to represent things that I allowed myself to believe were bigger than they really are.

So, yeah, I can see exactly what you're saying here, Akasha. I mean, we run in different types of circles, but at the same time I can see how someone who is pursuing the end all of relationships (as the collar) to be something that might be somewhat irritating and frustrating. But I'm thinking that what you're running into (and this is just my interpretation on the words presented here, based on some knowledge of some circumstances) is a series of potential longer term partners who are at a stage in the relationship where they put way far more drama into the collar than is necessary in your juncture at this particular time.

I was at that stage at one point, and I can EASILY see how if I was at that stage back then and in your crosshairs how that would have led to exactly what you've posted here. Unfortunately, the trappings of the lifestyle sometimes have a life of their own and lead to consequences beyond what we really want to experience, but because some people are so locked into their particular level of fantasy and position at any one point and time, it's hard to disuade people from acting out some of the problematic circumstances that can sometimes add all sorts of drama to these relationships.

Anyway, that's really all I have to say about this. Good luck getting past it and to what you are actually seeking.

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 8:10:50 PM

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My flippant answer to you, Aakasha, would be that if that is the case, don't collar anyone. LOL.

Yes, in My experience, the collar is the symbol of ownership that many submissives crave. It's wired in them somehow. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Completely to the contrary. For those submissives who want to serve and those feelings run deep within them, I don't see anything wrong with them wanting that fulfillment.

At the same time, every pairing is different. It's entirely possible to have a good top/bottom play relationship for years, even with some D/s thrown in and I haven't wanted to own them. Something similar to the old stand by of saying, I don't have to have Mr Right. I'm good with Mr Right Now. LOL.

In the vast scheme of things, I've only collared two individuals in over a decade. One released himself and clip has been collared to Me for over two years. There was no 'de-collaring' when My first slave released himself. It was the same as any other person ending an arrangement.

I do still use the multi collar system. It's helped Me to save Myself from a few mistakes over the years, so I'm glad I have it in place. Not a soul batted an eye when I changed My thoughts from clip being temporarily with Me to considering it a permanent situation. If that collar of consideration easily translates to 'exclusively dating' and I don't have to explain Myself a dozen times a day, then it's a successful practice.

What I'm trying to say here is, if it's working for you and the people you're involved with, go for it. If it's not, access the incompatibility, goals, and wants and see where you have to go from there.

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 8:42:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

People have gotten so excited over the protocol of "collaring" that I find submissive men, even those that I may take great interest in, seem to hang their hopes on the collar as the end all, be all of submission. I've never been a fan of the concept because it's so ambiguous and would require such clarification, on a case-by-case-basis, that it's just better to be open, transparent and honest about relationship status.

Still, I struggle with the concept of possessiveness (when is it appropriate, when is it not), "marking my territory," or making a man feel as though he *has* reached a very special place in my eyes. But to call that a "collaring" then brings on the baggage and burdens of the conceptions both from outsiders as well as whatever pre-determined ideals the submissive may have. So I just figure it's safest and easiest emotionally to not focus so much on this type of thing, and just continue to evaluate boundaries.

These casual (but well-intentioned) collarings often have to end (inevitably) for real life reasons - then there's the dreaded "de-collaring" ceremony? Or it the entire thing just brushed under the carpet as if it never happened? It's these kind of awkward formalities that I think do more harm than the "good" that may come from the warm fuzzies both people may get from making something seem "official."

If I took the few men that occupy a special place in my femdom heart/lust and officially "collared" them, even though they have their own rules/regulations and expectations (which are all different because everyone's circumstances are different) it may make me - and them - feel like we've got something more "official." But is it worth it in the long run?

What about those awkward conversations, like "Even though things are still different, can I still wear your collar?" (figuratively). Or "Does this mean I am not wearing your collar any more?" or "Well since I am wearing your collar, I assumed..." -- all of those conversations could be avoided if the official "collaring" was just eliminated and replaced with direct conversation.

Thoughts?

Akasha

Again, I totally get where you are coming from. I don't do the collar thing for the exact reasons you are saying. One day, a boy will wear a "collar" of sorts and it will be a wedding ring. That hasn't happened yet. Until then, I will continue to simply have devoted boys.

- LA

_____________________________

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RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/17/2009 8:52:47 PM

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Well, to me personally, a collar has always just been another piece of kink/bondage equipment. Like a pair of handcuffs or a gag. It's part of play and can create certain feelings when put on, but it doesn't hold any significant, symbolic meaning. Actually, I'd prefer it not to. If I am going to be exclusive with someone then I'd rather go about that in the vanilla way of just... asking if we're exclusive. The idea of officially "collaring" someone always seemed a bit... precious to me.

< Message edited by sodsta -- 12/17/2009 9:00:44 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: I don't "collar" anyone. Why even bother? - 12/18/2009 7:14:58 AM

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In my previous two D/s relationships, one for 5 years as a Domme, and one for 3 years as a submissive, we didn't use collars as a symbol, though we did use them in play. In my current relationship, I found myself being a bit drawn to the idea of a tangible symbol, and mentioned it to him once. He said he would take that into consideration, but hasn't decided to do so yet. We use "owned" but not "collared" as my relationship status descriptor. It's kind of funny, in the past, I liked wearing collars, but it was more of a practical bondage or fashion thing, rather than having any deeper meaning. I actually thought of the whole collaring thing as a mostly internet phenomena, along with S/slashy s/Speak and weird capitalisation of pronouns.

It really sounds like collaring doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to you as it does to the men in question. Even if you choose to follow through with it, having different expectations can wind up causing some problems, IMHO. If a collar primarily means to you "control during scene, hot to see him wearing it" while he sees it as an incredibly deep commitment, equivalent to engagement or marriage, giving him what he wants will probably lead to him expecting, or at least hoping for, all of those emotional ties that go with it in his mind.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 12/18/2009 7:19:51 AM >

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