Nephilim
Posts: 143
Joined: 3/27/2007
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I thought I would ramble a bit on this thread, as it is slow this evening. I don't claim to be eloquent or even all that comprehensible at all times, so if you are looking for something to pick apart, this post is really low hanging fruit, lol.
Gor examines many cultures based on historical earth culture and draws comparison and contrast. Gor itself seems to be a place for the many ideas of the different cultures to mull around for JN without simply describing an ideal. There are many ideas different people take from the books. Also, I think the books appeal to people who already have these thoughts and enjoy their illustrations and someone else's views of application on a light level. So, many people who read the books and find their way into these communities ARE finding the things they like in fiction and reality and applying them to their daily lives. I know I take much more into account than the works of JN in the search and I assume most others do as well but my point is that what we agree with and apply. I agree with the previous responses that the answer could take the form of more novels. It could also be outlined as sets of principles and dogma that we chose to embrace. As has been stated, either way, it takes quite a time to sum up all of the information, and I have great respect for those who have done so and set it into print, but most of us have not.
One thing I disagree with so far in the thread is the idea that we cannot change the reality of earth or that it would be difficult. It seems a philosophical or really a point of perspective. It seems to me, that one of the recurring themes in the novels that I have identified with is a practical approach of a subjective reality. While many of us seek "truth" and some independent verifiable fact, we should also accept what is as matter of fact whether it be moved by unseen forces or not. What I mean by that is there is an example of a peasant going about his daily task that Tarl meets on the road, the peasant is a plot device to tell the hero that his home city was destroyed but what I hope was also intended in these types of situation is the realization that even though a city close by met with destruction at the hands of their perceived gods, they still carried on their daily tasks, they were still ubar in their own home, movements of the world didn't shake their ideals. I would wager had his home been picked up and set down on earth that he would continue on in the same manner as always, even if tarnsmen were traded for fighter jets and pack animals for cars. There are counter examples, but I think they are meant to draw contrast. Point is that in most people's searches we come to realize that even if not "truth", it is our subjective case that matters most. I am reminded of a movie that I had many issues with (manly its attempt at disproving god through questionable science), "what the bleep do we know", in it they argue that each person is god because reality is created by observation. Even if it isn't the case, it is all that we can "prove" after many people a lot smarter than us tried to pick things apart to the point of rational fact. From a practical standpoint, I think it all points to the idea that we should create our own reality in the parts that we control and make it to our own tastes and opinions and I think that is one of the core ideas of being Gorean. Some take this to the point of "internal" identification as Gorean or of having certain principles but I prefer to think that we can actually take it to an extreme where very little is out of our grasp in creating our own vision of what things should be.
We live in one of the most tolerant societies with more ability for more social mobility and malleability than at any other time in history. Many would argue that we aren't given much freedom and I agree and don't think it should be so. We are given as much freedom as we can Take and hold on to. Sure, you can't do as you like in any place, but you can either go someplace where you can do as you like (and there are places in the world where you can do pretty much anything governed only by physics,if that) or we can rally others to our cause and very quickly and effectively change things. This is another concept that many draw from the Gor Chronicles. The idea of personal responsibility and consequences. It applies in that we don't whine about what we are given, we take what we need and what we want from our world and are thankful for its bounty and respectful of its truths.
Another thing many like from the stories is the Caste system. Castes do exist on earth, perhaps a good thing that can come from reading books that mirror our society is that we can learn about ourselves and decide what we wish to perpetuate. We do have organizations for tradesmen, just as in the books. We have people posting in this forum who identify as the cast of warriors and are, in fact, in the military. I have personally worked with many construction trades (builders) and they are reflected in the characters of Gor. Our world is much more expansive than Gor and so we have more complex systems, but those positive ideals are there if you look for them. What I find with the many people I talk to is that the ideas that give people such negative outlooks is, more often than not, ignorance. I don't claim to know it all, or really even a lot, but I am always surprised to find out that the motivations of many peoples actions are based on lack of information. This leads me to believe that among people there are many different levels of knowledge including "second knowledge" and perhaps third. The truth, I find is that if someone comes to a second knowledge without their own efforts, there is little they will do with it once gained. We have routes in our society to find this information and for people to change caste. Those who complain and feel as though they haven't had a fair deal or are jealous of others seem to exhibit what JN identifies as a natural slave. In JNs world the only ones worth spending much effort in training are actually the most beautiful of the women.
Slavery also does exist in many forms. We do have basic chattel slavery, even if many wish to turn a blind eye or pretend our society is more "advanced" than that. Our products are probably as dependent on various forms of slavery today as they were centuries ago. Also, the strong Master/Slave relationships that JN expresses also exist. Not just here in those of us who have reasoned our way and coupled our desires to find ourselves here but many who simply naturally live that way. Spousal abuse is a horrible thing, but we all know of or have seen women who are slave to their "vanilla" husband who abuses her. What is this if not the complete abuse of a natural slave? Of course, Gor doesn't promote that and I don't condone it, only point it out that if the bad examples exist, it seems to follow that many live their lives quietly in a Master/Slave relationship as we would define it without ever knowing it. Many women would call being a "slave" the same as being a "good wife".
Another theme that resonates with me in the novels is the concept of each person taking pride in their work and performing their craft with dedication. It seems to me that many of us enjoy creating things and many of us consider the things that we produce as part of our own self valuation. We seek to improve ourselves, the things we own and the things we produce. There is an art to everything and while we can't be the best at everything, we can attempt to perfect our craft and learn where we can. While we take pride in the things we own, possessions are not all that important. In the Gorean homes described in the books, there is little ornamentation and few trivialities. Partly this seems due to the large amount of time that would go into living in an agrarian society but also it seems to be intentional. The idea of appreciating beauty but not being materialistic.
Anyway, enough rambling about the Sunday school level virtues and onto the aesthetics, which is probably more what the thread was meant to be about. I think any positive melding of philosophies does focus on sharpening ones skills and training mind and body. This is expressed in the slaves as well as many of the free. The slaves seek to be as aesthetically pleasing as possible. In the real world, I think we all need a regimen of physical training and learning. Some of us set that for ourselves and those of the slave type, need it set for them. Once established, it leads to happier people in general.
Many of the people who identify with Gor are also members of SCA and those types of groups. I think part of this comes from the idea of craftsmanship and involvement in their own garb as well as kinship and desire for revelry. I think certainly anyone who thinks of the things closest to their bodies that they wear each day considers their production and design. In many cases they were produced in poor working conditions with the cheapest materials available. Although, I don't think it is feasible for everyone to switch to custom tailored wardrobe, I think many of us enjoy the opportunity to wear and have close to us things that have greater meaning attached.
Also, I don't think we can or should throw away religion. Wars have been fought over many things, but as far as I know it is rarely as simple as religion. Since many societies didn't differentiate between religion and government, it is easy to see it as a main cause. I think that if religion were never associated with government or governments didn't claim the authority of god, you would have had just as many wars, but they would have used different reasoning. Generally "religious" wars have multiple truths, perhaps a "first knowledge" of we are fighting the neighbors because our god said so, they defile god; are blasphemers; devil worshipers; yada yada yada, second knowledge of "we need the territory to feed people" and third knowledge of "the king wants more power". I think religion (at least spirituality) comes from our attempt to intuit and feel out our reality. As animals, our brains can send out chemicals that make us feel "understanding" or "enlightenment", ask anyone who has dropped LSD and understood something like the pofoundness of the color yellow. I think these feelings do feed into our overal happiness and satisfaction. All of this apart from the idea of an actual truth being out there and the need for worship for stated religious reasons.
< Message edited by Nephilim -- 12/31/2009 8:57:07 PM >
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RE: Gor meets Earth - 
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