RE: Within the Circle of His Steel

Create a
Free Account

As the Collar Turns:

Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home Login Search

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: Within the Circle of His Steel

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/2/2010 7:56:28 PM

Falaria

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline

Tal Nephilim,

While I respect your point of view in regards to what you say about children I will have to greatly disagree with you. My ex was not the disciplinarian in our family, especially with our oldest. When she threw a tantrum as a toddler he took and tried to coax her to stop while I did what I had read about, take a small bit of cold water, toss it on them then walk away from them. I only had to do that twice. Years later when she got online I told him we needed to monitor what she was doing, he said he would when in fact he didn't. Needless to say she ended up in trouble & I had to deal with it. Which is fine with me, that is what a parent is suppose to do, but he later removed her punishment without telling me about it. Do this day he wonders why she is so selfish & self centered & I just look at him & said "She learned it from you. Why do you think she does the things with you that she doesn't dare try to do to me? Because I taught her to respect me, where she really doesn't have much respect for you." Both of our kids are more scared of disappointing me, their mother, then they are of disappointing their father. I know it will be asked, he was raised by both parents, the youngest of 4 kids, 2 sisters & 1 brother. I felt like I was raising 3 kids, our 2 & him. Even now he asks me things or my opinion on things because I read & investigate things because he doesn't want to waste him time in finding those things out & this even in regards to who to vote for in elections.

In my own childhood my father took the time to have fun with my siblings & me, yet he also taught us that there was a time & place for everything. He disciplined us when we needed it, comforted us when we needed it & played with us. We've gone to work with both parents & gave them both the respect that they deserved & would never think of causing problems at their work for it definitely meant a sound spanking when we got home. That is one thing that I think is sorely missing in today's parenting, stop sparing the rod on those asses. I'm not saying going overboard, but a few sound swacks on the ass doesn't hurt, it definitely didn't hurt our generation when we were growing up.

Like I said, I respect your opinion but I just disagree because of my own personal experience.

I wish you well.
Falaria

_____________________________

--- Look around at the pure, unblemished, pristine snow, then choose a path and make it............. your own. ---

(in reply to Nephilim)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/3/2010 7:13:48 AM

Nephilim

Posts: 143
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline

Cherylmazana,

LOL, great illustration, you and I certainly are not equals, one point that Gor makes that we agree on. As far as mediocrity, that is the effect of catering to the sweet little darlings and making sure they are occupied as not to be underfoot and attention seeking while others are working and adopting philosophies and bending them to support all of the common cultural values that secular western society holds; differentiation only to create subgroups and not for the actual value of the philosophy.

Falaria

So, we are in agreement, your ex should have been a more strict disciplinarian (more accurately better trainer/teacher/parent). I don't think you said that you disagree that most women cater, you only said you didn't. Which is great and I agree whole-heartedly with your approach. I also never said men shouldn't play with children. Someone else suggested that if a woman is saying bad things about you after a breakup, you should attempt to bribe the kids or be the "fun dad" in your encounters with them. I only suggested that, if your encounters are limited, your time would be used more wisely to show responsibility, and how a man should be, rather than playing and attempting to please them. If you have your kids only on weekends and holidays, then you should, in the time you have, teach them the important things, not bother with their judgment of you as stern or be petty and worry about what their mother says to them and not try hard to be liked. Live your own life as you should, and children will see and respect that.

I also agree with corporal punishment. When children are taught it is wrong for them to be punished physically and that they can do as they please (which is how many wish to raise their children "to be free spirited"), they then wish to stand in the face of authority and fact and try to tell it what it should be. They don't realize that no matter how much the train on the tracks, should turn or stop, it won't and it is your responsibility to get out of the way.

< Message edited by Nephilim -- 3/3/2010 7:28:39 AM >

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/3/2010 7:00:01 PM

Falaria

Posts: 119
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline

Nephilim,

I agree with what you said and after going back to re-read what you wrote I see it differently than I did last night. I need to be like others and not respond to something when my mental facilities aren't completely on (especially after a long day of work then a long evening of helping with homework), if I had my response would have been slightly different.

My oldest lives with her father, as she is over 18 and has him wrapped around her finger. My youngest lives with me and goes to dad on the weekends. I watch what I say around our kids and when I do say something that I shouldn't I just apologize to them and say that I am speaking out of frustration. They both know that I am the one who has always looked out for their well being, safety and will do anything to protect them. I've called the police when needed and filed restraining orders to keep an ex-boyfriend away while their dad's attitude was more of "Did you really need to do this and I hope my parents do hear about this." Yes, I thought that was a strange attitude for him to have and my family said I did the right thing. My brother even backed me with what I did and as a police officer he sees too many instances where the parents should have done what I did. Anyway that is beside the point.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the misunderstanding.

I wish you well.

Falaria

_____________________________

--- Look around at the pure, unblemished, pristine snow, then choose a path and make it............. your own. ---

(in reply to Nephilim)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/4/2010 3:24:24 PM

Aswad

Posts: 6619
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: online

Hey, Cheryl.

I wasn't targetting anyone specifically, in part because the degree varied between posters. Going back, I read you specifically as concerned, and as having a view of things that I don't relate to as entirely factual, though not such that I would care to debate it in depth, with a small pinch of the conservative. However, I read at least two other posters as being outright off the rails, swept away by the undertow of gynophobia into the murky woods of "oh noez, the sky will surely fall!"

I hope that clarifies.

Incidentally, I believe Taking Children Seriously could be adapted to a Gorean framework.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 3/4/2010 3:26:04 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/4/2010 8:18:00 PM

Cherylmazana

Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline

Thanks for the reply Aswad,

The problem with forums such as this is that because they cover so many varied subjects its usually easier to generalize and give sweeping statements rather than long in depth specific statements with case studies in which people’s eyes turn blank and their minds melt down. Also the experience varies from culture or subculture to culture making what is valid for one unusual for another.

Lately I am just having fun.

As for taking children seriously, refusing to let them grow up and yet constantly exposing them to adult imagery, violence and artificial body image creates a contradiction that makes it almost impossible for most adults who have fallen prey to the “innocence of childhood” fallacy to do so.

Cheryl

(in reply to Aswad)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/5/2010 7:47:53 AM

Aswad

Posts: 6619
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: online

Hey again, Cheryl.

I think you misunderstood me.

I capitalized the words because the phrase is a proper noun, referring to a specific school of thought.

The idea, in its normal form, is based on Popper's thinking, with a model that attempts to take away two prevalent defaults: parental sacrifice and offspring coercion. While there is undoubtedly a touch of the postmodern value set in the normal form, I think it should be readily adaptable to a naturalistic value set, with a suitable emphasis on how individuality, primary freedom and mutually beneficial cooperation are related (e.g. enlightened self interest, etc.). Disciplined will does not arise without some rearing, but it is all too easy for most rearing methodologies to result in discipline without will, or a lack of understanding of how will is interdependent with freedom, etc., etc., and I think this is the most promising candidate school of thought I have seen so far (i.e. it has potential; not sure how well that potential has been realized in practical implementation).

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/5/2010 8:39:59 PM

Cherylmazana

Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline

I will have to look up that school of thought Aswad, as I am not sure it is possible to take away parental sacrifice or offspring coercion due to the nature of human interaction. It is a basic instinct for both children and adults to try to coerce each other and most parents have to sacrifice something even if it’s just freedom.

So until I look it up and see specifically what they are talking about and so can understand where you are coming from there will be misunderstandings.

Cheryl

(in reply to Aswad)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 3/15/2010 5:54:29 PM

MofTampa

Posts: 46
Joined: 11/20/2008
Status: offline

As far as control at work, my work is very free form, so I do take control. Of my own work which is mostly done on an individual basis. Of the projects I'm in. A man has control over many factors of their day especially the choices needed to be made.

In the emergency roadside assistance, I have pulled over to help a person in need only a few times, and only one of those was more serious than I wish it to be. But in that situation, until more properly train individuals arrived I need take what control there was to be taken, but then again... I have some training in this matter formerly working in Hazmat unit.

Luckly, i haven't had to find out what would happen in a violent crime situation. I did used to volunteer in an abuse shelter as such. Mostly of adults who abused their childern. I only was involved in one altercation, and it was thankfully settled with very little violence and outside the child's view.

We control what is to be controlled through our choices. The Gorean philosophy is much intune with nature and therefore knows their are bounds to control. Their is a natural flow to life that also has to take into account, and a true man knows that he can not fight nature of life.

MofTampa

(in reply to Kimveri)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 4/6/2010 3:55:33 AM

Silentrunner26

Posts: 163
Joined: 7/15/2009
Status: offline

I left my ex-girlfriend when she told me she was going to run the house her way and her daughters could do anything they wanted but I had to toe the line with them all . I was the first man to walk out on her and not the other way around . So to punish me she took my wife and our kids and moved . yes I could get them back but at what cost to the kids . I choose to wait and let her come back when she is ready . Knowing the older kids and they way they like to run things it won't be long . The one thing I did to make her so mad she did this was tell her yougest (14) her mom would rather her not have a father than have a real man in the house who will put them one a road to a better life . After 11 months of nothing my wife wrote me asking if I had enough room for her and the kids . It took me along time to learn not to runn after her and it has paid off .

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: Within the Circle of His Steel - 4/10/2010 10:34:04 AM

Wizard18

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline

****Kimveri

As you stated in your original post your native American beliefs show you how the earth is not owned. However you must also have come to know that even or ancestors had tribal lands and borders. Tis the nature of man and woman to feel "ownership" of what is around them. That need has been corrupted in many ways in the history of mankind.

Osiyo girl.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Profile

Post #: 30